queston about distribution

I'mma be up front and honest here: I'm nowhere near ready to start distributing my film. But after screening it in a series of film festivals, I would like for my movie to be available though the following platforms:
  • DVD and Blu-Ray
  • iTunes
  • YouTube
  • Amazon (just to sell the DVDs and Blu-Rays)
  • Hulu Plus

I would like to also have this film distributed through a well-known distribute like Lionsgate, Sony Pictures, or The Weinstein Company. In that case, would i contact those companies directly or would Withoutabox.com do that for me?
 
I'd hate to give you the bad news, but if you've already screened it at some festivals and you haven't already been approached by one of the majors it's most unlikely to happen.

The majors and the top end mini-majors tend to do all-service deals.

Now go out and prove me wrong and get that deal!
 
Yeah, the big companies you listed go out of their way to find the films they like by visiting the top film festivals. I highly doubt they even respond to unsolicited emails/letters/phone calls.

I would recommend being honest with yourself about your film's quality, and look up the distribution companies that released similar movies to yours. Then you know which companies to contact yourself.

If you actually do have a brilliant film, keep submitting to festivals until you get an offer, or just self distribute.
 
I'mma be up front and honest here: I'm nowhere near ready to start distributing my film. But after screening it in a series of film festivals, I would like for my movie to be available though the following platforms:
  • DVD and Blu-Ray
  • iTunes
  • YouTube
  • Amazon (just to sell the DVDs and Blu-Rays)
  • Hulu Plus

I would like to also have this film distributed through a well-known distribute like Lionsgate, Sony Pictures, or The Weinstein Company. In that case, would i contact those companies directly or would Withoutabox.com do that for me?
You don't need any distributor to sell to Amazon. Sign up for their Advantage program.
Companies like Stonehenge Productions will distribute your movie to iTunes, although it costs like $750 to get set up.
 
or just self distribute.

That's what I'm thinking about doing. But here is the trick: I want my movie to be available for VOD on YouTube. At this time a film can only be sold on YouTube if it is uploaded by a film distribution company.

This is my first film anyway -- not that this is an excuse as to why a company can't distribute it but here was my distribution plan:
What I wanted to do was cut the teaser and trailer myself, upload the "coming soon" trailer to YouTube. Then have The Design Studio in New Jersey (http://www.discmakers.com/design/) design the DVD and Blu-Ray cover the way I wanted it to be, then have the people at Disc Makers make me 500 DVD copies and 500 Blu-Ray copies of the movie, then I myself can sell the film on Amazon or wherever else. THEN I would have Distribber put the film on HuluPlus and iTunes. This way I could make ALL the profits of the film being sold this way... but then again a couple thousand dollars to have all the DVDs and Blu-Rays made and then another thousand to have it put on iTunes and Hulu so I'm pretty much screwed.

You don't need any distributor to sell to Amazon. Sign up for their Advantage program.
Companies like Stonehenge Productions will distribute your movie to iTunes, although it costs like $750 to get set up.

On Amazon will YOU make 100% of all profits and they charge you an upfront fee to get started or will you and Amazon get the profits?
 
If movie distribution through Amazon is anything like the self publishing through their "createspace" setup, then it is free to distribute and Amazon take a small percentage of all sales.
On the books, they are very reasonable. I can't imagine them shooting themselves in the foot by being unreasonable with film. The one downside of that is it is then up to you to market the film and that takes a lot of work.
 
On Amazon will YOU make 100% of all profits and they charge you an upfront fee to get started or will you and Amazon get the profits?
On Amazon they pocket 45% but they can change the rules on the fly and either charge more or put the product on sale. Amazon makes a lot but at least I'm not paying a middleman and hanging on the edge of my seat waiting for a traditional distributor to pay me. Very often traditional distributors screw you over. All too common in the media business. I've been screwed by two in the past. Everyone I've met who has sold media product through a traditional distributor has been screwed by a traditional distributor in some way shape or form. Often they use the little suppliers to keep their business afloat while keeping their top suppliers happy.

I also use ccnow.com to sell my stuff through my own website. CCcnow only makes about 8%. This way I can charge a lower price. If people are stupid enough to buy from Amazon then tough luck for them.

