Okay, let's make this personal. History Repeats.

Hi! Old-timers know exactly who I am. Old-timers know that I was once maybe a little too brash, and that's putting it mildly. I was kinda a jerk sometimes. I didn't mean to be, it just took me a while to learn how to do this online interaction thing.

Old-timers also know that I made a feature film on a nothing budget, with a nothing crew and a nobody cast. A lot of people tried to talk me out of doing it. Like, they REALLY tried to talk me out of doing it, even when I was in production.

I also got a lot of great advice. I received a wealth of meaningful support and encouragement. I wanna give a big shout-out to directorik - your advice has actually helped shape my life, in a good way. I sincerely credit the IT community for being largely responsible for me arriving at the place I'm at, artistically speaking.

What happened with that feature film? It didn't get me what I wanted, but if you try sometimes, you just may find, you get what you need. If I could go back in time, I wouldn't change a thing.

Antihero was never intended to make money, and that much is well-documented, publicly. My original intent for the film was to somehow show what I'm capable of, as a director, so that I might somehow attract investors to fund my second feature film. From that perspective, Antihero failed.

However, a lot of great things came from it. First of all, I learned a lot of valuable lessons in how to and how not to make a tiny-budget feature film. More importantly, though it didn't get the attention of investors, it absolutely got the attention of talented actors and crew members. I now exclusively work with legit talented and dedicated actors. It also got me noticed on IT, which led to a handful of both paid and unpaid jobs as editor and behind-the-scenes documentarian. It resulted in a whole bunch of networking and collaborating.

In a couple of different threads, I've taken a bit of flack for trying to recruit a professional audio guy to be a partner on my next feature film. I wanted someone who was willing to invest their time in my next project as a true partner, a co-producer. Cynics criticized me for trying to get pro audio people to "donate" their time.

Here's the kicker -- I got a partner, exactly the one I wanted. And I'm pretty sure their commitment to be involved in my next feature is largely attributable to the minor successes I had with Antihero.

I hate to brag. Sincerely, I hate to brag. But I kinda have to, in order to make my point here. How many feature films are made on a budget of less than $10K? Lots. It's kinda ridiculous how many. How many of those gain a theatrical release? Cuz mine did. It was only one week, and only one theater, but even that paltry success is far greater than most tiny-budget features ever see.

How many tiny-budget features have a page on rottentomatoes?

And all this came from a film that many "experts" told me I shouldn't make, a film that wasn't ever intended to land in theaters or on rottentomatoes. Why can't you see it yet? Because the distribution offer I received was not satisfactory to me.

So yeah, all of you naysayers, please continue to tell me how my plan for my next feature, a plan you know nothing of, is destined to fail.

I swim in your hater-aid. It keeps me awake. Please, for the future of my success, keep hating on my projects.

EDIT: Removed reference to a specific person, cuz I realized that was wrong to do so. Also, allow me to clarify -- as I state later in this thread, no I of course don't actually want to be hated on. This thread was actually an attempt to shut it down.
 
Last edited:
8k budget. Nice, but I gotta quote my favorite poker movie "Where did you come up with the scratch for that? You've been rolling fags in the Village again, haven't you?"

Isn't that like 70 views a year? Cha-ching! As Jerry Maguire would say, "Show me the money!"

Hope you don't mind me asking but what was the takings? The cinema trackers didn't have the numbers. I guess not enough to finance the next flick?

That review is pure gold:
I wasn't annoyed by the quality of the filming, and the story reminds me of some people who used to live right down the street from me!

What caused that quote?

How many of those gain a theatrical release?

As much as I'd hate to feed on your tears, I don't think one cinema is technically a theatrical release... But if so, friggin awesome. Most of my failures... ahem... films have had theatrical releases! Woot!

Was that some camera audio I heard in the trailer?

Need more hate or was that the right fan-hatter-mail or do you need me to crack open the Ford Fairlane quotes?
 
8k budget. Nice, but I gotta quote my favorite poker movie "Where did you come up with the scratch for that? You've been rolling fags in the Village again, haven't you?"

Isn't that like 70 views a year? Cha-ching! As Jerry Maguire would say, "Show me the money!"

Hope you don't mind me asking but what was the takings? The cinema trackers didn't have the numbers. I guess not enough to finance the next flick?

