queston about distribution

I'mma be up front and honest here: I'm nowhere near ready to start distributing my film. But after screening it in a series of film festivals, I would like for my movie to be available though the following platforms:
  • DVD and Blu-Ray
  • iTunes
  • YouTube
  • Amazon (just to sell the DVDs and Blu-Rays)
  • Hulu Plus

I would like to also have this film distributed through a well-known distribute like Lionsgate, Sony Pictures, or The Weinstein Company. In that case, would i contact those companies directly or would Withoutabox.com do that for me?
 
Back in the day it cost you a fortune to record. Now, because it's computer based, it's so cheap.

No it's not! If anything it's more expensive than it used to be! Sure, the basic recording equipment is cheaper but good mics, good acoustics, good monitoring and the professional expertise to use it all to create good recordings is not. In other words, I think what you meant to say is: It's far cheaper than it used to be to use professional quality recording equipment to produce amateur or mediocre quality recordings!

Stupid consumers don't care and not enough "enlightened" consumers do.

The situation isn't quite that simple though, it's obvious that there are enough consumers who value quality. For example, CD sales are down by 50%, not 100%. The problem is more complex because a generation has grown up believing it's their right to have free or nearly free access to the highest quality recordings. Let me draw an analogy: Let's take a Nissan Swift, the cheapest new car on the American market, not many people buy them because they're not very desirable; stick-shift, no air-con, not economical, etc. Now let's say that for some reason it became possible to buy a new BMW (normally 5 times more than the Swift), for the same price. Would you stop and think about the long term consequences or would you rush out and buy one if you needed a new car and wouldn't everyone? Eventually everyone would come to expect a top of the line BMW quality car for $12k but long term this situation is not sustainable. BMW is selling a car at a price far lower than it costs to build, eventually either they'd go bankrupt or have to build it more cheaply and of course all the other manufacturers have had to do the same to stay competitive against this ridiculously priced BMW. Gradually the BMW would have to come down in specs closer to where we started with the Nissan Swift but we're not back to square one because now the market is aligned to these lower prices and, the manufacturing expertise, tooling, third party suppliers required to produce the higher quality cars has almost disappeared and all the car manufacturers are so close to bankruptcy they can't afford to take the risk of designing and manufacturing a car which would now have to cost 10 times more than the market expects. At this stage car design is no longer about how to improve efficiency, comfort, safety or performance, it's now all about how cheaply you can make a car which is acceptable to these new lower market standards to give yourself a chance at some sort of profitability and avoid the demise of so many of the other car manufacturers who couldn't adapt in time and no longer exist! It's not that the consumer wants crappy cars, they didn't before and they don't now but now they don't have a choice because good cars are no longer economical to design and build and customers aren't prepared to pay a 10 times premium for air-con, automatic gearboxes, etc.

Makes me feel much more encouraged about the probablity of success my filmmaking might stand! Ha!

That's exactly my point! If the film industry goes the way of the music industry, your probability of success goes through the floor. I know the odds against success seem pretty bad right now, just as they did to artists trying to get into the music business in the 1990's. The assumption then, just as it seems to be now, is that cheaper/easier filmmaking and distribution will help improve the odds. What I'm trying to explain is that as difficult as becoming successful seemed back then, becoming successful today is way more difficult . To the point that the actual definition of "success" has changed! Most of the members of this forum are here because I assume they want to improve as filmmakers but what's the point? If filmmaking skill and talent isn't rewarded and doesn't even pay the bills and "success" is defined by producing the cheapest films possible and distinguishing yourself from the millions of others doing exactly the same thing solely through your skill in marketing (rather than any filmmaking skill), would you consider this to be filmmaking "success"? In other words, if there is no such thing as a successful film maker in the future, only a successful film marketer, would you still want to be "successful" in the film industry? The popular music industry hasn't quite reached this point yet but it is about 90% of the way there and anytime soon we'll reach the point of no return. So, while I agree with Blade_Jones that "it's a great time to be a musician" I would add that I don't think there's been a worse time to try and be a professional musician! As I said, I REALLY hope what's happened/happening to the music industry doesn't happen to the film industry and maybe the film industry is different enough and can avoid the same fate.

With my experience of the music industry, it seems to me that many here are looking at ultra cheap filmmaking equipment and distribution as a solution to the level difficulty of getting into the film industry at this point in time, without seeming to realise that ultra cheap filmmaking equipment and distribution will change the film industry and in all likelihood the level of difficulty!

