I am having a pro production company produce a sizzle reel for a sci-fi TV series I wrote. I am going to use the demo reel to pitch investors and/or crowdfunding to help raise financing for a pilot in the $250k range. Are there resources to learn what kind of return on investment can be expected per episode if the series is picked up by networks, cable channels, VOD, or can receive from sponsors if it goes to web series, etc? I get it there are no guarantees and I get it Hollywood accounting is skewed to screw everybody out of back end points, just ballpark figures for an initial pitch.
Resources for pitching TV pilot to investors
- Thread starter Kingda Ka
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There are not. Because there isn't a general, ball park set of numbers.
Each network and cable channel will have vastly different numbers that
depend on many different factors. And none of those factors are based
on how much you spend on the pilot or per episode.
You can look at general trends using websites like "The Numbers" and
"Rotten Tomatoes" and "Box Office Mojo" but they are generally useless
to investors. What several shows did is not indicative of what yours may
do.
What has the pro prodCo said about this? Is there anyone in the company
with this business knowledge?
Gotcha, kinda what I figured. I just retained the production company this week, so we haven't gotten that far in the conversation. Just getting ahead of myself as usual.
You wouldn't happen to know if sometimes networks pick up series for a specific region or their decisions are nationwide?
A good book, though it's more for film than TV, is Louise Levison's "Filmmakers and Financing: Business Plans for Independents". If you're just starting out in showbiz, like I am, her book is worth a read, for the insights.
Ooooo, that looks like a very great resource. I will definitely have a look at it. My "day job" I own my own C-corp, so I'm somewhat savvy - although, I'm sure there are many here who know more - about how investment works. Just from what I've looked into it so far TV is a bit different than film with the whole sponsorship thing.
That's called syndication. It still happens.
TV is very different than film. A business plan is a business plan is
a business plan. The primary difference is ROI. You could site 100
TV shows that made a hundred million dollars over 10 years and
that is meaningless. Yours may make two hundred million. Or it
may never make anything. There is just no way to make a realistic
prediction of what a TV series will return based on what other series
have returned. Even a huge TV star hot off a hit show is very likely
to fail on their next one.
What you're doing is so new and so untested that there just isn't a
way to determine what a ROI might be. Do you know of any examples
similar to what you're doing?
I totally understand that, TV is a very bizarre business. Even from the outside looking in as an advertiser, the price for the exact same time slot to run your commercial can change from day to day. The algorithm they use to determine the cost for advertising must look like the chalkboard in A BEAUTIFUL MIND.
My project is a gritty STAR TREK meets X-FILES. It’s about 50/50 studio and location shooting, so there’s product placement opportunities. My feeling is we are right on the edge between HBO/SyFy channel and the majors, but the “gritty” part – violence and implied drug use – might make it a hard sell. Never know without trying.
The series was actually passed up by Peter Chernin for the fine, fine series Terra Nova with its fine, fine $10 million pilot. But I’m genuinely not sore about it, it’s my baby and I need to be the one to tell the story. They would have butchered it.
My project is a gritty STAR TREK meets X-FILES. It’s about 50/50 studio and location shooting, so there’s product placement opportunities. My feeling is we are right on the edge between HBO/SyFy channel and the majors, but the “gritty” part – violence and implied drug use – might make it a hard sell. Never know without trying.
The series was actually passed up by Peter Chernin for the fine, fine series Terra Nova with its fine, fine $10 million pilot. But I’m genuinely not sore about it, it’s my baby and I need to be the one to tell the story. They would have butchered it.
My fault for the misunderstanding. I wasn't asking about the story
or style. I was asking if there are any shows on the air (or cable)
that started the way you are starting yours. An independent pilot
made and sold by people previously not in the business. And (I assume)
with no name stars involved.
If you can show potential investors how much the pilot sold for and
how many episodes were purchased of a series like yours that would
be a huge help. I can't think of any. TV is very different from movies
in that aspect, too. But i'm sure you've done your research.
or style. I was asking if there are any shows on the air (or cable)
that started the way you are starting yours. An independent pilot
made and sold by people previously not in the business. And (I assume)
with no name stars involved.