That review is pure gold:


What caused that quote?



As much as I'd hate to feed on your tears, I don't think one cinema is technically a theatrical release... But if so, friggin awesome. Most of my failures... ahem... films have had theatrical releases! Woot!

Was that some camera audio I heard in the trailer?

Need more hate or was that the right fan-hatter-mail or do you need me to crack open the Ford Fairlane quotes?

That was pretty good, haha. I like it because I know you're coming from a positive place. That was some funny shit you just sent my way. Bravo! :D

Though I believe much of what you said was half in jest, half serious, I'll answer some questions and respond to comments. The $8K budget was an early estimate. It ended up being more like $10K, and that's of course not including the costly festival submission fees. Where did I get the money? My own pockets.

Yeah, the lone review on rottentomatoes is one that irks me, not because it's inaccurate or spiteful but because it's from a dude I know, so I wish he'd have done me a solid by just blowing hot air up my ass. Cuz it's rotten-fucking-tomatoes. Though it's only one line, it's actually a very fair review. And, by the way, when he says that it reminds him of people he knew, he's being literal. The climactic finale was shot in this dude's house. There are other, longer reviews out there. And they are positive. Also, the film won Best Narrative Feature from the Columbia Gorge International Film Fest, and a few other awards at other fests.

No, there's no camera audio in the trailer, or any of the film. But I definitely suck at audio, so it doesn't surprise me that you'd think any portions to be in-cam. Hey, remember that other thread where I successfully recruited a professional audio guy to help me do things better on my next feature?

And yes, one theater definitely counts as a theatrical release. I didn't rent a theater. It wasn't a release party. It played in an actual multiplex, a national chain multiplex, for one week, with multiple showtimes daily. The poster was on their wall for weeks ahead of the opening. Right next to the posters of multi-million-dollar Hollywood films. Yes, this was an actual theatrical run. That's why it's on rottentomatoes. I came really close to getting reviews from big media outlets, but alas, it didn't happen.

How much did it take in at the box office? Significantly less than the budget. Advertising is a bitch. I had no money for advertising. This movie definitely lost money. As I openly predicted it would, both to people online and to my cast/crew. And yet everyone involved came out feeling like a champ. Funny how that works.

The next film is for profit. This is another thing I've been publicly open about for many years.
 
Oh it played in a theater? that's nice. Problem is that's not how people watch film these days. They watch it for free/instantly on the internet. Big dumb movies took over the movie theaters with their 10 screens of Superman Vs. ISIS, no-budget filmmakers have no business at the multi-plex. Please prefer intimacy in the future. Wine? Good Food? A small cadre of trusted confidants? That's the way it should be, ask for honesty and then go from there- ask for money, haha. I hope you knew you where blowing your money as you continuously spent precious few dollars you had to make a theatrical release happen for reasons of pure vanity.

Next time, burn 10,000 copies and hand it out for free- to anyone. But more like "smart" looking people- people with influence ie. lawyers. You started networking? Good, because you're just getting started, you got to sell that shit like it's a cocaine encrusted gold watch. How many $8,000 features are you going to want to make? Two? Ten? Since you care about getting exposure more than anything else, hand it out to 100 ppl a day IF you think you've got what people want to watch. Don't hand it out unless it's Grade A shit. Everyone makes a string of misses, sometimes expensive ones- feature ones, before they have a hit. I keep the student films as learning tools unfit for public consumption.

Your talent will carry you far or it won't at all and you'll get to know it right away. If you're trying to make money ever on any no-budget feature, good luck. You're just spinning your wheels, nobody fucking cares enough for you to make a profit and you'll get discourage and you're done. You never know who's going to end up watching it though--that can be in a position to help you out.

It's about who watches your film not how many people watch your film.

Focus on showcasing your talents as an artist without regard to good taste, copyright, actor's safety, legal permission- just go fucking crazy and impress the shit out of whomever watches it. Trust me, you'll get feedback if you're doing it right.
 
