Shooting "Guerilla style" w/out getting sued?

T

TI Irwin

I want to shoot some Guerilla style flicks. Because, well, I'm poor and I can't afford sets. I want to do this in a few US cities.

Any tips on doing this without pissing off too many people? I am willing to bend some laws, and I'm willing to adhere to others if they won't cost me boatloads?

I'm big on the action genre, so I would probably have some pretty intense scenes, but still low budget - so no explosions or car chases. Also any ideas on how to write such a film?

I wrote a short based on a (fictional) court case because I *though* I could do that cheaply. Turns out the court needs proof of insurance and a $500 damage disposition fee. I'm still planning on doing the film, but for future reference I want to plan out something I can shoot without the "blessing" of any higher powers. Any suggestions?
 
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bird said:
Here's a thought...why not start at the very beginning? Post this short script of yours. We can critique the skeleton and, then, perhaps our more seasoned filmmakers can make shot/scene suggestions which may eliminate the need for shots on the run. There's always a creative answer to an economic conundrum.
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Good thought, but I can't do that for two reasons.
1.) The script isn't copyrighted yet.
2.) The script involving guns hasn't been written yet. I was just brainstorming.

For the written script, I need a courtroom. Any ideas on doing that inexpensively or free?
 
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I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so sorry if I repeat what has already been pointed out.

Though I have no experience with asking for courtrooms, I'd suggest you simply make a call and ask the first person on the phone what you'd have to do to be allowed to film there and who the person in charge to allow or forbid to shoot there is.
For one of my short films I had to shoot in a train and on a platform, I really considered shooting without permission, but people told me to try to get an official permission to shoot, because people often get really really angry when someone shoots without permission. I wrote an E-Mail and got no answer, after two weeks I wrote another E-Mail and still got no answer. Then I called and asked politely about information concerning filming on property of the Austrian Railways, the person on the phone told me who was in charge, and that I should get in touch with this very person and two hours later I had the permission without paying a cent. My experience is that most people are very generous when you tell them that you're a student or no-budget filmmaker, as long as you don't criticise or make fun of the institution that allowed you to shoot on their property.

Just something I want to add: be as honest as possible, tell the person what the film is about, why you need the courtroom, what the "point" of your film is; basically tell them everything they want to know about the film.
 
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bhikkhu said:
I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so sorry if I repeat what has already been pointed out.

Though I have no experience with asking for courtrooms, I'd suggest you simply make a call and ask the first person on the phone what you'd have to do to be allowed to film there and who the person in charge to allow or forbid to shoot there is.
For one of my short films I had to shoot in a train and on a platform, I really considered shooting without permission, but people told me to try to get an official permission to shoot, because people often get really really angry when someone shoots without permission. I wrote an E-Mail and got no answer, after two weeks I wrote another E-Mail and still got no answer. Then I called and asked politely about information concerning filming on property of the Austrian Railways, the person on the phone told me who was in charge, and that I should get in touch with this very person and two hours later I had the permission without paying a cent. My experience is that most people are very generous when you tell them that you're a student or no-budget filmmaker, as long as you don't criticise or make fun of the institution that allowed you to shoot on their property.

Just something I want to add: be as honest as possible, tell the person what the film is about, why you need the courtroom, what the "point" of your film is; basically tell them everything they want to know about the film.
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I have only asked one courtroom so far, but they require proof of insurance and a $500 damage fee. I can't afford those things.

I wanted to film a very serious and realistic group of scenes in the courthouse. In America, few people want to give away anything for free unfortunately.
 
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Unfortunately, you'll be hard-pressed to find a location - particularly a publicly-owned one - that will forgo the insurance requirement. It may seem expensive, but if something happens you'll find it's a helluva lot cheaper than paying for damages yourself. Bite the bullet and find the money.

I've shot many a zero-budget flick in my day, but always ALWAYS bought insurance, even though it often took up most of the budget.
 
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TI Irwin said:
I have only asked one courtroom so far, but they require proof of insurance and a $500 damage fee. I can't afford those things.

