"One Page per Minute" = SUCKS!!

[Birdman]

Whose idea was this anyway?

I'm having difficulty with this brutally severe "1 page per minute" philosophy regarding writing a screenplay. I envision scenes within my head and I try to convey these images within my script. I'm on page 19 right now, but it doesn't seem like 19 minutes of film footage has passed by. I fear I'm looking at a 3-hour butt-nummer of a movie when I'm finally finished. Here are my issues:

(1) In "Lord of The Rings" we have a spectacular scene where Gandalf races down the side of a mountain with a huge army of horse-bound soldiers in a surprise attack on the attacking enemy. He has the sun at his back creating an extremely memorable scene with amazing special effects. Any movie goer would be truly amazed at the scene in a theater. Here's my issue:

To keep with the "page-per-minute" dogma, one might write this scene as done here:

=========================================

EXT. SIDE OF MOUNTAIN - DAY

Gandalf and a legion of horse-mounted soldiers race down the side of a mountain with the sun blazing behind them. They attack the unsuspecting enemy.

=========================================

So here we have a small, emotionless, robotic section of screenplay script depicting one of the most powerful cinemagraphic scenes in movie history. It's quickly spat out in a couple of fairly unflattering sentences. To read the two sentences written above in no way adequately depicts what happens in the movie ...but if you start adding in any extra detail to try and emphasize the importance of the scene you endanger breaking the "page per minute" rule. ....What do you do????

In contrast:

(2) If you have a back and forth conversation going on between two characters you could end up with several pages of script that only translates to 20 seconds or so of film footage. For example:

====================================

INT. KITCHEN - DAY

JOE

You suck!

SAM

No I don't

JOE

Yes you do!

SAM

Screw you!

JOE

NO! ...Screw you!

SAM

No, Go screw yourself!

etc.

etc.

etc.

So here we have a scene with a quick, rapid fire verbal exchange. Your text quickly moves down the page much faster than a second hand on a clock. This exchange could easily eat up three pages of script but only translate to 20 or so seconds of film footage. ...What do you do?



Is the overall idea that everything will balance out in the end? In other words, some pages exceed the "page per minute" rule but they end up being balanced by scenes with quick exchanges that use much less script time?

-Birdman

P.S. I am very disappointed on how restrictive these scripts become based on the "page per minute" rule. I don't see how anyone could ever truly understand what I'm seeing within my mind based on the extremely limited amount of script space I'm allowed to use for communication what I see. I'm finding that a script for a typical 105 minute movie that is now ready for production is ending up 187 pages long. The rule doesn't seem to apply here. ...Why is that? .......Also, if you are a well-known script writer you get to exceed the "page per minute" rule. Why is one "equally creative" person allowed to blatantly break the formatting rules whereas another is not?

 

[Birdman]

Tell me, how long did it take to get Lord of the Rings made into a feature film? Is your story that good? Are you willing to wait that long?

Well, I had to block Spielberg's phone number. ...He's such a pest.

If I didn't believe it was that good I wouldn't still be working on it. Page 42 of the first draft and loving every second of it.

-Birdman

 

[PhantomScreenwriter]

Peter Jackson et al began working on a version of Lord of the Rings in 1997

Sorry I have nothing to add to this topic other than this but I couldn't resist

 

[Jack Lynt]

You should totally go for it, Birdman. Finish the screenplay. Work your butt off to get it seen by the right people. See what happens. Who knows?

What people are trying to caution you about are unrealistic expectations. For example, I don't think that we should yet concede your point that you, as a newbie, if that's what you are, have as much chance of getting your screenplay bought, greenlit, made, or even passed on by a reader as any other guy out there.

Damon Lindelof, for example. If the next guy happens to be Damon Lindelof, does your script have as much chance as his to be given even the time of day? Probably not, right? I'm guessing that such a writer as he no longer even need go through that processes in the same way as the ocean of aspiring writers clamoring for attention.

The unfortunate truth is that if you're an unknown, then probably your chances of getting this incredible action-scifi-spectacle sold, made, and made in the way you want it made, are so slim as to be unmeasurable, virtually unheard of. I'm sure that even a Damon Lindelof can't reasonably expect that...unless maybe it's his buddy J.J. Abrams making the picture.

