I shot a scene of actors walking down a hallway for example. There are lights going down the hall, but there is one window in the middle of the hall. The white balance was set to white fluorescent, since that's what the lights were, but when the actors walk past the window, along with the camera moving with them, the sunlight peering through, is blue. Of course this is because of the white balance. How in the digital world do you fix this, having a scene with two different types of light? Even if I choose one type of light to light a scene, there are windows in rooms too, and sometimes, for sake of the scene and story, you want them left open. Do you just end up having to pick which light you want shown with the incorrect balance?
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Question about white balancing.
- Thread starter harmonica44
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Use a power window in yoru grading software to change the blue area, or on the day gel the window (or gel the tubes, or replace the tubes with daylight balanced tubes).
We quite often gel windows, or black windows, or replaces bulbs depending on the intensity and colour we want from them. You could even shoot a light through the window, blacking out the areas around the light (so daylight doesn't seep in), and gel the light to match. Or sometimes, you just let it go warm or cool and live with it, or sometimes that's actually what you want.
We quite often gel windows, or black windows, or replaces bulbs depending on the intensity and colour we want from them. You could even shoot a light through the window, blacking out the areas around the light (so daylight doesn't seep in), and gel the light to match. Or sometimes, you just let it go warm or cool and live with it, or sometimes that's actually what you want.
Yup, you use gel. Either gel the window to match florescent or the other lights to match daylight.
Okay thanks. Well a lot of people who are kind enough to let me use their locations, will probably not be cool with me putting gels on their big windows. I want to use the 500 watt halogen lights cause they are bright enough for a deep focus, which is what I want for a particular scene that uses fluorescents and sunlight from the window.
I was told before to put green gel on the fluorescents. The gels have to be ordered so I need to know what kinds to use ahead of time. Now fluorescent light is yellow, on the sunlight white balance setting. And on the fluorescent setting, sunlight is purple more so. I'm guessing that means I need purple gels. Do I need to put both green and purple on, where will that just make brown and screw it up. Should I use purple only? Or something else entirely? If I change bulbs I will need to buy a new type of light to change bulbs with and not sure if that will be bright enough for deep focus. The sunlight might compensate but it might not depending on which location I end up having the best access to.
I was told before to put green gel on the fluorescents. The gels have to be ordered so I need to know what kinds to use ahead of time. Now fluorescent light is yellow, on the sunlight white balance setting. And on the fluorescent setting, sunlight is purple more so. I'm guessing that means I need purple gels. Do I need to put both green and purple on, where will that just make brown and screw it up. Should I use purple only? Or something else entirely? If I change bulbs I will need to buy a new type of light to change bulbs with and not sure if that will be bright enough for deep focus. The sunlight might compensate but it might not depending on which location I end up having the best access to.
Not sure why you'd add green to fluorescents...did you maybe mean Minus Green?
Honestly, if you're going to be ordering expendables for the scene anyways, consider just pricing out some color daylight-balanced fluorescents. Gelling everything is going to start significantly changing your exposure.
I also recommend not using preset white balances whenever you can avoid it. Light the scene, gel your lights to your specifications, and white balance on a white card.
Honestly, if you're going to be ordering expendables for the scene anyways, consider just pricing out some color daylight-balanced fluorescents. Gelling everything is going to start significantly changing your exposure.
I also recommend not using preset white balances whenever you can avoid it. Light the scene, gel your lights to your specifications, and white balance on a white card.
I thought I'd use presets to get the look I want during shooting, so I don't have to make as many changes later, and save time in post.
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Listen to Paul and Phil -- their answers in this thread are both easy to execute and perfectly effective. 
Sure. I suppose for my bright lights, the gels would work best. Should I order purple gel?
I also have tried setting to custom quite a few times, and taking a picture of white card, but it never works. I'm probably doing something wrong.
I also have tried setting to custom quite a few times, and taking a picture of white card, but it never works. I'm probably doing something wrong.
I don't white balance any more... I choose outdoor or indoor presets and gel the lights to make it look "right" for the shot/scene.
I accept that fluorescents are going to be green and sunlight is going to be blue and tungsten is going to be orange... These are simply physics facts. A human audience will expect some blue for the side fo the subject lit by the sun. As their eye scans the scene, it'll automatically be corrected out by the brain (a little, not a lot)... so I firmly believe in embracing the color differences in lighting. Take the time to play with the lights (test shooting) and figure out how to make them look good and natural. I feel that correcting out all of the color out of your sources makes it look artificial and will be harder for the audience to accept as "real."
We're trying to create a reality and every little thing that we can do will help us present it convincingly to our audiences.
You may want to pull down the green a little bit and pull down the blue a little bit from the respective sources, but you may not necessarily want to remove all of the color from them making them perfectly white across the board.