I wanted to film a very serious and realistic group of scenes in the courthouse. In America, few people want to give away anything for free unfortunately.
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Totally not true. Americans give more in private charity than ALL OTHER NATIONS COMBINED. Do the research. When you treat people with respect, tell the the truth they will help you. Everyone loves the movies!

A court room, or any public office, has a higher expectation of liability. Everyone loves to sue the government, and they have so much red tape they cant really get past it.

Just yesterday I stooped at an air soft store to ask about rentals for my movie. I now have FREE USE of the facilities (arena offices, etc) FREE use of the gear they have (prop guns and camo gear) just because I asked.
 
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2001 Productions said:
Unfortunately, you'll be hard-pressed to find a location - particularly a publicly-owned one - that will forgo the insurance requirement. It may seem expensive, but if something happens you'll find it's a helluva lot cheaper than paying for damages yourself. Bite the bullet and find the money.

I've shot many a zero-budget flick in my day, but always ALWAYS bought insurance, even though it often took up most of the budget.
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That is good advice, but I am very poor (I have less than $200 in my account...) and the money I manage to scrape together for my short I'm going to have to put into buying my camera, computer, and editing software. That alone is going to be difficult and adding insurance on top of that further delays the project. A

Now anything can happen, but the script for the court film is all dialogue and no stunts. I wrote it specifically for that reason because I can't afford to do special effects the way I want to. (I'm not a fan of CG unless it's so good that I can't distinguish it from reality. BlackHawkDown to give an example. I'm good at 3D CAD, but not THAT good. lol)

Now somebody recommended a library for a mock courtroom. I was hoping that someone else might have other options that I could look into. The nearest public library to me is an hour away... (God I miss the convenience of city life) I'd be traveling to the courthouse anyways, but I'm just saying I would appreciate any other ideas I probably overlooked. I keep coming up with nada...:huh:

And anyone who with or without insurance has shot something without paying to use the location on an American set, I would appreciate knowing what sort of location that was.

I'm not lacking in creativity so I'm pretty sure I could come up with a story I like for any random location. (I prefer urban setting because it's what I know if you haven't read preceding posts.)
 
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Check out the Dave Chappelle movie "Half Baked," directed by Tamra Davis.

No, seriously.

At one point the Harland Williams character appears before a judge in a courtroom. Watch it carefully...and try to tell me it couldn't be accomplished in some random corner of any random room with a couple of nice pieces of lumber as scenery.

That film is full of low-budget solutions. At another point they sell a crowded rave/nightclub with maybe 7 extras and one carefully placed camera, probably the same room they shot the courtroom scene.

All you need is a room! Then fill it with a couple of conference tables and folding chairs, perhaps rented or borrowed from the church or school. You need a judge's bench, and for this you might need a carpenter and some lumber from the lumberyard, or perhaps on old-fashioned console TV from Goodwill with the screen covered up and supported on stilts.

Filmmaking is essentially nothing more problem solving...end of. What are some of your ideas to sell a courtroom?
 
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What is you exact little town?

(two weeks ago shot a short at a restaurant, liquor store, and apartment) all free, all with signed permission and release forms...

Im hot on the locations train this and next week. Im tellin ya, you can find free locations EASY.. Just open your mind a bit.

Alternatives to court house..... ??? hum......

how about a Jehovah witness kingdom hall or a Mormon church.. both have a somewhat less than typical churchy look to there congregation meeting houses.. (just don't tell either that your talking to the other, no love loss there!)

You could have fun with technology. Have the trial be via closed circuit TV. That way its just a bunch of head shots of the actors in costume, no jury etc..



Picture this..
the accused in chains, and his attorney sit in a plain undecorated office in front of a bank of TV monitors. One for the prosecutor, one for the judge, etc..


I kinda like this idea, lends a very impersonal feeling to the justice system..


Also, you never see an entire Court room, just bits that look court room like..



hope this useful,
 
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Uranium City said:
Check out the Dave Chappelle movie "Half Baked," directed by Tamra Davis.

No, seriously.

