Perhaps i'm over my head with super 8

S

SteveWilliams

I've recently bought a super 8 camera off of Ebay. It hasn't arrived yet but i'm excited to test it out. I started doing my research after my purchase (like an idiot). I knew that it was expensive to film but not this expensive. I found a place in NYC that will sell me the film, process, and then transfer to miniDV for 50-60$... Does this sound like a good deal. Anyone know any place cheaper that they like to use?

Also, I've purchased some film off of amazon just for testing. It's TXR 464... Is this a common film that should be easily developed by a company? Or should i try to cancel my order?

I dont know much of anything about super 8/film... Just know that i've spent years working with video trying to capture the same look as film... So i've decided to expand my hobby to the real thing.

Any help and advice would be awesome....

steve
 
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Those prices don't seem too terribly out of whack.. though they may be slightly high, last time I looked, it was roughly $12-15 for each step...

So, the raw stock is $12-15, then processing is $12-15, and transfer is $12-15 -- for EACH 50' cartridge.

So, that would work out to somewhere around $36-$45 per 50'.. (roughly 3.5minutes) prices may well have gone up some in the last year or so since I've looked though.

Ultimately you'll probably get the best deal by buying film stock straight from the manufacturer, then shipping it off somewhere for processing and telecine. I think a lot of the places that bundle the three together jack up the price somewhat, because otherwise they likely aren't making any money on the sale of the film stock.

I'm sure someone with more experience in these matters will chime in though too.

But, yes, film is significantly more expensive than shooting digitally. That's just one reason why it's best to have all of your shots planned out & storyboarded beforehand (if possible) because msot of us aren't made of $$.. ;)
 
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I don't know that its *that* far off, you may be able to do better, especially if you have 5-10 rolls to process.

If you are going to shoot a few rolls, call Kodak directly and order. It will be guaranteed factory fresh and is almost always less expensive than you can buy it from a dealer.

See these "all-in-one" deals are great for 1-3 rolls but if you are going to shoot 5+ then you can meet the "minimums" many places like Yale or AlphaCine (which now owns the famous Forde Labs) will charge you, and in the end it will work out less expensive to do it that way.

Because of your kneejerk reaction "OMG its so much more expensive!" thats why I like film in the education of filmmakers process. It FORCES you to be careful, prep, and shoot only what you really need and make it as good as possible, because that stuff running through the camera ain't a $1.94 Fuji or Sony or Maxell.

But then you get it back. And its really film. Not video made to look like film. Its like "hey, it looks like film, not video!". And then you cut it together and you're a FILMMAKER.

So then whether you decide to never shoot film again is your choice. After shooting my 16mm short on reversal in the worst of conditions I was still hooked. Film is the real f'ing deal and there is no replacement.
 
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Thanks guys... I'm looking forward to the challenge. I just hope my camera works. I've been to Kodaks site about 15 times already, do I have to order their film by phone. I cant find the option to buy over the internet.
I plan on just shooting 3 min here and there just to get the hang of it. I know that i'll enjoy it. so once I'm hooked i'll look into some of the bigger packages.
 
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I believe you do in fact have to order super8 stock by phone from Kodak, but it's worthwhile to make that call, because they'll be able to help you with any film stock questions you might have better than trying to search for the info.. You might still want to consider buying more than one or two carts at a time.. if for no other reason than to save a bit on shipping. You can always keep it in the fridge for a while before and after shooting.
 
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Yes you have to order by phone. And you should know the stock #, not the model type. eg KODAK EKTACHROME 64T Color Reversal Film 7280 is simply 8mm 7280 / KODAK VISION2 500T Color Negative Film 7218 is 8mm 7218, etc. I don't think they make double perf 8mm film any more so I don't think you have to specify that you need single perf.

UNITED STATES

California
6700 Santa Monica Boulevard
Los Angeles, California 90038-1203
Phone: 323-464-6131
Fax: 323-468-1568
Fax: 323-468-2124

New York
360 West 31st Street
New York, New York 10001-2727
Phone: 212-631-3400
Fax: 212-631-3470

United States Toll Free: 1-800-621-FILM (3456)

After hours ---> KODAK SHOOTSAVER (U.S. Only)
Film Delivery Service Phone: 800-404-2016


-------

Also, look into these guys, their rates seem very reasonable, I've been wanting to deal with them for awhile.

http://www.cinelab.com/rates.php
 
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SteveWilliams said:
I plan on just shooting 3 min here and there just to get the hang of it. I know that i'll enjoy it. so once I'm hooked i'll look into some of the bigger packages.
Click to expand...

