scene?

[dvdguy]

hey,

I have a scene Im currently working on. Its basically a morning scene where the sun is just rising and isnt high.
Im using a 500watt halogen worklight with a dimmer as the KEY light. Im using two 500watt halogen worklights as the BACKGROUND light (one with a dimmer which I lowered the intensity AND for the second one I just bounced off the wall so it gave pretty much an even light). The BACKGROUND light is lower in intensity opposed to the KEY light which is more intense so that it gives that 3d feel and DOF. BTW, im going more for a dramatic look (thats why I didnt use any fill light)

1. However Im wondering whether I should use a backlight or not?
2. Is what I have now enough?

Alright, criticize me!

 

[Zensteve]

im going more for a dramatic look (thats why I didnt use any fill light)

I'm not sure how lack of fill = more dramatic.

Just for a practical matter, the computer monitor alone could be reason/excuse to add a little something there.

As for the questions:

1) Yes (if that looks good)

2) No. Your face & forearms are terribly mismatched, on the right.

 

[dvdguy]

I'm not sure how lack of fill = more dramatic.

Just for a practical matter, the computer monitor alone could be reason/excuse to add a little something there.

As for the questions:

1) Yes (if that looks good)

2) No. Your face & forearms are terribly mismatched, on the right.

Well, I read that if your lighting ratio is like 2:1, 3:1 and more.. the darker one side gets you get a more dramatic feel. Thats why I didnt use fill. But Ill try experimenting with fill anyway.

Ok, as for the backlight. Where should it be put? Cause the direction of the KEY is from the side. So I presume youre gonna answer hehind me If so, does that count for every scene?

Ok, terribly mismatched? Could you explain further or how could I get rid of that look? Cause im not really sure what you mean exactly.

I appreciate the honest answer thanks.

 

[wheatgrinder]

Your not a "real" morning person are you?

Get up tomorrow BEFORE sun up and go sit in room with a eastward facing window.. Have a cup a hot liquid and perceive..

now, make it look BETTER than reality.. looking like REAL morning will be kinda dull..


Morning sun can be dazzling bright, perhaps metaphorically you may want that hyped in your story..

other things that visually say "good morning sunshine" to me are

haze, diffusion (smoke) ... if your character is a "smoker" perfect, Iv yet to meet a smoker who doesn't light up first thing..

morning props.. cup o joe, news papers etc.. all fill in our expectations of a movie morning..

light coming from BELOW the subject, just a little, though technically maybe an impossibility for the story location still makes me feel like its morning..

also consider a cookie to give some shape to the light..

the sun low on the horizon means LOOONG shadows.. your shadows seem kinda short

 

[dvdguy]

Hi! Morning person? nope.
And yeah, I got up today and took some pics in the same angle. Forgot to mention, Im just trying to experiment with lighting, no other props on the table etc. Im trying to make it seem as if its morning sunlight without the use of props. (newspapers etc.)

Cause I know, if I do that, then props are just gonna make it even better and more natural when I add them in later

Yeah, judging from the picture I took this morning, I have to make the shadows a bit more "soft". That means ill probably use some sort of diffusion or make my own SoftBox cause I cant really afford it now. The source light before seemed too hard.

What I took today (picture), ill try to reconstruct it Ill probably add in something more, depending on my needs (more of a dramatic look, etc.)

Ill use cookies aswell. (its basically gonna be a window frame) Made it yesterday out of wood. So it should work.

The stupid thing is, my room is kinda tight. Its gonna be a bit of a challenge, but im down for it. Thanks Wheat!!

 

[2001 Productions]

My take, fwiw:

You don't really need back light because you have a dark subject against a light background. Back light is primarily used for separating the foreground from the background.

That said, your background is wholly uninteresting. It's basically a flat wall. If you can't dress it up a little, consider throwing some shadows onto it -- even if it's just the old "light through a venetian blind" pattern. It really needs something back there. I'd also hang a picture on the wall or something like that. Photography is more than just lighting.

Also, as Steve said, throw a little highlight onto the back of the computer monitor. Since it is so prominent in the shot, it's obviously an important element in the scene.

Third, is there a reason your camera is looking down at the actor? I'm not saying that's necessarily wrong, but it does weaken him. If that isn't your intent, then put the lens down at his eye level, or even lower. If it is your intent to make him seem weak, then ignore this last part.

 

[wheatgrinder]

What I like about the OP shot is that it DOES trigger lots of story ideas in my imagination ...

"whats going on in this shot?"


Has the guy been up all night writing his memoirs?

Has he just logged into his crackbook page and found necked pictures of his wife posted by his best friend?

I need to know!

 

[dvdguy]

Hey everyone! Ill post some pics tomorrow stay tuned.. Ive taken all of your critics. SO thanks

 

[polfilmblog]

Halogen (2700K) will give blue channel noise, especially if there isn't much of it. Check your blue channel.

Gelling bluer may help. Different lights will help. Halogen doesn't cut well with real sunlight.

 

[dvdguy]

Hi everyone! OK, so I made a few changes from the the lastly taken pic! Changes: -I made my very own home-made softbox with a 500 Watt worklight as KEY.
-I made a huge bounce card which I placed at a 45° degree angle close to the ceiling and placed a 500 Watt worklight on the ground so it can bounce the light on the opposite wall as BACKGROUND light.
-I made sure my there are no mismatches. Atleast, so far that I know
-Highlighted the PC screen cause I noticed I left that out.
Next time Im gonna add some more props but right now other things concern me ...

