Save Point ad no 1

I feel pretty strongly about the phrase "at broadcast quality" ... Here's why. There are about a million little animation projects out there. You've likely never seen any of them. You know why? Because they aren't created at broadcast quality.
When I hear this kind of phrase, it's an immediate warning to expect some kind of cover-up because (as @indietalk says) that level of quality is/should be the base line, and if it has to be spelt out, you know there's something wrong. Kinda like politicians saying "we believe in free and fair elections" while enacting voter suppression legislation.

And "broadcast quality" isn't really that great a standard either. I've seen plenty of dreadful broadcasts, with crappy sound, glitchy camerawork, woeful scripting and obvious "ran out of money" botch jobs on post-production.

How is that different than an iphone?

It's a phone, that allows you to make calls. yes. But it's also ...

You'd do well to take a lesson from Apple. They don't try to explain all the inner workings of an iPhone, no more than your local water supply company tries to explain how the stuff gets into you glass. Neither do they try to explain how the whole company works to the folks they're selling iPhones to, nor even to the software developers they employ.

I'm reminded of this passage from Doctor Who/S1E1-Rose
Do you know like we were saying, about the earth revolving? It's like when you're a kid, the first time they tell you that the world is turning and you just can't quite believe it 'cause everything looks like it's standing still. I can feel it - the turn of the earth. The ground beneath our feet is spinning at a thousand miles an hour. The entire planet is hurtling around the sun at sixty seven thousand miles an hour. And I can feel it. We're falling through space, you and me, clinging to the skin of this tiny little world. And, if we let go...
You're trying too hard to get us all to feel the turn of the earth; you'd do better to realise that most of us are Pudding-brains, and target your pitches accordingly. :secret:
 

indietalk

IndieTalk Founder
Staff Member
Admin
I was thinking about all the terms you were going through in trying to figure out what to call SP. The newest was show. I don't really like show. And game, I think is too limiting. I do like series. And as long as the series is never "canceled" it takes care of your "endless" claim. I also like interactive. I understand CYOA is a trademark. So I just stopped by to post this:

Interactive Animated Series

I think that is nice and tidy as well as instantly informative.
 

Nate North

Business Member
indieBIZ
When I hear this kind of phrase, it's an immediate warning to expect some kind of cover-up because (as @indietalk says) that level of quality is/should be the base line, and if it has to be spelt out, you know there's something wrong. Kinda like politicians saying "we believe in free and fair elections" while enacting voter suppression legislation.
I suppose I can see that angle. But I think you've been watching too much internet if you think that there is an international coverup going on at a volunteer operation making a cartoon on youtube. What is it you think we are covering up? lol.

But here is what I really have to disagree with. The idea that youtube developers or indie filmmakers consider broadcast quality as a default. Lol, Rofl. Have you been to a film festival?

Look, I've also seen mistakes on tv shows, and sometimes they broadcast something I think they know is bad, just to fill time late at night, or to give the network chiefs nephew a break, whatever, but in general, I think we all know what broadcast quality looks like. It varies from country to country, so in the US it probably gravitates toward 3 million per hour, and on the BBC maybe 500k an hour. My job is to equivocate what people are used to seeing, and to do it on a shoestring budget.

A picture is worth a thousand words they say, so I'll give you some WIP shots from out current development. These shots are getting close to what our final quality will look like. The following are all original, no stock except for one spaceship that's licensed.

Comp 1 (0;00;00;00)_55.jpg

Comp 1 (0;00;00;00)_54.jpg
Comp 1 (0;00;00;00)_56.jpg

Comp 1 (0;00;00;00)_52.jpg
Comp 1 (0;00;00;00)_51.jpg
Comp 1 (0;00;00;00)_45.jpg

Comp 1 (0;00;00;00)_50.jpg
Comp 1 (0;00;00;00)_42.jpg
Comp 1 (0;00;00;00)_29.jpg
 

Attachments

  • Comp 1 (0;00;00;00)_53.jpg
    Comp 1 (0;00;00;00)_53.jpg
    69.7 KB · Views: 15
Last edited:

indietalk

IndieTalk Founder
Staff Member
Admin
I totally agree with dropping "broadcast quality." It makes me think TV, antennas, and old tech. Plus, as mentioned, quality is a marketing gimmick. I can buy a bag of beef jerky with a blue award symbol in the corner that says "Premium Quality." WTF is that? Who cares? Just tell me what IS IN IT! Like your project. Just tell me WHAT IT IS! :)
 

Nate North

Business Member
indieBIZ
I totally agree with dropping "broadcast quality." It makes me think TV, antennas, and old tech. Plus, as mentioned, quality is a marketing gimmick. I can buy a bag of beef jerky with a blue award symbol in the corner that says "Premium Quality." WTF is that? Who cares? Just tell me what IS IN IT! Like your project. Just tell me WHAT IT IS! :)
I think I was posting the reply to this at the same time you were posting.

here's what I think people would imagine if I didn't specify any QA standard. I found this image by searching "Top 10 animation channels on youtube" This was No. 1.