At one point the Harland Williams character appears before a judge in a courtroom. Watch it carefully...and try to tell me it couldn't be accomplished in some random corner of any random room with a couple of nice pieces of lumber as scenery.

That film is full of low-budget solutions. At another point they sell a crowded rave/nightclub with maybe 7 extras and one carefully placed camera, probably the same room they shot the courtroom scene.

All you need is a room! Then fill it with a couple of conference tables and folding chairs, perhaps rented or borrowed from the church or school. You need a judge's bench, and for this you might need a carpenter and some lumber from the lumberyard, or perhaps on old-fashioned console TV from Goodwill with the screen covered up and supported on stilts.

Filmmaking is essentially nothing more problem solving...end of. What are some of your ideas to sell a courtroom?
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The courtroom is an integral part of the story. I hear your advice and IF I can do it that way, I will. But I won't shoot this in a house or somewhere that won't look right. It should also be noted that I want to take this piece to Sundance, so I can't afford to cut corners because I already know how tough my intended competition and audience is.

What the story is REALLY about is a heist. I won't reveal that until the film's conclusion. The courtroom is ESSENTIAL to distracting the audience from what's actually going on so I can hit them with an effective twist. So I wrote a detailed and intensive court case for deceptive illusion, as well as for plot points. For that, I need the viewer to be visually engaged enough to take them (visually) to a real trial as it unfolds.

I can carpenter things up myself but again, an excessive amount of lumber isn't cost effective. I think I could build a judge's bench but I need wood on the walls and a large enough room that it looks 100% authentic.

I know I'm asking for a lot with this one, but I like the script enough that I'll stick it out and make sure I do it right. It has to be perfect because the ultimate goal here is to give myself credibility as a director so I can direct my feature instead of just selling the script and letting someone else do it.

Now I realize also that I can write other cheaper scripts, and I'm doing that too. But this one I like quite a bit already and I refuse to abandon the idea.

And what's with all the stoner movies? You guys trying making me want to go back to past ways? lol
 
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wheatgrinder said:
What is you exact little town?

(two weeks ago shot a short at a restaurant, liquor store, and apartment) all free, all with signed permission and release forms...

Im hot on the locations train this and next week. Im tellin ya, you can find free locations EASY.. Just open your mind a bit.

Alternatives to court house..... ??? hum......

how about a Jehovah witness kingdom hall or a Mormon church.. both have a somewhat less than typical churchy look to there congregation meeting houses.. (just don't tell either that your talking to the other, no love loss there!)

You could have fun with technology. Have the trial be via closed circuit TV. That way its just a bunch of head shots of the actors in costume, no jury etc..



Picture this..
the accused in chains, and his attorney sit in a plain undecorated office in front of a bank of TV monitors. One for the prosecutor, one for the judge, etc..


I kinda like this idea, lends a very impersonal feeling to the justice system..


Also, you never see an entire Court room, just bits that look court room like..



hope this useful,
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Laurie MO. Population: 660

Point taken about locations. I think most locations wouldn't be too bad, but a legit courtroom is hard to get/fake. And that's visually a great idea, sort of reminds me of the Architect's room in the second Matrix film, but my script is based on reality and the US justice system so I have to be accurate to the ins and outs of a real life court-case in the states.

I DO need the entire court room. More than just authenticity, the court scenes take up well over half of the movie so I'll be doing some moving shots and quite a bit of steadycam rather than close-ups and simple pans. Again, this is intended for Sundance.
 
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are you not going to make your movie if you cant find a court house?

solve the problem. Nothing is more boring than a wide shot of a court room.. its all about close ups, ots and reaction shots.. pick any court drama movie.. pick it apart shot by shot for each shot where we see an entire court room, you have a 100 others..
 
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Do you want an authentic courtroom or a pretty one? They don't all look like the Supreme Court, so making it look 100% if you need to use a set may not be all that difficult.

edit: Not related to the guerrilla side of it but, my two cents, plot wise, is that I would be extremely bored if from moment 1 all I'm watching is a legal court case unfold. I don't care how good of a writer anyone is. All those movies that you remember as being all in the courtroom, actually have a lot of plot where we become endeared to the character and their cause before they even get to the courtroom. Not trying to be harsh, just my opinion.
 
