pre-pro Possible Donation Thingy????

onebaldman

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Alright, alright.... Hear me out.

Funding is very tight. Everyone is making projects, but worried about funding. Especially during apocalyptic times.

I'm trying to formulate the possibility of doing angel donations to random short films. Maybe have a vote poll, or drawing out of a random selection?

Build up donations first, then decide what projects get funding??? It would be a layer of trust of course.... But it would be a way to crowdfund outside of the standard methods a filmmaker has access to.

How could a person go about doing this successfully?

Think of something like Mr. Beast (youtube celeb), the way he does donations to random Twitch streamers or channels. I think it would be really cool to do for other filmmakers if it played out the way I'm thinking.

Is someone already doing this?
 
How could a person go about doing this successfully?

Most of the time this is a fools errand, but if you want a way to do it... Work out the answer to the "Why would they donate?" question and appeal to their why.

Why a fools errand? Most people won't watch a short film for free given the opportunity. It's a harder task to get them to pay for the promise of a future privilege they wouldn't pay for in the first place. It's why most donations will either come from a source that already has some sort of a relationship to you or from a source where you appeal to their "why".
 
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onebaldman

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Most of the time this is a fools errand, but if you want a way to do it... Work out the answer to the "Why would they donate?" question and appeal to their why.

Why a fools errand? Most people won't watch a short film for free given the opportunity. It's a harder task to get them to pay for the promise of a future privilege they wouldn't pay for in the first place. It's why most donations will either come from a source that already has some sort of a relationship to you or from a source where you appeal to their "why".

Makes sense. What if the "why" was other filmmakers supporting their own because they know how hard it is to get a film to completion, and also how much more difficult it is now?

Of course, compared to other causes, its nothing in the grand scheme.

I don't know, just a random thought. I'm honestly shocked that this isn't becoming more and more of a thing, especially now.
 

mlesemann

Staff Member
Moderator
Honestly, it's a real push for me to want to donate to a film if I don't know the person in some way, either virtually or IRL.

I want to feel that the person has some degree of appreciation for me as a person/donor, and could/would reciprocate if possible - and I rarely get that feeling.

I'm far more willing to donate if someone is open to reciprocating in some way - and I don't mean financially. I have 2 features that are available for free in the US and most of the world - if someone says they'll watch it, and if they don't hate it, leave a decent review, that's reciprocity for me. It gives me something I want and need - more views and a rising profile - for 0 expense.

But most people want something from me without offering something that I want in return.
 
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onebaldman

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Well in my mind, it would be a Youtuber that already has a loyal following.

He then takes his following with him on a live stream or something, and asks them to raid the crowdfunding campaign.

Almost exactly how they do with subs and bits on Twitch.

There are a couple of filmmakers trying to make Twitch work for them.... But its just not working. They don't get many views or followers, because I think the process of making a film is just so complicated and dull for people.

Honestly, I'm just terrible at this whole business thing. I'm too niche and hardheaded to cater to audiences. So I'm trying to brainstorm and come up with ways that I can make an impact outside of helping myself all the time.
 
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Makes sense. What if the "why" was other filmmakers supporting their own because they know how hard it is to get a film to completion, and also how much more difficult it is now?

Of course, compared to other causes, its nothing in the grand scheme.

If that's why will motivate other filmmakers to hand over their cash, then that's the why. If it won't get them to hand over their money, then it's your wishful thinking and not their "why".

Why's can be status, duty, opportunity, value proposal, obligation, peer pressure, entertainment value, emotional pull, pity, frenzy.... the list goes on and on. It's usually a combination of multiples.

You have to know your audience to know what will move them to action. As much as we'd like it to be, it's not a one size fits all. I used to work with a company about a decade back. This kind of stuff was part of my duties. It was interesting work.

Well in my mind, it would be a Youtuber that already has a loyal following.

He then takes his following with him on a live stream or something, and asks them to raid the crowdfunding campaign.

Almost exactly how they do with subs and bits on Twitch.

There are a couple of filmmakers trying to make Twitch work for them.... But its just not working. They don't get many views or followers, because I think the process of making a film is just so complicated and dull for people.

Honestly, I'm just terrible at this whole business thing. I'm too niche and hardheaded to cater to audiences. So I'm trying to brainstorm and come up with ways that I can make an impact outside of helping myself all the time.

I took a quick look at Twitch and the phychology behind games and their audience donating to Twitch channels. It's interesting and has both its subtle and not so subtle parts. Almost like appealing to a gamblers mindset combined with some sort of toxic or predatory thing. It's really wierd.

The filmmaker/youtuber who has a following has potential, depending on their value to their audience. How they milk that potential depends on the ebbs and flows of that audience.

The issue most have is they look at how they'd like things to be rather than how things are. Take your filmmakers supporting their own theory. If filmmakers supported other filmmakers, you'd find every short on youtube would have views in the 6 or 7 figure range. Watching short films on youtube doesn't cost you a thing and it's still not happening. If they're not willing to watch films to show their support, I don't see expecting more than that being reality. It might work in some alternate reality. It's unlikely to happen in our reality without some sort of behaviour shift.