1626996821138.png


You can see the look I'm achieving in the post above. It's different. So the comments that say everyone is already expecting it to look professional by default are way off what I'm seeing here. If I say nothing about trying to achieve a higher standard, I believe this is what people will picture.
 

indietalk

IndieTalk Founder
Staff Member
Admin
So what does your image vs. that image have to do with broadcasting? Seems both may look fine in a broadcast. Are you trying to say your images are more elaborate? I'm really confused as to why you are using the word broadcast for that.
 

indietalk

IndieTalk Founder
Staff Member
Admin
What's odd is, my take on your posts is you are saying because your images look more human, they are more "broadcast quality" and superior to cartoony images that were actually broadcasted like Johnny Bravo.

1626997976480.png
 

Nate North

Business Member
indieBIZ
So what does your image vs. that image have to do with broadcasting? Seems both may look fine in a broadcast. Are you trying to say your images are more elaborate? I'm really confused as to why you are using the word broadcast for that.
ok, for one thing, look back, you are the one that suggested the word broadcast. Check you post history. It originally said television quality, and you suggested that I change it to broadcast. I thought that sounded like a good suggestion, so I changed it.

as far as what differentiates broadcast quality animation from what I would call amatuer animation, it's a lot of things, and sometimes, it's no things. We all probably grew up watching cartoons that varied a great deal in their quality. Some took a lot of work, some were very lazy. I think of speed racer as one of the examples of a very lazy show, Scooby Doo original was very lazy as well, despite being a great product. Something like the real ghostbusters took a lot more work and effort to pull off. So you could definitely make a case that the term "broadcast quality animation" is psuedo meaningless. A lot of it has to do with the caliber of the VO artists, a topic that we haven't even started into here.

The reason I'm using the word broadcast, or similar phrase TBD, is that I need members to know we are working on something that is intended to be a commercial product. It's not about just messing around, it's not about getting likes, it's about preparing it's members for integration into paying commercial studios. For that to be effective, I need team members to keep their eye on the ball. In this instance, overcoming the challenge of creating a profitable show that is impressive enough to be a resume item hiring studios will respect, and financially successful enough to sustain itself, allowing the aforementioned benefits to actually manifest.

It's not just about image quality, but that does play a significant role. I'm not trying to be arrogant, but yes, I do believe we are developing a visual style that is stronger than our standard youtube competition. That's always the goal right? You compete for market by building a better mousetrap.

The word broadcast that we are currently using is really about the project's potential, not so much about one specific aspect. It's about creating an overall standard that gives team members a resume item that will get them somewhere. I could just say that, but it's pretty wordy for a tagline. lol.
 

indietalk

IndieTalk Founder
Staff Member
Admin
ok, for one thing, look back, you are the one that suggested the word broadcast. Check you post history. It originally said television quality, and you suggested that I change it to broadcast. I thought that sounded like a good suggestion, so I changed it.
Yes I know because "television quality" is worse. This was before I understood the project because it was so confusing I thought it was a TV show being broadcast by your tagline so I said the word broadcast sounds better than television. Now that we got somewhere on understanding what this is, I say remove it. 🤷‍♂️
 

indietalk

IndieTalk Founder
Staff Member
Admin
lol, IMHO Johhny Bravo should have never made it to air.
Looney Tunes, Bugs Bunny, you are trying to use the word broadcast to let people know your images are different?

You are only making our point, because this stuff IS broadcast quality.
lol, IMHO Johhny Bravo should have never made it to air.
Annnnnnd it is BROADCAST QUALITY lol.
 

Nate North

Business Member
indieBIZ
I would say that to be competitive in todays animation market is takes a lot more than it used to. Standards have improved. If you look at shows produced this year, we are actually seeing some really good work. Also, to clear up the issue of platform once and for all, it's native to youtube with ads, after which it will be ported to both mobile OS platforms via a simple wrapper and gui. If it's successful enough, I'll eventually go to Netflix and pitch them on an R rated version of this where I don't have to nerf everything for fear of youtube's mighty demonetization hammer. For now Save Point is strictly PG-13.