G
 
The sky is falling! The world is ending! Somehow the arguments between APE and the rest of IT never change. I still want to see what APE has produced, that's all I'll say (and I'll immediately regret saying anything, but I can't help myself).
 
No it's not! If anything it's more expensive than it used to be! Sure, the basic recording equipment is cheaper but good mics, good acoustics, good monitoring and the professional expertise to use it all to create good recordings is not. In other words, I think what you meant to say is: It's far cheaper than it used to be to use professional quality recording equipment to produce amateur or mediocre quality recordings!
Back in the day buying a mixer, Tascam 16 track, and outboard effects would cost you a fortune. Now we have Nuendo, Florida Studio, waves plugins, etc.

Back to an earlier point, I can't wait for CD's to go out of style. I sell about 1 CD for every 20 digital albums. Now Amazon sends me these PO's for 1 CD. Are they kidding me? It's not even worth the cost of packaging, gas to the mailbox and shipping.
 
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I'm not really clear on how this differs from how it was with Tower Records, Wherehouse, Musicland, Virgin, Best Buy, Target, Walmart, etc. They all took their cut and didn't invest in the artists - they were retailers of the label's product. It seems clear that the labels still control the market to a great extent.

No, you have it backwards, it only seems clear! The old retailers purchased product from wholesalers who in turn were supplied by the labels and therefore to a large extent the retail price of the music was controlled by the record labels cartel. You wanted a song, you paid your $16.99 for the CD on which that song was released, you want your song now and you subscribe to Pandora who pays total royalties of about $0.00137 per play and that royalty has to be split between the record label, artist, composer and arranger! Digital music sales fell for the first time last year while the Pandora model (now being implemented by iTunes and Amazon) increased. The labels are now controlled by the market, not the other way around!!

Fewer and fewer are making living from recording sales. Instead, recordings are increasingly used as a loss leader, a marketing tool for live tours, which is where the money is nowadays, even for the bigger artists. This is the complete opposite of how the industry used to work, where the live tours were the marketing tool for the CDs! Because there is still some money in touring, the successful artists, or rather their management companies, record labels and PR teams have a marketing budget and this is why the labels still appear to control the market.

Is it the death of the big recording studio? Probably - just as we've seen the death of the big post house in the film industry.

What? The death of the big post house in the film industry is news to me!

You've got people who are spending their days on forums where instruments, mics, amps, and effects, etc are endlessly discussed, debated, compared and contrasted. They're learning their craft through research and practice at an accelerated pace compared to what was traditionally possible simply due to a scarcity of resources.

No, they're not learning at an accelerated pace, they're learning at a decelerated pace and simply not learning at all! The old system; you started as an assistant to a professional, you actually saw was what done and why it was done, eventually you became a professional recording engineer. If you were talented and knowledgeable enough you were offered a job in a major studio where you worked as an assistant to a highly talented and experienced professional and eventually became a chief recording engineer yourself. There is no better or more accelerated learning than this! The majority of those who call themselves a recording engineer today have almost no idea what they are doing beyond clicking on a few software buttons in a DAW, they probably don't even know what half of the options available do. This really is NOT an exaggeration! Being a decent recording engineer is a skill and an art, you can't pick much of it up by trial and error or just randomly playing around with it. Most of the really advanced knowledge/skills is never published, so can't be researched and you can't practise something you don't know about! And, as those who have this skill/knowledge become fewer and fewer and leave the industry so this knowledge/skill is lost forever.

Being a recording engineer used to mean something, it used to command a certain amount of respect. A recording engineer now is more likely to be a kid in a bedroom with a laptop, a cracked version of Cubase and probably little more idea of how to be a recording engineer than the people they are recording.

They're building and testing and using home studios that may not be up to all of the standards of the greatest studios of the 'golden age' but are close, and can be more powerful in some ways.

I don't even know where to start with this, you can't be serious? How close is a home made $2k jalopy to a multi-million dollar Ferrari race car? If you think they are close then your statement above makes more sense.

...They're finding an audience, maybe not one that pays a lot yet, but one that appreciates what they're doing and drives them to want to continue doing it. And at some point, after maybe a decade of theory, practice, feedback, and experimentation - these people are going to start graduating from high school, and that'll be the dawn of the golden age of popular music.