I don't think anyone here...well, I don't think most everyone here means to kill your spirit, Birdman.

I've always remembered reading an artist's advice which was that an artist needs to have a fanatical belief in him or herself and in his work to survive as an artist and to carry on making his art. If the artist doesn't have this fanatical belief in himself, then no else will, or is likely to. And the artist will likely give up, as most artists do. Apparently.

Yeah. That rings true, I think.

I suppose that's what we're witnessing here in you.

That's a good thing.

But it's probably also a good thing in the business you're trying to break into to realize that the odds are pretty miserable. And no one, or at least almost no one, means to discourage you from writing, from writing just the way you want to, or from trying to do it your way, as the song goes, by telling you about this sad fact of life.

Sure, some are advising you to think a little or a lot smaller because they know what's more likely to go anywhere, and they know what's likely to end up going nowhere.

And some are saying, "you go, gurl," but also trying to save you some of the pain, or ameliorate the disappointment you're likely to experience when you run into the harsh realities of "the machine," as you put it, by trying to sober your expectations up a bit.

And, maybe someone already suggested this. It usually, and reasonably comes up. Maybe this amazing spectacle you're creating should be a novel. Then, only your imagination, and your imagination alone, is the limit. The budget is unlimited. No one's going to tell you that you can't have your Six-legged Giant Morknockt Lizard on page 446 because there's no VFX budget for it or because that sort of thing doesn't test well with thirteen to twenty-eight year old females. And sometimes books do get made into films. =)

 

[PhantomScreenwriter]

^Great post - good to see positive yet realistic thinking.

We all have our own way of getting to the same point so while one path seems unwise to one, it may be wise to the other.

I think that to put limits on the imagination isn't a productive way to utilize it. Sure, there's going to be budget and other cost concerns but at the outset letting your imagination dream up and create massive set pieces and ideas is healthy for your mind.

 

[Birdman]

What people are trying to caution you about are unrealistic expectations. For example, I don't think that we should yet concede your point that you, as a newbie, if that's what you are, have as much chance of getting your screenplay bought, greenlit, made, or even passed on by a reader as any other guy out there.

...The biggest problem is the majority of posters here don't understand my point. I have never said that I stand as much of a chance as Tarantino at getting my screenplay sold. What I have stated all along is that ...and here it is again ...as long as I don't do anything to kill it along the way, I have just as much of an "opportunity" to get my script purchased as Tarantino or anyone else for that matter.

If I haven't nixed my script via some technical formatting blunder, then my script will move on up the ladder to the next stage. If I don't blow it at the next stage, then it moves on up the ladder to the stage after that ........AS LONG AS I DON'T KILL IT ALLONG THE WAY!

If I have no technical issues with my script, then yes, I have just as much of an "opportunity" to get my script sold. All I have to do is write a kick ass movies script and keep plugging away. If this were not true, then there would never be any "new screenplay writers" ever getting recognized.

The same can be said for any other profession or endeavor.

EXAMPLES:

If I am in good physical health, no nasty criminal record, no unfavorable affiliations and the desire deep inside ...then I have just as much "opportunity" to be a professional baseball pitcher as anyone else.

(1) If I can accurately throw a 105MPH fastball and I meet the requirements listed above, then you can bet your sweet ass someone will sign me to a MLB team.

(2) If I am a member of the KKK , or have a nasty criminal record, or a drug addiction ...then even though I can throw a mean fast ball I have already nixed my future as a MLB player.

(3) If I meet all the requirements listed above but can only throw an 80MPH fastball, then I probably won't end up being a MLB player ...but the OPPORTUNITY was still there! I just didn't have the skills to pull it off.

Now what I'm getting from most of the posters here is more of a "defeatist" attitude regarding script writing.

"Unless you know someone in the industry you'll never make it".

"Unless you've written a lot of screenplays you won't get anything sold".

"Nobody will want your script because you are an unknown writer".

...and I'm sorry, people, but if you all truly feel this way, then you've already nixed your chances at success with your own defeatist attitude towards your own creation. Doesn't matter if you've met all the technical requirements and skillful execution. .........You simply don't believe in success!