Fortunately the transition to digital distribution is coming. With digital audio albums you pocket about 80% and with non-traditional distributors like TuneCore they only charge a flat yearly fee of $50 per release. Non-traditional distributors can generally be trusted. I'm sure that with digital movies it's a similar profit margin, although last I heard there was a $750 upfront charge to get your movie on iTunes.
 
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Fortunately the transition to digital distribution is coming. With digital audio albums you pocket about 80% and with non-traditional distributors like TuneCore they only charge a flat yearly fee of $50 per release.

Yep, that was the big selling point to artists of digital distribution for their music. 80% (or rather about 70% for say iTunes) sounds a hell of a lot better than the 10% -20% most were likely to see from a traditional distributor (record label). Pretty much all artists moaned about getting screwed by the fat cat middle men taking the lion's share of the sales.

The reality of digital music distribution is vastly different to the hyped selling point though. At the end of the day, 80% of $500 is peanuts compared to even just 10% of $300k. I won't go into the facts and figures but except for a tiny handful, digital distribution has virtually destroyed the recorded music industry. It's not just the significant numbers of artists and studio musicians who could once have made a modest living from music but the ancillary employees of the industry such as those employed by the commercial recording studios (studios which have now either gone out of business or operate at a loss).

Yes, digital distribution is coming but to call it "fortunately", citing the digital distribution of music as the example, is naive in the extreme and ignores the actual facts of the damage digital distribution has done to the music industry.

G
 
Yep, that was the big selling point to artists of digital distribution for their music. 80% (or rather about 70% for say iTunes) sounds a hell of a lot better than the 10% -20% most were likely to see from a traditional distributor (record label). Pretty much all artists moaned about getting screwed by the fat cat middle men taking the lion's share of the sales.

The reality of digital music distribution is vastly different to the hyped selling point though. At the end of the day, 80% of $500 is peanuts compared to even just 10% of $300k. I won't go into the facts and figures but except for a tiny handful, digital distribution has virtually destroyed the recorded music industry. It's not just the significant numbers of artists and studio musicians who could once have made a modest living from music but the ancillary employees of the industry such as those employed by the commercial recording studios (studios which have now either gone out of business or operate at a loss).

Yes, digital distribution is coming but to call it "fortunately", citing the digital distribution of music as the example, is naive in the extreme and ignores the actual facts of the damage digital distribution has done to the music industry.

G
I love digital distribution. No need to manufacture and ship physical product. No need to worry about over or under manufacturing. With digital you get world wide distribution instead of having your product shipped to maybe 20 Best Buy stores and a few mom an pops. Indie brick and mortar distributors NEVER got your product in many stores.

Illegal file sharing is what killed people, but you can flood torrent sites with decoy torrents.
 
But it would've been nice to see my movie being sold in Best Buy and Walmart stores, even in just a few. I just started thinking about that when Blade Jones mentioned it.

This sounds like a dumb, laughable question but I'm asking it anyway. Is it at all possible for a film to get distribution after it was already self-distributed?
 
I love digital distribution. No need to manufacture and ship physical product. No need to worry about over or under manufacturing. With digital you get world wide distribution instead of having your product shipped to maybe 20 Best Buy stores and a few mom an pops. Indie brick and mortar distributors NEVER got your product in many stores.

Yep, it all sounds rosy and wonderful, just as it did to the music industry a dozen or so years ago. Yet now the music industry has been decimated and just about the only ones making any money out of it are not actually part of the music industry! And, this has very little to do with internet piracy or with how widely distributed your product is. A relatively small distribution which once earned an artist a modest annual living is vastly preferable to a worldwide distribution which earns an artist a total of 4 Big Mac meals! There are many myths about the music industry, record labels, fat cats and the digital distribution "democratisation" of the industry, most of it is just that, myths. The only winners are those hosting the content, not the content producers themselves!!

G
 
This sounds like a dumb, laughable question but I'm asking it anyway. Is it at all possible for a film to get distribution after it was already self-distributed?

Don't take this as gospel, though I listened to a course at Filmspecific that says you can pick up a distribution deal after you've self distributed, though it's often less likely, especially if you've done a deal breaking move.