No, they are graduating from school now and are going to work in McDonalds. In a few years they'll want an apartment of their own, maybe a family, so they'll eventually become a manager at McDonalds or maybe they'll train as an accountant or something. They won't however go into the music industry because the music industry won't be able to support them or their family! There will be stockholders of Apple and Amazon who are making money but the actual music content will be made by amateurs/hobbyists who need a real job to support themselves because the million plays they achieved (after their decade of theory and practise) only supported their family for a few days. The best seller list is now dominated by the 1 remaining record label which is a conglomerate of all the other labels it bought at bargain basement prices and is basically a marketing machine for the girls it picks from Facebook with the most likes for their bikinis and nail art!

G
 
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The sky is falling! The world is ending! Somehow the arguments between APE and the rest of IT never change. I still want to see what APE has produced, that's all I'll say (and I'll immediately regret saying anything, but I can't help myself).

Yep, bizarre isn't it? Why would some here on IT want to argue with me and pretty much an entire industry which they've never even been part of? I've quoted Bon Jovi and I could quote many, many others but no, some on IT know better. This is a good read for example.

The end-game reality is that the biggest losers of the digital distribution age are actually those it was assumed it would help the most, the artists. Those few record companies which still exist are managing to survive by doing under the table deals with the "enemy", which effectively screw the artists even more. Ultimately though the consumer will loose when one day they suddenly realise that there are only a handful completely manufactured professional music artists left! I can't see what grounds you have for denying this published, publicised and well known data within the industry, beyond some head-buried-in-the-sand desire that it isn't true and that it won't also happen to the film industry?

I'm tempted to tell you what I've produced, just to shut you up! :)

G
 
But APE.. if it weren't for modern tech and youtube, we wouldn't have justin bieber. How can you consider something like that and honestly say that musical quality is declining!

:lol:

Okay so in seriousness.. sounds to me like.. it's easier than ever to build an audience, but harder than ever to monetize an audience when you have them
 
But APE.. if it weren't for modern tech and youtube, we wouldn't have justin bieber. How can you consider something like that and honestly say that musical quality is declining!

:) There has always been a lot of musical crap but when we think of the 60's - 90's, time fortunately seems to filter out most of it. Modern tech and the net has just made it possible for many more to join in on the act! Also, the concept of the completely manufactured artist is not something new to this modern era either, it goes back to the 60's. The Monkeys were probably the most well known early example. Again, modern tech just makes it easier/cheaper.

Okay so in seriousness.. sounds to me like.. it's easier than ever to build an audience, but harder than ever to monetize an audience when you have them.

I'm not sure if it is easier than ever to build an audience. In the 90's we were looking at the opportunities which virtually free digital distribution could bring us. And, to a large extent this was our error because we were thinking about "us" in terms of the relatively few of us who could afford the recording equipment and/or could afford to hire the commercial studios. Obviously some of the tech was becoming way cheaper but the other tech and the knowledge/skill to use it wasn't, what we didn't foresee was that this cheap tech would inspire new "underground" genres of music which didn't value production standards and therefore bypassed this other expensive tech and the expensive knowledge/experience to use it correctly. Hip Hop and Garage being the two most obvious genre examples. I remember being horrified listening to an album of one of the foremost UK "bands" of the time; "The Streets". The album I listened to was essentially made in Mike Skinner's bedroom and was full of editing clicks, overload errors and pretty much every single one of the other most basic "beginner" mistakes and in addition was based on the poorest quality samples imaginable. What this all meant was that not only everyone with a couple of hundred dollars could now afford the tech but that anyone who could be bothered to play around with the software for a couple of hours or so could attain commercial quality standards because commercial standards were now complete newbie level! The "us" went from thousands to many millions! Was it easier to build an audience when you were one amongst thousands with extremely limited distribution opportunities or is it easier with essentially unlimited distribution opportunities but being one amongst many millions?