-Birdman

 

[baoliun]

If you love what you are doing you will keep doing it no matter what. Against all odds,reason and logic. Edison with a lightbullb, penicillin invention etc. etc. Good luck!

 

[Birdman]

I apologize. I won't press keys on my keyboard in conversation with you again.

I'm sorry to have offended you.

directorik,

Something I've noticed about you. If someone doesn't fully agree with your opinion or you don't receive a follow-up post fast enough, ...you want to pick up your ball and go home.

....Do you do the same with your movie scripts?



Also, the word "offended" is WAY overused in today's society. To the point that it has become a cop-out.

(1) If someone farts next to me while I'm eating a sandwich, ...then yes, ...I'm offended.

(2) If someone has an opinion in direct opposition of mine, ...then no ...I'm not offended.

-Birdman

 

[PhantomScreenwriter]

Sylvester Stallone and Rocky is a great example of someone who defied the odds through sheer determination and perseverence. At any point Stallone could have relented and given up his desire to play the title role and have it cast with another actor but he continued to insist he was to portray Rocky and the rest is history.

Moral of the story - sometimes you just have to keep believing in your ability no matter what obstacle is in your way trying to derail you.

 

[knightly]

As a producer, I always tell writers the same thing… write the story in your head. It's someone else's job to figure out logistics.

As an editor, the script you write will NEVER end up on screen. rewrites, reedits, changes made on set, sweeping changes in the editing room.

As a pragmatist, know that it's a difficult trade/craft. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

I put out a call for scripts a while back… I received hundreds of replies, most of which I couldn't get past page one.
--I decided to give each 5 pages guaranteed read time and would determine if I continued reading from there. Grammar, Spelling, Punctuation -- please god!
-- If that 5 pages passed and I found I wanted to continue reading, then I'd open to 3 random pages and see if there was a 50/50 balance of action to dialog on each page.
-- At that point, it was a "produceable" script… usually needed edits (often quite a few passes to be a good story for screen rather than the page).

If I can't put the script down, I contact immediately to discuss terms.

 

[knightly]

Oh, and to the initial question, The 1pg=1min is strictly for producing, not for writing. A 50/50 blend of dialog to action as an average throughout a script is what I look for as a producer. many notes in the margins of my printout of the script "TMD" (Too Much Dialog). The writers often think it's brilliant… but once an actor actually has to deliver the lines, they stink. Some pass of the editing should be done out loud with others reading the parts and the writer sitting back and taking notes… there simply aren't as many script writers who can write Tarantino / KSmith -esque dialog as there are script writers who think they can.

As a filmmaker, I'd rather show a scene and have the dialog support that scene rather than shooting it like a stage play with nothing but dialog to hang its hat on.

None of this is to say that long dialogs are unnecessary, but when I have to schedule 50 people on a location for X # of days, I want know know how many days I'll have to get them before making that phone call… that's down through page count and pages / day, I shoot 3-5 pgs/day… I can shoot faster, but the resulting footage sucks and needs to be reshot frequently.

So I know a 110 page script takes from 22-36 days for my crew to get a quality product at the other end. a small crew of 10 = 220 - 360 people days of labor. at a $100/day (super low wage), we're talking $2200-$3600 just in crew… I personally charge $350/day (12 hrs, over a decade of experience) to DP, which is really low in this area (Central MN) and ridiculously low on the coasts.

You can see why the page count thing becomes important once it leaves your hands. As a writer, concern yourself with getting it on paper first, then worry about the other pieces. Don't think you're brilliant, you're not… neither is any other working writer, nor were the masters… they plugged away at their craft for years before producing a script worthy of being called artistic, or even good.

Plug away at it.

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

Sylvester Stallone and Rocky is a great example of someone who defied the odds through sheer determination and perseverence. At any point Stallone could have relented and given up his desire to play the title role and have it cast with another actor but he continued to insist he was to portray Rocky and the rest is history.

Moral of the story - sometimes you just have to keep believing in your ability no matter what obstacle is in your way trying to derail you.

Remember Raging Bull?