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TI Irwin said:
I am very poor (I have less than $200 in my account...) and the money I manage to scrape together for my short I'm going to have to put into buying my camera, computer, and editing software.
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TI Irwin said:
I want to take this piece to Sundance, so I can't afford to cut corners because I already know how tough my intended competition and audience is.
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Frankly, the above two statements seem rather contradictory -- you don't have any money but can't afford to cut corners? I'll be interested to see how you reconcile those circumstances.
 
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I've been searching for a way to say what 2001 just said. If your destination is Sundance, you need to start fundraising. Don't worry about locations (or about buying a camera and computer) yet.

When you're ready, seek out a Director of Photography who'll have his own camera(s).

And for that location, really...any large room will work, but to sell it as a courtroom you need the proper props and scenery. If I remember the O.J. Simpson trial correctly, which I hope I don't, that courtroom was very similar to a high school cafetorium. Contact an old high school teacher and see if you can get into the gym on a Saturday.
 
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wheatgrinder said:
also
look up "Jackson county historical society" they have a gift shop and archives in an old unused courthouse in independence..
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Thanks. That sounds quite viable for what I need.

wheatgrinder said:
are you not going to make your movie if you cant find a court house?

solve the problem. Nothing is more boring than a wide shot of a court room.. its all about close ups, ots and reaction shots.. pick any court drama movie.. pick it apart shot by shot for each shot where we see an entire court room, you have a 100 others..
Click to expand...

My shots are going to be similar to the style of Boston Legal, with my own style. BL uses the entire room because they film from many perspectives, close-ups, and reaction shots. What I need the whole room for is the stuff in the background, not for a wide shot that doesn't move.

Dreadylocks said:
Do you want an authentic courtroom or a pretty one? They don't all look like the Supreme Court, so making it look 100% if you need to use a set may not be all that difficult.

edit: Not related to the guerrilla side of it but, my two cents, plot wise, is that I would be extremely bored if from moment 1 all I'm watching is a legal court case unfold. I don't care how good of a writer anyone is. All those movies that you remember as being all in the courtroom, actually have a lot of plot where we become endeared to the character and their cause before they even get to the courtroom. Not trying to be harsh, just my opinion.
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Pretty or authentic, as long as it looks convincing as a modern inner-city courtroom.

You're killing me... I'm just going to have to finish the script and copyright it to show you the story. From the start, the viewer knows that the lead character (who is on trial) is innocent but the evidence against him is substantial. And the audience will care about him as well. I may not be the best filmmaker overall, but I'm an ace at writing. :)
 
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2001 Productions said:
Frankly, the above two statements seem rather contradictory -- you don't have any money but can't afford to cut corners? I'll be interested to see how you reconcile those circumstances.
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wheatgrinder said:
why thats guerrilla style of course.. everything free and awesome! ;)
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Cute, but money doesn't always mean everything. I have enough skill (in my opinon) that I will make an astonishing movie without having to pay boatloads for it and by doing the work myself. Have a little faith until you can prove to me that I can't do it.

Uranium City said:
I've been searching for a way to say what 2001 just said. If your destination is Sundance, you need to start fundraising. Don't worry about locations (or about buying a camera and computer) yet.

When you're ready, seek out a Director of Photography who'll have his own camera(s).

And for that location, really...any large room will work, but to sell it as a courtroom you need the proper props and scenery. If I remember the O.J. Simpson trial correctly, which I hope I don't, that courtroom was very similar to a high school cafetorium. Contact an old high school teacher and see if you can get into the gym on a Saturday.
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I'll be my own DOP Again, until I show you evidence that I'm incapable of producing something of quality, then cut me a break. I might just be that damn good :D

My brother has a HD Panasonic camera that's very nice as well as the steadycam system I mentioned earlier.

Thanks for that, I'll youtube the trial and see what I can find.
 
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