The other part of the equation is as you say monetizing that audience. It seems to be more and more a case of it not just being extremely difficult to monetize that audience in any meaningful way but of it being actually impossible! Last year David Lowery (of Camper Van Beethoven and Cracker) posted his royalty statement from Pandora for "Low" in an article titled: "My Song Got Played On Pandora 1 Million Times and All I Got Was $16.89, Less Than What I Make From a Single T-Shirt Sale!". Lou Reed was also quoted in a Guardian interview last year: "Reed compared his recent royalty checks to the $2.60 he got for playing a bar at age 14. "I understand young people were brought up on downloading, and Steve Jobs tried to make it into some kind of business which benefits Apple, but you get about a sixteenth of a penny," Reed said. "You used to make a record but they reduced the size of it and put it in this plastic that breaks immediately ... You realize they are really fucking with you, so people didn't want to pay for anything. But meanwhile the musician doesn't get paid anything. Now making a record is kind of a promotional thing." If people like these can't monetise their considerable audiences in any meaningful way what hope is there for someone starting out in the business? And these are not isolated examples, there are many more, in fact pretty much all of them, either privately or publicly speaking out on the issue. Quite a few in the UK have got together and formed the "Featured Artists Coalition" to present a collective voice, just the board of directors comprises: Kate Nash, Master Shortie, Ed O’Brien (Radiohead), Dave Rowntree (Blur), Howard Jones, Mark Kelly (Marillion), Hal Ritson (The Young Punx), Sandie Shaw, Annie Lennox, Nick Mason (Pink Floyd), Lucy Pullin (The Fire Escapes), Ross Millard (The Futureheads), Fran Healy (Travis), Rumer, Chris Difford (Squeeze) and Crispin Hunt (The Longpigs).

A 50% fall in sales sounds bad but it doesn't sound like a complete catastrophe but the reality is that this remaining 50% is mainly going to people with no connection to the music industry (corporate shareholders for example). Some of what remains goes to a much tinier handful of artists than ever before and the little that's left over is being shared amongst countless thousands of others, pretty much none of whom earn anywhere near the annual minimum wage from making/selling recordings.

In one way the record companies have also been big losers because in a sense there really aren't any record companies anymore! EMI, BMG, Virgin, RCA, Island Records, Columbia, Polygram, Decca, Atlantic, Sanctuary, Epic, Chrysalis, Arista and many more besides don't really exist anymore. Either they literally no longer exist or they mainly exist just as brand names, all of which are owned by the 3 main remaining record companies. But to call these remaining conglomerates "record companies" isn't really accurate, while they do still invest in some artists and make, market and distribute recordings, this part of their business is now more of a side-line. Their main business is "rights management", in other words the management/licensing of their vast back catalogues of music copyrights. Very clever they've been at it too, maximising profits from revenues in part by minimising royalty payments to artists!

There are a lot of similarities between the music industry and film industry, the film industry is also mostly controlled by a relatively few companies (the main studios and distributors). There are some differences though, the recording industry's end user is (via various delivery methods) always the private home consumer, whereas in the film industry you've got the cinema goers as well as the home consumers and maybe this is enough to ensure the film industry doesn't follow the same path as the music industry, or maybe that's not enough?! No one really knows at this point but there are a lot of nervous people in the film and TV industries just now, that much is for sure!

G
 
Over 20 years ago, a friend use to run a major recording studio in Boston. Many of the major artists used it and the studio usually charged $500 per hour. It was booked a year in advance. The record companies would book the studio for several days or more at a time. A lot of the studio time was not used. My friend would let other musicians use it for free or at a very low rate. This gave a lot of local musicians a chance to do a record of high quality for little money. I haven't seen him since then, but imagine his studio could have bitten the dust too.
 
At least film can always fall back on product placement.
There's only so many songs you can make about air force ones and J's on your feet.

I think also, people are willing to forgive exacting audio standards.. but things like bad acting will always screw up a film. Even the cheap found footage shaky ones can be ruined by bad acting
 
I remember being horrified listening to an album of one of the foremost UK "bands" of the time; "The Streets". The album I listened to was essentially made in Mike Skinner's bedroom and was full of editing clicks, overload errors and pretty much every single one of the other most basic "beginner" mistakes and in addition was based on the poorest quality samples imaginable.

I imagine this was quite the same reaction that the studios, cinemagraphers, editors, etc of the time had upon first watching The 400 Blows or Breathless.
 
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One of the interesting (and cautionary) aspects of the digital filmmaking "revolution" has been a glut of unsaleable features. A friend of mine who assists in acquisitions for a mid-sized distributor says that they are swamped by makers of 50k-and-under features practically begging to give these films away under any terms they can get. There's only so much room in the VOD/cable/DVD pipelines, and despite utopian daydreams of a new generation supporting themselves via self-distribution, there's only so much public attention aimed towards that as well. However digital platforms wind up, competition will be fierce.
 
Hello. My name is Audrey and I would like to extend an invitation to filmmakers & producers who are looking for distribution for their work to contact me because I am looking for new fresh content for HerTube television division. I can be reached at Audrey@HerTube.TV. Also if you would like to host your own show or have video content that you would like to get on TV email me.

Thanks
 
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