HOWEVER, I stumbled on a problem.. Im basically shooting in my room which is kind of tight for lighting - meaning I wanted to use a "cookie" of a window frame (+) but the light was really really soft - too soft, to even notice that shadow of the frame in the BACKGROUND. thats because of the spacial relation between the KEY and wall. Obviously the light needs to be further away so I could see that window frame (cookie) on the BACKGROUND.

I know I know, I couldve placed the "cookie" on the BACKGROUND light, but that would look really odd because it would show a shadow from a different angle than the KEY light. Because normally I want the shadow from the sun (KEY light). God, I hope that makes any sense whatsoever

Dont know what to do..should I break the walls to get more space? lol. Cause I really need that window frame looking sharp like it looks on that pic I took one early morning

oh yeah, P.S.: now that I used a softbox, I shouldve placed it closer to me so I could have that same intensity, yet remain a softer, more defused light. It didnt reach me untill now OR I could just buy a more intense light ( 1000 watt) cause you can noticed the intensity went lower. gosh..

What do you guys think?

 

[Buddy Greenfield]

Might not be perfect just yet, but to me it’s far better than the 1st image.

I wouldn’t mind seeing maybe a little picture frame by the bed or a mirror or something in the background that is catching a reflection of light which represents the window.

Could be just the light through a window reflected, or light and window shape, or both plus what might be discerned in the reflection, like drapes or blinds or panels of the window frame.

-Thanks-

 

[dvdguy]

Might not be perfect just yet, but to me it’s far better than the 1st image.

I wouldn’t mind seeing maybe a little picture frame by the bed or a mirror or something in the background that is catching a reflection of light which represents the window.

Could be just the light through a window reflected, or light and window shape, or both plus what might be discerned in the reflection, like drapes or blinds or panels of the window frame.

-Thanks-

Hmm, I appreciate the honesty . Yeah Ive been trying that, but as I wrote its hard to do that just yet, because the "window" (SOFTBOX as KEY) is pretty close to me cause of lack of room and it wont look like a window. But ill think of something hopefully... I agree, something is missing in the background.

 

[Zensteve]

I agree, something is missing in the background.

On a totally unrelated note - it's missing any kind of interesting wall decoration. Bland & dull, it doesn't look "lived in". Decorate your room, dude.

 

[polfilmblog]

Dude...

This is your blue channel:

 

[dvdguy]

Dude...

This is your blue channel:

wow.... like WOW. Ok, just so you know: I havent reached that kind of experience with channel noises in particular.

How'd you get this btw? I see what you meant, but I cant help it right now. I dont have a wide variety of choices here.

Im gonna buy some gels and some stronger lights soon btw. Im not an expert in this field, but I think it has something to do with blue, red and green.

Gelling blue till its - what, 3200 K? I mean, now its about 2700 K as you mentioned. Would that solve it? thanks.

 

[dvdguy]

On a totally unrelated note - it's missing any kind of interesting wall decoration. Bland & dull, it doesn't look "lived in". Decorate your room, dude.

Lol, Zensteve - you should see my other 3 walls well, I didnt leave anything hanging cause it had nothing to do with my story. Im gonna find some props to fit the story well.

 

[chilipie]

Im gonna buy some gels and some stronger lights soon btw. Im not an expert in this field, but I think it has something to do with blue, red and green.

Gelling blue till its - what, 3200 K? I mean, now its about 2700 K as you mentioned. Would that solve it? thanks.

Tungsten lights are usually around 3200°K, and daylight around 5600°K. Be aware that you lose a huge amount of light from daylight conversion gels (nearly two stops), so a 1000 watt light will be like a 300 watt daylight balanced lamp.

A practical light in the background could be quite nice - you can throw some interesting patterns on the back wall, and maybe even use it to motivate a backlight. I'd be tempted to gel the light on camera right with a half CTB (colour to blue - it'll be halfway between daylight and tungsten), and white balance to tungsten if I did that. Have a play around and see what you can come up with!

 

[dvdguy]

Tungsten lights are usually around 3200°K, and daylight around 5600°K. Be aware that you lose a huge amount of light from daylight conversion gels (nearly two stops), so a 1000 watt light will be like a 300 watt daylight balanced lamp.

A practical light in the background could be quite nice - you can throw some interesting patterns on the back wall, and maybe even use it to motivate a backlight. I'd be tempted to gel the light on camera right with a half CTB (colour to blue - it'll be halfway between daylight and tungsten), and white balance to tungsten if I did that. Have a play around and see what you can come up with!

Yeah, I hear ya. Hmm, how about just holding a piece of gel infront of the lens and then just white balance? Would that work better? I mean, I dont think I should lose that amount of light then. .. Now I see why those proffesional daylight lights are so damn expensive LOL.

Halfway between daylight and tungsten? Yeah but thats what - noon or somethin like morning? Im looking for that morning effect. But yeah, I have to try it myself to see what you mean

Ill keep posting new improvements THanks!!

oh, and a side question: why does my halogen worklight (2700 K) give so much blue channel noise (so many grains)? ok, figured out I need stronger lights...

 

[learnfilmonline]

That is absolutely interesting. I really like the picture shared by wheatgrinder. It's really cool and excellent capture of the light rays.