One last lesson. The percieved value of what you're offering has to exceed the price you're asking. This is for each individual person. Everyone values stuff differently. It's the reason friends and family are more inclined to donate to something you're crowdfunding. It could be the social pain of not donating is greater than the amont being asked, or knowing that they're helping achieve your goal creates a good feeling beyond the value of the donation. That doesn't happen with strangers. Strangers aren't usually motivated by those kinds of reasons.
 

onebaldman

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I took a quick look at Twitch and the phychology behind games and their audience donating to Twitch channels. It's interesting and has both its subtle and not so subtle parts. Almost like appealing to a gamblers mindset combined with some sort of toxic or predatory thing. It's really wierd.
This part made me laugh, it is actually kind of stalkerish the way Twitch works. I think its because it is more like hanging out and gossiping or chatting about similar likes or topics.

You made some great points, and it sounds like you got a lot from your previous work in marketing.

I know my problem is I am too personal about these things. I support because I can, and it feels good to support other filmmakers who struggle like me. And the only way I think I would be able to make people feel the same is to show that attitude. Or possibly do a youtube series where it becomes a weekly ritual to preview crowd campaigns, and throw a $5 or $10 donation.

With your points, it probably wont make much of an impact... But I can try and take a look at the deployment or marketing of the idea a little more.
 

sfoster

Staff Member
Moderator
If you had a celebrity to champion something like this it could work.
Back in the day all oprah had to do was make you part of her book club and suddenly you were a best selling author
 
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onebaldman

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If you had a celebrity to champion something like this it could work.
Back in the day all oprah had to do was make you part of her book club and suddenly you were a best selling author

Very true! Very true! I didn't think about that....

Hmmmm, maybe not even a real celebrity, but what if I could get other filmmakers on YouTube to join me for an angel investing charity stream? Any youtube filmmaker would work if they were willing to do it.

Of course this is way off in the future. I'm not banging enough on Youtube to really do this. But I think that's a great addition to help others who are dreaming ideas too.
 
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sfoster

Staff Member
Moderator
Very true! Very true! I didn't think about that....

Hmmmm, maybe not even a real celebrity, but what if I could get other filmmakers on YouTube to join me for an angel investing charity stream? Any youtube filmmaker would work if they were willing to do it.

Of course this is way off in the future. I'm not banging enough on Youtube to really do this. But I think that's a great addition to help others who are dreaming ideas too.

Why not a real celebrity? Aim high first !! then settle later lol.

There are people like joseph gordon levitt and his website hitrecord.com that spend time trying to help out indie artists.
I looked into it and it didnt really fit into the kind of film production that I do - but it shows there are celebrities that want to give back and help out the newcomers. The fact that it's a charity and that they can stream from their home makes it even more appealing.

There is a youtube channel cinefix andthey do watch from home parties where they watch a movie and talk over it. often they get celebrities, not huge ones but still celebrities. last like month they watched hackers and they got matthew lillard to watch with everyone and do commentary and answer questions.

He's not super relevant these days but film makers all know who he is.
 

onebaldman

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indiePRO
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Why not a real celebrity? Aim high first !! then settle later lol.

There are people like joseph gordon levitt and his website hitrecord.com that spend time trying to help out indie artists.
I looked into it and it didnt really fit into the kind of film production that I do - but it shows there are celebrities that want to give back and help out the newcomers. The fact that it's a charity and that they can stream from their home makes it even more appealing.

There is a youtube channel cinefix andthey do watch from home parties where they watch a movie and talk over it. often they get celebrities, not huge ones but still celebrities. last like month they watched hackers and they got matthew lillard to watch with everyone and do commentary and answer questions.

He's not super relevant these days but film makers all know who he is.

Ooooh, I'll definitely consider that. Main thing is get over my fear of meeting new people. Then start from scratch and get popping on this Youtube channel thing.

Can't hurt to just give it a shot. Worse comes to worse... I'll be their biggest superfan. Haha.
 

indietalk

IndieTalk Founder
Staff Member
Admin
If you had a celebrity to champion something like this it could work.
Back in the day all oprah had to do was make you part of her book club and suddenly you were a best selling author
Well this is how influencers work. They push your product to "influence" the audience. They try to work it in casually instead of full on review or paid endorsement. Like a Kardashian saying she loves a new lip gloss on IG. That is paid. And then the sales start. I wonder if you could backdoor a movie with merch. In other words, get an influencer to wear your movie's shirt while promoting something else. And they casually mention the cool tee for the movie _______. That's the kind of stuff that works these days. Influencers are like cult leaders with followers.
 

indietalk

IndieTalk Founder
Staff Member
Admin
They love free stuff to wear, you could send merch out to various influencers.
 
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You made some great points, and it sounds like you got a lot from your previous work in marketing.

I know my problem is I am too personal about these things. I support because I can, and it feels good to support other filmmakers who struggle like me. And the only way I think I would be able to make people feel the same is to show that attitude. Or possibly do a youtube series where it becomes a weekly ritual to preview crowd campaigns, and throw a $5 or $10 donation.

Yeah, it wasn't all marketing. A bunch of it was strategic planning, sales and staff/client management.

The one thing I cannot stress enough. Think of it from your potential clients' perspective. It doesn't matter that you think, it matters what they think.

Take a look at crowdfunding campaigns. See what succeeds and what doesn't succeed. Take a close look at the board game category. It's more like filming than you'd expect.
 
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