If you can show potential investors how much the pilot sold for and
how many episodes were purchased of a series like yours that would
be a huge help. I can't think of any. TV is very different from movies
in that aspect, too. But i'm sure you've done your research.
So you have business experience.
In that case, get the book - trust me, kindred spirit, you'll notice a lot of pearls of wisdom.
Very interesting. I never would have thought to do it any other way. Why hand over 90% of your profits and total creative control to a studio whizkid for the exact same odds of it getting a hit?
I will definitely be researching it a lot better before pilot time. The plan is for it to be a Pacific Northwest project - using mostly Washington/Oregon talent/crew/locations. Everything is tons cheaper up here and incentives are 35% for WA and 36.2% for OR. We have a piece of the "California desert" in Christmas Valley, OR my business partner bought for a whopping $1,000/acre. We do have some actors coming up from LA (our talent pool is pretty much non-existent). Who knows? If it's a story people want to see, we'll tell it as long as we can, if not, we'll try to figure that out before we blow $250k on a pilot.
I will definitely be researching it a lot better before pilot time. The plan is for it to be a Pacific Northwest project - using mostly Washington/Oregon talent/crew/locations. Everything is tons cheaper up here and incentives are 35% for WA and 36.2% for OR. We have a piece of the "California desert" in Christmas Valley, OR my business partner bought for a whopping $1,000/acre. We do have some actors coming up from LA (our talent pool is pretty much non-existent). Who knows? If it's a story people want to see, we'll tell it as long as we can, if not, we'll try to figure that out before we blow $250k on a pilot.
In that case, get the book - trust me, kindred spirit, you'll notice a lot of pearls of wisdom.
Will do, thanks for the recommendation.
That said, if a picture is worth 1,000 words, I'm betting a full-size mock-up of a flying saucer from the series people can sit in and ooo and ahhh over trumps a good business plan.
It's probably worth mentioning since this is a business section, in my (unrelated to film) business, I have raised a considerable amount of capital from investors and not a living soul has ever asked to read our business plan. First off, nowadays investors rely entirely on a pitch deck, secondly, all our early investors were people I knew personally or were referred by friends and family. Investors are - understandably - herd animals, they will only go where others have gone before them.
A business plan is for YOUR OWN benefit, to get YOU focused on what you expect to accomplish.
A business plan is for YOUR OWN benefit, to get YOU focused on what you expect to accomplish.
I'd guess it'll depend on who you're pitching to. To me this doesn't seem like a good idea. Pitching to the networks, vs sophisticated film financiers vs dumb money would require different pitching methods. The film business is stilted towards distribution, marketing and risk mitigation, though, my knowledge of TV business is very much limited.
In my experience, it's generally the other way around, networks pick up shows not just for a nationwide audience but for an international audience! Networks either have wholly or part owned subsidiaries which broadcast in a number of countries/territories, have affiliates and/or actively market to unrelated broadcasters or some combination of both. You mentioned SyFy, which is a good example: Under SyFy, SyFy Universal or Sy-Fi Universal, it broadcasts to the USA, Latin America, most of Europe, Australia and various countries in Asia. SyFy also syndicates or licenses/distributes much of it's programming to other broadcasters where SyFy doesn't operate, for example the "Space" channel in Canada. TV Networks have pretty complex structures and distribution models which often vary considerably.
In all likelihood, you are going to find Network TV a frustrating experience then! As I implied above, there are regional, national and international considerations both in terms of story content and in terms of legal and technical specifications. Networks themselves would not generally (AFAIK) pick-up a series for a specific local region but even if they do, they would require a considerable amount of control over all aspects of the story and production, in order to eventually make it suitable for a national/international audience. A regional or affiliate channel would therefore probably be a better bet than a network but from the regional channel's perspective, the real money would be in getting the show picked up by a network and if that option is not on the table, their potential interest and investment will be smaller, baring in mind their investment is likely to be much smaller than a network in the first place.
With any of the traditional distribution/broadcast types, I can't see you getting very far unless you are prepared to compromise the amount of creative control you retain. If you want to ensure that you are "the one to tell the story" and that no one can "butcher it" then you will almost certainly need to look at less traditional distribution/broadcast methods but then your chances of any ROI drop dramatically.