Oh it played in a theater? that's nice. Problem is that's not how people watch film these days. They watch it for free/instantly on the internet. Big dumb movies took over the movie theaters with their 10 screens of Superman Vs. ISIS, no-budget filmmakers have no business at the multi-plex. Please prefer intimacy in the future. Wine? Good Food? A small cadre of trusted confidants? That's the way it should be, ask for honesty and then go from there- ask for money, haha. I hope you knew you where blowing your money as you continuously spent precious few dollars you had to make a theatrical release happen for reasons of pure vanity.

I didn't spend any money to get it in a theater. I made lots of phone calls. Sent lots of emails. And it wasn't for vanity. I wanted it to be reviewed by "real" film critics, the ones that have hundreds of thousands of readers. And dammit, I came really close to making that happen. If I'd had any money at the time, I would've spent it on legitimate local marketing. But I didn't have any money at the time.

Sadly, I kinda agree with you -- for the most part, indie films don't really belong at the multiplex. There are exceptions. Mine wasn't one of them.

How many $8,000 features are you going to want to make? Two? Ten? Since you care about getting exposure more than anything else, hand it out to 100 ppl a day IF you think you've got what people want to watch.

As many as I want! I don't care about exposure more than anything else. When did I ever say that? I care about the art more than anything else! I'm starting to feel like I'm the only person on this forum who makes movies because I enjoy making movies. That can't be true. I know it's not true. Yeah, Hollywood is a business. But let's not forget that filmmaking is an art!

It's about who watches your film not how many people watch your film.

I half agree with that. Yeah, I want very much to get noticed by people in Hollywood who might want to make me their next indie darling. But that's just my individual hopes for me. If we're only talking about the hopes for the film, then how many people see it definitely means a lot.

Thanks for your thoughts! And I look forward to that beer!
 
Aww shucks....

Glad I could help. I think what you did was brave and important.
I remember being stunned by how many fellow filmmakers tried
to talk you out of making a movie the way you wanted to make
a movie.

And it's STILL happening here in indietalk.
 
I hate to brag. Sincerely, I hate to brag. But I kinda have to, in order to make my point here. How many feature films are made on a budget of less than $10K? Lots. It's kinda ridiculous how many. How many of those gain a theatrical release? Cuz mine did. It was only one week, and only one theater, but even that paltry success is far greater than most tiny-budget features ever see.

Dude, this didn't "gain" a theatrical release. Gaining implies that someone approached you about giving you a theatrical release. Instead what you did was...

I didn't spend any money to get it in a theater. I made lots of phone calls. Sent lots of emails. And it wasn't for vanity. I wanted it to be reviewed by "real" film critics, the ones that have hundreds of thousands of readers.

So you busted your ass and got it in "a" theater. Which shouldn't be scoffed at, by no means. But I also wouldn't necessarily get as excited about it in comparison to other filmmakers.

I understand that the circumstances are indeed different, but I've had two short films shown in "a" theater during a festival, along with numerous other people. Did we get a "theatrical release?" Not really, because showing the accepted and winning films of a festival or competition in one or two theaters is basically a given, so long as the theater(s) in question is a real one and not some gymnasium or a conference hall projection screen. I also understand that shorts have a far greater rate of being shown in such a setting than a feature-length indie film, but even so.
 
As many as I want! I don't care about exposure more than anything else. When did I ever say that? I care about the art more than anything else! I'm starting to feel like I'm the only person on this forum who makes movies because I enjoy making movies. That can't be true. I know it's not true. Yeah, Hollywood is a business. But let's not forget that filmmaking is an art!

This right here is the fundamental difference between you and a large amount of filmmakers out there: you don't care about exposure, and simply wish to pursue filmmaking as an personally expressive hobby.

It's a hard thing to wrap one's head around, because everyone in the film world wants exposure: Everyone. Because that is what gets people with connections and money to notice you and potentially give you bigger and better opportunities. And maybe you do like exposure too, but you have a bit more indifference to whether your get a little, a lot, or none at all.

I can't quite tell whether this is foolish or only just a bit removed from the rest of us. We all call for favors, we all ask for people to donate their time if they can (whether they are just friends, local business owners or workmen, artistic professionals, or not), we all have asked for people to fund or support our efforts often in return for very little reward, and we all pursue these films because we enjoy making them and seeing them finished. But a big incentive for all involved is the promise, or at least the hope, that the film in question will go around and get shown somewhere: that the director/producer will work hard to make deals and get some return on the money and time invested. That's what makes people more excited to work with you: because of the prospects, even if nothing is certain.

