Just picked up a Zoom H4n. I have made the decision to shoot sound separate, instead of running my shotgun mic into the Canon T2I. When I compared the difference, the sound recorded with the Zoom and shotgun was better when compared to the Canon and shotgun. Now I have another challenge, syncing sound. What are some things to keep in mind when recording sound separate? Are there any issues when you try to sync Zoom H4N audio to 1080 24p video.
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shooting sound separate
- Thread starter wparrish24
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Generally, record at 48Hz, in mono, invest the 45 bucks in a real slate. People make it sound way harder than it is.
Alcove will chime in I'm sure. he's the pro.
Alcove will chime in I'm sure. he's the pro.
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Phase shifting. Unless the talent never moves an inch their voice will seem to move right and left instead of staying dead center. It's distracting. Dialogue is virtually never recorded in stereo.
Why record at 48khz? The Zoom records up to 96khz, why not record at that freq.? Does it matter if I record 48khz 16bit or 48khz 24bit?
The video will be at 48Hz (maybe Khz, not an audio guy, just a director). If you record at a higher frequency the audio will tend to drift causing your editor to curse you. My sound guy records 48Hz, 24 bit.
The simplest way to ensure sych with picture is to slate each take, with a slateboard operator verbally reading off the scene and take. I hit the mark button on my recorder just prior to slate, and then I've got marks in my audio file so I can jump quickly from take to take, and the audio from the slateboard operator will help confirm I am where I think I am. Then I just line up the spike in the waveform with the slateboard clapper.
DVD audio is 16bit/48kHz, Hi Def is 24bit/96kHz. Yes you can record at 24bit/96kHz; linear time is linear time but the odds of having some drift does increase. I know, it doesn't make sense, but is true none the less.
Announcing scene/take and slating is key to maintaining accurate sync, as are detailed video/audio logs. It was done (and is still done) that way with film since the inception of sync sound back in the late 20's.
There could be some drift over very long takes, but if you have the camera audio as a reference fixing it - cutting out tiny pieces of audio - is not a big chore; I do it often.
The first thing to remember is that recording in stereo can cause phasing issues as Gonzo mentioned; sounds cool in some music situations but can be a disaster when it comes to dialog. Record the audio to both channels of the Zoom, but think of them as mono channels one and two. Set the record level of channel two lower than channel one so if you have transients (loud, distorted audio) on channel one you have some "clean" audio from channel two as a replacement. Use the dialog from channel one ONLY and use the audio from channel two as needed to fix problems with audio channel one. This is standard practice.
Remember to turn off the limiter, compressor and other effects in the Zoom; it was aimed at musicians so has things included to enhance music recording that may present problems with dialog recording. You can't undo it once it has been recorded.
Announcing scene/take and slating is key to maintaining accurate sync, as are detailed video/audio logs. It was done (and is still done) that way with film since the inception of sync sound back in the late 20's.
There could be some drift over very long takes, but if you have the camera audio as a reference fixing it - cutting out tiny pieces of audio - is not a big chore; I do it often.
The first thing to remember is that recording in stereo can cause phasing issues as Gonzo mentioned; sounds cool in some music situations but can be a disaster when it comes to dialog. Record the audio to both channels of the Zoom, but think of them as mono channels one and two. Set the record level of channel two lower than channel one so if you have transients (loud, distorted audio) on channel one you have some "clean" audio from channel two as a replacement. Use the dialog from channel one ONLY and use the audio from channel two as needed to fix problems with audio channel one. This is standard practice.
Remember to turn off the limiter, compressor and other effects in the Zoom; it was aimed at musicians so has things included to enhance music recording that may present problems with dialog recording. You can't undo it once it has been recorded.
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Roll Sound
Rolling
Roll camera
settling... settled.
Scene 11b, take 2, mark it.
Clack!
Rolling
Roll camera
settling... settled.
Scene 11b, take 2, mark it.
Clack!
Gee, I guess that I'm a throw-back...
QUIET!!!!
I SAID QUIET GOD DAMN IT!!!
Settle down people!
Sound!?
Sound... speed!
Camera!?
Camera rolling and.... speed!
Aaaaaaaaaaaand... ACTION!!!
QUIET!!!!
I SAID QUIET GOD DAMN IT!!!
Settle down people!
Sound!?
Sound... speed!
Camera!?
Camera rolling and.... speed!
Aaaaaaaaaaaand... ACTION!!!
I believe that yes, they do use word clock. I know that Sound Devices time code units can sync to word clock.
There's a few things that I miss about the analog age, but waiting for tape rewinds & fast forwards isn't one of them. When I first started audio post we had to use black burst to stay in sync with video decks; what a PITA - thank God for QuickTime!
There's a few things that I miss about the analog age, but waiting for tape rewinds & fast forwards isn't one of them. When I first started audio post we had to use black burst to stay in sync with video decks; what a PITA - thank God for QuickTime!
Speaking of analog, I was watching a Nagra reel to reel field recorder on ebay last week, really nice condition. I would have paid $300, but stopped watching it at $400. I just wanted it for a display piece, though you could sure still shoot a movie with it.
Analog Nagra decks are still highly prized by the guys who go out and collect sound FX. Because of the natural tape compression they're great for sound sources with high initial transients like weapons.
Thanks Alcove,
I totally see how this is a smart idea.
How can I implement this idea, one loud channel one quite channel from the same mic, using my beachtek DXa-6? The beachtek has a mono mode, but the docs suggest that it doesn't work that way....
edit: I just connected up the dxa-6 and confirmed that it does NOT sum inputs, just the outputs in mono mode. So its not useful for this.
Can I just use an xlr Y cable and connect one mic to both inputs of the DXA-6?
like this http://cgi.ebay.com/2-XLR-F-2-XLR-M...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335ba962c5
(FYI: I also have beachtek DXA-10 if that works any differently?)
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You have to set the levels on the recorder (or in this case the camera) to different levels as most budget and mid-priced mixers do not allow for different output levels.
If the camera or recorder will not allow for different input levels that may be a work-around. Be sure that the output is in stereo mode. You should also be careful of hums and other problems, and do some experimenting prior to using this method on the set to insure that you will not have any phasing problems. I also have no idea how this will affect the phantom power.
I don't know anything about the DXA-10 so I have no idea.