You'll definitely have a blast. :cool:

It's not going to be very economical, just shooting three minutes, though. After the film is processed it has to be transferred to video, to edit. (Unless you just want a spool of film to watch on an actual projector). The video transfer people will have an hourly rate; usually with a 30 minute minimum. That 30 minute minimum charge works out to be about 4 or 5 cartridges of film. (Telecine is not run in real-time)

So if you go in with 1 cartridge - or 5 - it's going to end up costing eactly the same. (Plus, if you do each singly, you'll be buying a new mini-DV tape each time, as well.

CineLab appears to have a $50 minimum. Yale (who I use) have min $80 (for film chain) and $125 (for Rank)

_______

Btw, when playing around on the first few rolls, keep a mini-whiteboard & marker nearby. You can make notes on it, and film it for a few seconds before starting the real shot. That way you can track what your various settings were, followed by the actual footage with those settings. If you do the same shot with different settings, you'll know what you changed... what worked best, etc.

You can also make notes for the telecine guy on it. :P
 
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purchased some film off of amazon just for testing. It's TXR 464... Is this a common film that should be easily developed by a company?
Click to expand...

Oh yah, forgot to talk about this.

That is B&W Reversal film. It's commonly called "Tri-X". It's a fairly fast speed film, so good for low-light situations. Or you can slap a filter on the lens, if you're in bright light. (#7266)

The good ol' "Plus-X" is the standard B&W Reversal for daylight/brighter areas. (#7265)

Any lab that processes B&W Reversal film will be able to handle what've already purchased. I've no idea how old that stock is, though. If it's really old, it might come out looking like ass - unless it's been well taken care of. :bag:

Edit: Just looked up your TXR 464 again. It should have a film code of 7278 on it. That's a retired filmstock: Linkage

Edit II: What kind of camera did you pick up, btw?
 
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since purchasing the film, i've found a lot more places to buy stocks instead of amazon.
I bought a canon 514XL for pretty cheap off of ebay. Just trying to see if I like it and if i can afford it before jumping to a better camera. I haven't received it in the mail yet, so right now i'm just hoping it works. If it doesn't then i guess i'll be buying another.
 
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Zensteve said:
_______

Btw, when playing around on the first few rolls, keep a mini-whiteboard & marker nearby. You can make notes on it, and film it for a few seconds before starting the real shot. That way you can track what your various settings were, followed by the actual footage with those settings. If you do the same shot with different settings, you'll know what you changed... what worked best, etc.

You can also make notes for the telecine guy on it. :P
Click to expand...

Thanks for the idea. I guess its going to be a little different messing with the settings and not seeing the results immediately in the view finder.
 
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SteveWilliams said:
I bought a canon 514XL
Click to expand...

Cool. :cool:

I just looked up the specs, and it appears that it has a max of 18 fps.

That's going to be very important to relay to whomever telecines your footage. The "standard" is 24 fps. The telecine lab won't know whether you intended to shoot at 18 fps (to extend the length of the film), or if you shot at 18 fps to be replayed at 24 fps (for a fast-motion effect).

You'll get extra value out of each film cartridge, at any rate. At 18 fps your cartridge will last about 3min 20 secs. (It's only 2 1/2 mins at 24 fps).

since purchasing the film, i've found a lot more places to buy stocks instead of amazon.
Click to expand...

Dude, others have already mentioned it - buy right from Kodak. Buying from anywhere else is going to involve some kind of markup, and also run the possibility of buying crap stock.

Here's the current choice of stocks: Linkage

Here's the full catalog (with Super-8 catalog #'s): Linkage

:)
 
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ZenSteve... thanks for all of the help. I'll plan on ordering my film from Kodak in the near future. Which is the best
Film that i can buy for my camera. Any recommendations?
Also, What do you think about the Nikon R8? There is a camera store where I used to live in FL and the guy has one for sell. If the Canon doesn't work for any reason I plan on buying that one from him. Or do you have a better model to recommend? My budget for a camera is fairly low since i'm just getting into this and crossing over from video. My wife would kill me if i spent decent money on something at this point.

Thanks again for all the advice...

Will... I printed out the link to the "zone system"... I'm going to do my best to understand how it works. My goal is to be proficient at shooting on film.. I know i have a lot of obstacles in front of me.
 
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I love the Nikon R10. An excellent lens made all the difference. That
camera is my second fav of all the super8's I own.

I don't recall what the difference is - but I assume it's minor. The
shutter, maybe? I'm sure the Nikon lens on the R8 is excellent.

I also own the Canon 514XL - it does shoot 24fps.
 
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