However, I don't know how much success you've had in gathering together a cast or crew before, or how big your cast and crew has been. But I have my doubts that you can continue with this mode of thinking and this model of production for too long before people realize that it isn't worth it to them since you "don't care about exposure," even if you have made sure to tell them all this from the start. And since you make films for so little cash I can only assume that money has gone towards the locations, the props, the costumes, and the craft services: which means you aren't paying anybody.

So I'm curious, do you convince people to work with you because of the story, because of the beauty of creating art for art's sake, or because of something else? Cause I gotta tell ya, you haven't yet supplied a tangible reason for why anyone should work with you, other than your boundless enthusiasm: which is something, I'll grant you that.
 
Last edited:
This right here is the fundamental difference between you and a large amount of filmmakers out there: you don't care about exposure, and simply wish to pursue filmmaking as an personally expressive hobby.

Bullshit. He's a prostitute like everyone else. Any 23yo can say he's an artist, try saying that when you're 47, twice divorced with irritable bowl syndrome. Kinda hard then. God, my asshole itches.
 
Aww shucks....

Glad I could help. I think what you did was brave and important.
I remember being stunned by how many fellow filmmakers tried
to talk you out of making a movie the way you wanted to make
a movie.

And it's STILL happening here in indietalk.

Thanks! I think you're gonna like what I've got planned next. A lot of what I'll be including in the big idea (not the next feature, but what's leading up to the next feature) is coming straight from you. I think you'll recognize a lot of the theories that I'm about to espouse on YT.

Dude, this didn't "gain" a theatrical release. Gaining implies that someone approached you about giving you a theatrical release. Instead what you did was...



So you busted your ass and got it in "a" theater. Which shouldn't be scoffed at, by no means. But I also wouldn't necessarily get as excited about it in comparison to other filmmakers.

I understand that the circumstances are indeed different, but I've had two short films shown in "a" theater during a festival, along with numerous other people. Did we get a "theatrical release?" Not really, because showing the accepted and winning films of a festival or competition in one or two theaters is basically a given, so long as the theater(s) in question is a real one and not some gymnasium or a conference hall projection screen. I also understand that shorts have a far greater rate of being shown in such a setting than a feature-length indie film, but even so.

I understand your logic, and that's fine. But I'm not a fan of mincing words. I could retort by telling you that I self-distributed a theatrical release, and that would be technically true. Who cares? The point is that I definitely have something I can be proud of and build off that success. The brief theatrical run I got cannot be compared to a short getting into a festival. One of these things is not like the other. How many feature films with a $10K budget and a two-person crew have seen anything like this?

901384_10200612608667947_1473738204_o.jpg
[/url][/IMG]

Again, I feel real icky bragging like this. My point is not to make myself look big. Really, I'm just hoping to stop the bullying by confronting the bully. All throughout eighth grade I was bullied relentlessly. I was the token white kid in a school of 1,000 Pacific Islanders, and one kid in particular made my daily life hell. I literally ran from him, over and over, him swinging a belt with a very large buckle (this actually happened).

In the first week of ninth grade, I finally stood up to him. Punched him right in the face, right in front of my very large PE Class, with the teacher just a few feet away. He never bullied me again. And you wanna know the best part? We became friends. On the basketball courts, he and I became friendly rivals. We loved playing against each other (we were both centers), and the friendly rivalry extended into adulthood.

So let me tell anyone trying to talk down to me on IT. I've been through this before. In spite of all the negativity that I received with Antihero, I'm very happy with what I got out of it. You can continue to pooh-pooh all over my next project, Rage of the Fire, but your efforts will be in vein. I'm making the movie. I'm making it my way, and I'm confident that a lot of good will come out of it, both for me and anyone else who gets involved.

This right here is the fundamental difference between you and a large amount of filmmakers out there: you don't care about exposure, and simply wish to pursue filmmaking as an personally expressive hobby.

It's a hard thing to wrap one's head around, because everyone in the film world wants exposure: Everyone. Because that is what gets people with connections and money to notice you and potentially give you bigger and better opportunities. And maybe you do like exposure too, but you have a bit more indifference to whether your get a little, a lot, or none at all.