It's sad to hear about the music industry. I didn't know that digital distribution killed it. I hope it's not the same for film, though it sounds like it would be if we did away with cinematic distribution.
 
Yet now the music industry has been decimated and just about the only ones making any money out of it are not actually part of the music industry!

When you say they're not actually part of the music industry, are you referring to distributors like amazon/apple, or artists outside of traditional distribution? I'm just wondering what we define as the edges of the "music industry" - it used to be fairly clear what those were, and I know that traditional industry has been essentially cut in half by digital distribution. At the same time though there are a lot of businesses that wouldn't have traditionally been part of that which now make money in some form or another through music and digital media. I'm just not sure how we can measure or analyze that in terms of where the money is going these days.
 
When you say they're not actually part of the music industry, are you referring to distributors like amazon/apple, or artists outside of traditional distribution? I'm just wondering what we define as the edges of the "music industry" - it used to be fairly clear what those were, and I know that traditional industry has been essentially cut in half by digital distribution.

No, it's much worse than that, the figures are grossly misleading if taken out of context! Yes, music sales are down by about 50% compared to 12-15 years ago and yes, the artists get a much higher percentage of sale price when distributing through say iTunes. So on the face of it, the record labels are the big losers, the consumers are the biggest winners and the artists are winners too ... but this is NOT the reality behind the figures!

In the old system, the record labels would identify an artist which they thought had great potential and invest in them. They would pay for a producer, recording studio, studio musicians, CD manufacture, marketing and distribution and give the artist an advance so they had a liveable income for the 3-6 months it would take to make the album. In total this would cost the Record company anything from about $100k - $1m (very roughly!). Of course, the record company would have to recoup these costs from sales, so even with an album which had reasonably good sales, the artist might not get much more than their original advance. Also, 9 out of 10 albums didn't earn enough to cover their costs but that 1 out of 10 could make a huge profit, enough to cover the losses of the other 9 albums and still leave enough for record execs to buy that nice house in the Hamptons! Artists were not happy about all this because they saw $1m in album sales but ended up getting just a few tens of thousands, or occasionally saw $30m in sales but only got a million or two of it.

Getting 70% of $1m or 70% of $30m sounds way more attractive, it's even much more attractive if we cut the sales figures by 50% but that's not how it has worked out! iTunes are not part of the recording industry, they take their roughly 30% cut but invest none of this cut back into the industry. They don't even invest in the 1 out of 10, let alone the other 9 who were given a serious shot back when the record labels controlled the market. As an artist, to earn that 70% you have no choice but to invest your own money to make an album and support yourself while making it. This means the average album today has probably been made for around $500 - $2k which is roughly 100 times less than the record labels used to spend. For this reason, most of the big commercial recording studios have closed and those which remain are mostly operating at a loss. Abbey Road Studios, the world's first purpose built music recording studio, and arguably the most famous recording studio of them all, has been operating for the last 5-10 years at an annual loss of about $6-7m. So the 50% decrease in music sales doesn't reflect the roughly 80% or more reduction in the number of top flight commercial recording studios and of course in the personnel who used to work in them, including ancillary personnel like session musicians.

Furthermore, the "up and coming" artists of course don't have a marketing budget or an established marketing machine like the record labels did, so while for a few dollars you can effectively get worldwide distribution that worldwide distribution earns you nothing because everyone else can get worldwide distribution as well. Not only is the pot half the size due to sales being 50% lower but the artists at the top are still earning the same amount so what's left is a lot less than 50% of what it used to be and at the same time, the number of people competing for this pot has increased about a thousand fold!

I can't remember in which industry rag I read it now but in 2012 roughly 75,000 CDs were commercially released, would you like to hazard a guess what the average sales were for the bottom 60,000 albums? Does 20,000 CDs sound reasonable? What about 2,000? The actual figure is 13 ... Yes, just 13!!! 70% of 13 album sales is about $90, welcome to the utopia which is worldwide digital distribution! But even this sounds like the "good ol' days" as consumers are now buying "streaming plays" rather than paying to own songs, achieve 1,000 paid streaming plays and you'll earn enough for a nice medium latte at Starbucks!