I accept that fluorescents are going to be green and sunlight is going to be blue and tungsten is going to be orange... These are simply physics facts. A human audience will expect some blue for the side fo the subject lit by the sun. As their eye scans the scene, it'll automatically be corrected out by the brain (a little, not a lot)... so I firmly believe in embracing the color differences in lighting. Take the time to play with the lights (test shooting) and figure out how to make them look good and natural. I feel that correcting out all of the color out of your sources makes it look artificial and will be harder for the audience to accept as "real."
We're trying to create a reality and every little thing that we can do will help us present it convincingly to our audiences.
You may want to pull down the green a little bit and pull down the blue a little bit from the respective sources, but you may not necessarily want to remove all of the color from them making them perfectly white across the board.
In both of these shots, the actual sunlight never got anywhere near the talent. It was too hard to control the exposure ratios with the lighting we had, so we added in the sunlight (blue) hitting the subjects on the screen left side of their faces. In the second, you can see how bright the sun would have been if we'd let it hit them. In the first, the blue reflection in the table is really from the sun, but the hair/shoulder hints of blue are added with a light off screen left to hint at the sunlight while making the key side of the face look as if it's light by indoor lights.
If we had balanced to sunlight as the predominant light, we'd have had to gel all of the tungstens with CTB to match the window, the hints of outdoor reality would be missing in these images.
If we had balanced to sunlight as the predominant light, we'd have had to gel all of the tungstens with CTB to match the window, the hints of outdoor reality would be missing in these images.
I like kind of like the blue sunlight look, and think looks cool, but the green fluorescent look, I'm not so sure about. You know what looks cool. Shooting in a room full of fluorescent light with the sunlight pouring in, and shooting with the balance set to sunlight.
The people's faces come out yellow orange, under the fluorescent, but when I add blue to the picture in post, the people's faces are nice golden skin color, and the sunlight is a nice blue. I can shoot with the balance set to sunlight for all the indoor shots with windows in order to get that look, if it's a good idea...
The people's faces come out yellow orange, under the fluorescent, but when I add blue to the picture in post, the people's faces are nice golden skin color, and the sunlight is a nice blue. I can shoot with the balance set to sunlight for all the indoor shots with windows in order to get that look, if it's a good idea...
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Absolutely... and now you've planned ahead for the time in post that you'll have to spend shifting the color and it won't take you by surprise. That's a perfectly reasonable workflow and solution that you just came up with! Neat how experience and a ton of questions will start you down a path of exploration that will eventually give you enough knowledge to MAKE solutions
One of the things I always tell people on my sets is that if they look at the monitor and something doesn't look right, they should say something and point to the screen. Most of the time, determining the problem with some degree of specificity is the first step to solving it. You pointed out the problem, we discussed the potential solutions, and you took what you've seen in the past and applied it to the problem as a solid solution.
Note that you'll sacrifice a little bit of saturation in the other colors (green and blue in this case) on the parts of the image mostly lit by the fluorescents, but it's generally an acceptable loss.
One of the things I always tell people on my sets is that if they look at the monitor and something doesn't look right, they should say something and point to the screen. Most of the time, determining the problem with some degree of specificity is the first step to solving it. You pointed out the problem, we discussed the potential solutions, and you took what you've seen in the past and applied it to the problem as a solid solution.
Note that you'll sacrifice a little bit of saturation in the other colors (green and blue in this case) on the parts of the image mostly lit by the fluorescents, but it's generally an acceptable loss.
Sure, that's one way to do it! Another is set the balance too fluorescent, in which the sunlight comes out more maroon colored, then trying to add blue in post. It makes the fluorescent look better, but not the sunlight, so I guess I will have to choose when and where for that one.
Shoot some tests and see which one retains more detail / gives you the look you want. Trust that you know what a good image looks like, even if you don't yet know how specifically to achieve them yet -- those are just solutions awaiting discovery. Trust that, inversely, you know what a bad image looks like and work toward overcoming them when they are encountered.
K. Thanks. Since we are on the subject, what white balance should I use for shooting downtown at night? One of the scenes is basically a suspense scene where a man is being followed, down the sidewalk, and there are different lights all over. Even if I do bring one or two portable lights of my own, there are still street lights and bright street signs. Do I just have to pick a balance, and am not able to get all the colors in their natural form?
white/blue... yes. With the Xenon bulbs, an outdoor setting should get you closer to the color you see on set. The sodium are so strongly colored that no matter how you push it with them, you're going to lose color fidelity as it pushes the colors away from the HEAVY orange coloring the sodium would give it.
Okay so by outdoor you mean daylight, shade, or cloudy. I will try all three of those and see which one looks the best. I thought maybe tungsten and it looks good too.
I keep trying to customize it by taking a pic of a white card, but nothing happens. Not just outdoors, I have tried this in several locations but nothing changes.
I keep trying to customize it by taking a pic of a white card, but nothing happens. Not just outdoors, I have tried this in several locations but nothing changes.