Here's a few examples of what I'm looking at for reference when I talk about modern animation at broadcast quality. In my mind this is what I have to compete with, because these are the options people have to choose from now. Examples from 30 years ago are obviously becoming less relevant by the moment.

1626999120702.png


1626999202387.png


1626999319094.png
 
Last edited:

indietalk

IndieTalk Founder
Staff Member
Admin
To be honest when I suggested it I thought you were worried about things like resolution, and proper blacks, and things like that. You said "television quality" and I said broadcast sounds better, but again, I think technologically! Not ANYTHING to do with your images being more human/detailed than a cartoony one. Cartoons exist last time I looked. However, if you like the term and think it means your images are more refined than The Family Guy, I guess, go for it.

quality assurance qa GIF by chuber channel
 

Nate North

Business Member
indieBIZ
You run a film forum, so I expect you've heard this discussion before

What's the most important part of a movie

cinematographer - It's the camera moves

sound guy - sound is half the picture, maybe 80%!!!

writer - none of you would be here without me

investor - no, none of you would be here without ME!!!

editor - you know, star wars, unlike every other movie ever made, was junk before I edited it

musician - try taking the score out, and see how emotive all your money and writing looks now

SFX - people didn't watch Jurassic World for the acting

encoding specialist - it's really all about 4k, 24 fps, and motion blur

actor - I am the most important person here, maybe the most important person ever!!!

Zen Master - Make me one with everything

that should help explain my vauge usage of the word quality. The truth is, it's all of these things, and the chemistry that they have together that makes a good product.

Maybe you're right, maybe there is a better phrase I can use to convey what I'm trying to communicate

I do think that "Interactive Series" is probably emerging as a front runner for that part. I still don't know exactly what phrase I should use to explain that we need to build this at a quality that's competitive with the options viewers have in the modern market.

Still open to suggestions.
 

indietalk

IndieTalk Founder
Staff Member
Admin
I still don't know exactly what phrase I should use to explain that we need to build this at a quality that's competitive with the options viewers have in the modern market.
Dude, once you have product you use that instead of words! So let's say you produce your fist interactive show of the series, or whatever it is. You POST THAT to social, get people to share, and get new recruits based on that! What they are seeing. They don't need words like broadcast down in the description. Maybe that is your dilemma. You are in the early stages without product. I say, just get that product out there.
 

Nate North

Business Member
indieBIZ
To be honest when I suggested it I thought you were worried about things like resolution, and proper blacks, and things like that. You said "television quality" and I said broadcast sounds better, but again, I think technologically! Not ANYTHING to do with your images being more human/detailed than a cartoony one. Cartoons exist last time I looked. However, if you like the term and think it means your images are more refined than The Family Guy, I guess, go for it.

quality assurance qa GIF by chuber channel
just to address that aspect really quickly, it's native 4k, 30 fps, 16x9 motion blur=yes, and I will never be as good as Family guy, lol
 

Nate North

Business Member
indieBIZ
Dude, once you have product you use that instead of words! So let's say you produce your fist interactive show of the series, or whatever it is. You POST THAT to social, get people to share, and get new recruits based on that! What they are seeing. They don't need words like broadcast down in the description. Maybe that is your dilemma. You are in the early stages without product. I say, just get that product out there.
yeah, that really is the issue, and I've always known that. The problem is I don't have funding, and so I'm doing things backwards and wrong for that simple reason. I'm trying to move towards a situation where I can get funding, but like so much of the world, sites like kickstarter are now overrun by people that already have money, tipping the scales in their own favor via advertising, etc. If you are actually poor enough to need crowdfunding, you'll have to wait in line on page 455, behind the likes of Zac Braff.

 

indietalk

IndieTalk Founder
Staff Member
Admin
I wish indie art/music/film was like this battery. I actually really like this battery as well. But they were seeking $100K and it's up to 4.7 mil!
 

Nate North

Business Member
indieBIZ
I do have some hope. Did you ever see this Kickstarter campaign?

It's for a single interactive fiction book, written by one guy. He says up front that the book is already finished, and he doesn't actually need any help. It's a take off of Hamlet, which is what all the kids are into these days. I'm thinking of just writing this guy directly and asking for help. Put that last name advantage to work, lol.

 
Top