Consumers may think they are the big winners because the cost of listening to their choice of music is way cheaper than it used to be, but this is just an illusion. While recording technology is better and cheaper than it's ever been, for the first time in history, the average production quality of commercial music has fallen. Unless something drastic happens, it's likely that the finest quality music recordings which will ever be made, have in fact already been made and quite a few years ago! Many record labels used to invest significantly in new, cutting edge, experimental artists in the hope of finding that "next big thing" and to a large extent, this risky but potentially extremely lucrative investment has driven the evolution of the popular music genres over the last 40 or 50 years. But iTunes, Amazon, Pandora and other similar companies don't invest anything at all in the music business and even the record labels which do still exist have had to drastically cut costs and investment to remain even vaguely competitive. The end result of this drastic cut in investment in new talent is that the evolution of the popular music art form itself is stalling. Add this to a disappearing highly skilled workforce and high quality recording facilities and this is why so many who've been in the industry for many years are calling this the end of the music industry. This is what led Bon Jovi a few years ago to publicly state that he held Steve Jobs personally responsible for the death of the music industry. It must have seemed like the ravings of a mad man to most consumers but was met with nods of approval from many in the industry. The average consumer simply doesn't yet realise how ultimately they are the losers because they obviously don't know what they are missing, how the popular music art form and recording industry would have evolved, and they are yet to feel the full impact of a slowly stagnating art form. By the time the consumer does realise the severity of the problem, it's likely to be too late to do anything about it and the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's will come to be viewed as the "golden age" of popular music culture, never to be recaptured, and Bon Jovi will be able to say "I told you so"!

What seemed in the early 1990's like a utopian dream of easy worldwide self distribution, beyond the control of the major record labels cartel, not only hasn't delivered on it's promise but has turned into a nightmare worse than anyone could possibly have imagined! I'm not saying this same thing will necessarily happen to the film industry but it is a shocking cautionary tale and completely contrary to the promise of digital distribution as described by Blade_Jones.

G
 
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Consumers may think they are the big winners because the cost of listening to their choice of music is way cheaper than it used to be, but this is just an illusion. While recording technology is better and cheaper than it's ever been, for the first time in history, the average production quality of commercial music has fallen. Unless something drastic happens, it's likely that the finest quality music recordings which will ever be made, have in fact already been made and quite a few years ago!... The average consumer simply doesn't yet realise how ultimately they are the losers because they obviously don't know what they are missing, how the popular music art form and recording industry would have evolved, and they are yet to feel the full impact of a slowly stagnating art form. By the time the consumer does realise the severity of the problem, it's likely to be too late to do anything about it and the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's will come to be viewed as the "golden age" of popular music culture, never to be recaptured, and Bon Jovi will be able to say "I told you so"!
FWIW, I believe the 60s through early 90's was the "golden age."

And I also believe that if a population doesn't care enough to do something about a condition, be it music, film, art, or politics, then they deserve it.

If consumers don't care if they're being served drek then... the masses have spoken.
No need to gild lilies if they're content with just plan lilies.

If the economical base of consumers want cr@p - give it to them.
If they don't value quality then it's folly to provide it.
 
FWIW, I believe the 60s through early 90's was the "golden age."

And I also believe that if a population doesn't care enough to do something about a condition, be it music, film, art, or politics, then they deserve it.

If consumers don't care if they're being served drek then... the masses have spoken.
No need to gild lilies if they're content with just plan lilies.

If the economical base of consumers want cr@p - give it to them.
If they don't value quality then it's folly to provide it.
I think it's actually a case of diminishing returns. Certain styles can only go so far. One thing that is still evolving as technology evolves is electronic music. The synthesizer has been around for a while but they still keep coming out with newer better, more advanced synths like the Nexus2, Camel Audio Alchemy, Sylenth, etc. These are all "virtual" synths in that they are software based. This actually makes them cheaper and more accessible to musicians who might otherwise not be able to afford them. Instead of $2,000 to $3,000 synths we have $180 - $300 synths. Same situation with recording gear. Back in the day it cost you a fortune to record. Now, because it's computer based, it's so cheap.

Also nowadays you don't need to move to Hollywood. Stay where you're at and be heard on YouTube. Or if you're a one-man electronic "band" then you can produce it all yourself. No need to move to Hollywood in hopes of getting signed.