I'm betting that neither a business plan document nor a full-size mock-up of a flying saucer will carry much weight on their own as far as a TV network exec is concerned! The TV industry is huge, at least 10x bigger than the film industry, it's also far more complex. I'm certainly no expert but I've picked up enough over the years to at least appreciate some of the complexity of the TV market and I don't believe that the economics of network content production (especially non-commissioned) is something which can easily be self-taught, learnt from books or internet forums. So, my advice is to seek some expert help/advice from an established TV series/exec producer, preferably one experienced in the Sci-Fi genre and to do so before you commit to a budget!
G
If you can make that kind of deal then there is no reason to hand over anything.
But many show creators hand over some creative control and financial stake in
order to have the backing and clout of a major station. In most cases handing
over 50/60% of the profits in exchange for a huge pie worth $100,000,000 is
financially more sound than keeping 100% of a pie worth $800,000
That is my experience, too.
I'm sure you can raise the money to make a pilot. A finished pilot isn't like
a finished feature film. It seems that syndication is what you're looking to
do. You will need to raise the money for each episode and you will pay to
have the show broadcast. The station will get 60% of the ad time, you will
get 40% - or whatever deal you can negotiate.
I think I have some syndication numbers from a project I was involved in
a few years ago. I'll see if I can find them. It's extremely rare and a LOT of
work but I remember finding a few examples of a show creator making quite
a bit. He literally when from region to region buying air time just like the
"infomercials" do.
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Thanks, AudioPostExpert, I understand it will be difficult, but that is what interests me. I want to take a shot at the dragon everybody says can't be whooped. Like I said, I am not betting the rent money. It's a passion project. I appreciate the size and complexity of the film and TV industry, but it remains insignificant to the size and complexity of real-world business.
No offense, but I've had some dealings with the studio execs who wield such "power" in the entertainment industry with their cute little MBA's on the wall - including walking out of a meeting with a young man who chewed gum while he was talking. If he worked for me I would have fired him on the spot.
I'm also like that - my passion project is my sci-fi franchise, and I now understand what's involved. And, yes, I'm keeping my day job as well.
William Goldman, who wrote Adventures in the Screen Trade, said that these executives know their days would be numbered, because, sooner or later, they will produce a bomb and then they'll be out. Jerry Bruckheimer is one of the latest casualties of the Hollywood system.
I hope most people are on this forum because they're frustrated with the Hollywood insulting everybody's intelligence with the garbage they produce.
I look at independent film - and TV - like indie music. Great art performed by those who wrote it for a more thoughtful audience to enjoy. It's a different audience. The people who watch Iron Man aren't into indie film.
I look at independent film - and TV - like indie music. Great art performed by those who wrote it for a more thoughtful audience to enjoy. It's a different audience. The people who watch Iron Man aren't into indie film.
I'm not saying the dragon can't be whooped, I'm saying the odds are vastly stacked in favour of you being the one who's whooped! If I were to go up against a dragon, I'd want to reduce the odds against me as much as possible; I'd want to know the dragon's weak spots and be heavily armed. You seem to be saying that you'd choose to go up against a dragon unarmed and with no realistic strategy because it would be more difficult/interesting?
The first time I met a TV exec was a very sobering and in some ways quite shocking experience. I learnt a great deal from that and subsequent encounters with other TV execs though!
And yet the vast majority of indie music (or film) is not even good art, let alone great art! There is the occasional little gem but to find it means trawling through a sea of garbage and "meh", which is simply not worth the effort as the sea grows into a vast ocean.
Ah, now that changes the situation! Hollywood does not produce garbage, it produces well crafted, well considered and successful products which far from just insulting everyone's intelligence, provide a level of entertainment huge numbers of people are willing to pay billions to experience. I'm certainly not saying that Hollywood makes the perfect product for everyone or that indie filmmakers should slavishly try to follow every aspect of the Hollywood model but to dismiss it all out of hand as "garbage" is, IMHO, just plain stupid if one is trying to actually operate/compete within that traditional marketplace.
I believed the odds were against you when I first saw this thread but that you were at least approaching the issue from the right direction and with open eyes. if you truly believe what you've stated above, I think your odds of success are dramatically lower than I first assumed! Nevertheless, I wish you the best of luck with your pilot.
G
Well said, APE, well said - that's why I've been biding my time for several years.