So for these reasons I think it's a great time to be a musician. It's become fragmented though. It's so cheap and easy to write and record that there's a TON on musicians out there and world wide distribution is available to everyone.
 
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Consumers may think they are the big winners because the cost of listening to their choice of music is way cheaper than it used to be, but this is just an illusion. . . .

The average consumer simply doesn't yet realise how ultimately they are the losers because they obviously don't know what they are missing, . . .

Not to make this personal, but for all we know it may be YOU that holds an illusion.

In the first place, perhaps you didn't get the clue when mp3s took off. That's right, consumers preferred a lower grade of music than was available on the market.

The market is merely giving customers what they want. Most of them are not missing a damn thing. And if told, they don't care.
 
Didn't 8 track cassettes fail against regular cassettes because despite better quality output they were relatively more expensive?

And the same for Betamax vs. VHS?

AFAIC, if the cows are happy eating the same grass they've been eating from the field for hundreds of thousands of years IDK what the big benefit is to insist that they be fed corn.
Dumb cows don't care.

Likewise, if Joe Blow stupid consumer wants burger and fries and not fresh seafood and pasta then... I guess McD's and BK are gonna be okay while Red Lobster and Olive Garden continue to lose market share - DESPITE - providing a premium product + service.
http://business.time.com/2014/01/10...sual-dining-restaurant-category-is-suffering/

Stupid consumers don't care and not enough "enlightened" consumers do.

Likewise again, if Joe Blow consumer is content with mass excreted wallpaper music I think they're good with the brief rotation of a steady supply of musical drivel/tripe.

Makes me feel much more encouraged about the probablity of success my filmmaking might stand! Ha!
 
iTunes are not part of the recording industry, they take their roughly 30% cut but invest none of this cut back into the industry. They don't even invest in the 1 out of 10, let alone the other 9 who were given a serious shot back when the record labels controlled the market.

I'm not really clear on how this differs from how it was with Tower Records, Wherehouse, Musicland, Virgin, Best Buy, Target, Walmart, etc. They all took their cut and didn't invest in the artists - they were retailers of the label's product. iTunes, Amazon, etc are the same - all their top sales are record label product. In fact, wasn't it just this year that Macklemore & Ryan Lewis had the first #1 hit without a record deal in 20 years or so? And the last time that happened the song rode in on the success of a film soundtrack. It seems clear that the labels still control the market to a great extent.

This is what led Bon Jovi a few years ago to publicly state that he held Steve Jobs personally responsible for the death of the music industry. It must have seemed like the ravings of a mad man to most consumers but was met with nods of approval from many in the industry. The average consumer simply doesn't yet realise how ultimately they are the losers because they obviously don't know what they are missing, how the popular music art form and recording industry would have evolved, and they are yet to feel the full impact of a slowly stagnating art form. By the time the consumer does realise the severity of the problem, it's likely to be too late to do anything about it and the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's will come to be viewed as the "golden age" of popular music culture

Again, this seems like hyperbole to me. Will the record labels be smaller? Sure - but they still dominate the mainstream pop landscape. Is it the death of the big recording studio? Probably - just as we've seen the death of the big post house in the film industry. Is it the death of the art form? Unlikely. Even the suggestion that it will stagnate seems pretty far-fetched.

The thing is it doesn't necessarily take the kind of investment a record company used to put into an artist anymore. You've got people who are spending their days on forums where instruments, mics, amps, and effects, etc are endlessly discussed, debated, compared and contrasted. They're learning their craft through research and practice at an accelerated pace compared to what was traditionally possible simply due to a scarcity of resources. They're building and testing and using home studios that may not be up to all of the standards of the greatest studios of the 'golden age' but are close, and can be more powerful in some ways.

These same people are spending their nights writing, and playing, and recording their music in these home studios. They have the freedom to experiment with whatever they want, to push the boundaries of whatever style they are in without having to worry about how their music will sell. They're putting that music out for critique, and feedback. They're finding an audience, maybe not one that pays a lot yet, but one that appreciates what they're doing and drives them to want to continue doing it.

And at some point, after maybe a decade of theory, practice, feedback, and experimentation - these people are going to start graduating from high school, and that'll be the dawn of the golden age of popular music.
 
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