I can't quite tell whether this is foolish or only just a bit removed from the rest of us. We all call for favors, we all ask for people to donate their time if they can (whether they are just friends, local business owners or workmen, artistic professionals, or not), we all have asked for people to fund or support our efforts often in return for very little reward, and we all pursue these films because we enjoy making them and seeing them finished. But a big incentive for all involved is the promise, or at least the hope, that the film in question will go around and get shown somewhere: that the director/producer will work hard to make deals and get some return on the money and time invested. That's what makes people more excited to work with you: because of the prospects, even if nothing is certain.

However, I don't know how much success you've had in gathering together a cast or crew before, or how big your cast and crew has been. But I have my doubts that you can continue with this mode of thinking and this model of production for too long before people realize that it isn't worth it to them since you "don't care about exposure," even if you have made sure to tell them all this from the start. And since you make films for so little cash I can only assume that money has gone towards the locations, the props, the costumes, and the craft services: which means you aren't paying anybody.

So I'm curious, do you convince people to work with you because of the story, because of the beauty of creating art for art's sake, or because of something else? Cause I gotta tell ya, you haven't yet supplied a tangible reason for why anyone should work with you, other than your boundless enthusiasm: which is something, I'll grant you that.

I can see how you would think that I don't want exposure. Perhaps that's my fault for mis-stating things. No, I definitely want EVERYONE to see my movie. I especially want Hollywood producers to see my movie. I very much hope they'll like it and want to give jobs to me and everyone who takes part. I very much want this movie to make money, and I have an exhaustive plan on how I think I can make that happen. Can I guarantee that it will happen? Of course not, this is a gamble.

But, what I'm saying about being an artist is that this is how I enjoy life. Taking the risk is fun for me, so even if the gamble doesn't pay off, I will still have enjoyed my time, and time enjoyed is never time wasted. :)
 
I can see how you would think that I don't want exposure. Perhaps that's my fault for mis-stating things. No, I definitely want EVERYONE to see my movie. I especially want Hollywood producers to see my movie. I very much hope they'll like it and want to give jobs to me and everyone who takes part. I very much want this movie to make money, and I have an exhaustive plan on how I think I can make that happen. Can I guarantee that it will happen? Of course not, this is a gamble.

But, what I'm saying about being an artist is that this is how I enjoy life. Taking the risk is fun for me, so even if the gamble doesn't pay off, I will still have enjoyed my time, and time enjoyed is never time wasted. :)

I am starting to get the feeling that the way you write your posts is giving everyone the wrong impression. And believe me, I should know. It's very hard to be yourself and speak your mind without everyone taking what you say either literally or to its farthest negative interpretations. I have even done so with your posts.

From what I can see, though, you're just a guy who likes to put his passion front and center rather than talk shop about the finer points of how to precisely get things done. You put motivational phrases before technically accurate advise. Is this wrong? No. Is this appropriate for this forum? I think it's a fair enough viewpoint to share. Because if we just tore everyone down for having a "Hakuna Matata" attitude about their love of film, then we'd be doing everyone a disservice by tearing down the general morale.

Yes. Giving realistic advice and imparting balanced wisdom is important. But maybe it's also important to hold back harder criticisms from and appreciate the so-called "Hype Men" when we see them: which I think you are one, Cracker Funk. You stand for the purity of loving the art-form of film in lieu of giving everyone the rundown of how cut-throat the business is. We may not entirely agree with what you say or at least with how you say it and present it, but I can honestly tell you that I am just as passionate about film as you are, and I have taken many personal risks in pursuing what I think is best and what I think is doable, because I have faith in myself and my perseverance.

I'm incredibly picky, I'm incredibly critical, I'm incredibly particular about details and clarity of ideas. So I can get pretty in-depth with my responses and criticisms. Essentially, I have a very specific view about how films should be made and/or how director's should approach their work aside from artistic integrity. Beyond all stylistic choices, I think every director should strive for excellence in every film they make, because only they know how their film should look. And if they have an idea for their films clearly in their heads, then they should commit themselves to getting their films as close to that image as possible. Anything less, in my opinion, betrays one's vision as well as oneself. You should be willing to go that extra mile, climb that last mountain, or swim that last stretch of water before you say "that's it, I'm done." Because if the only thing standing between me and my film getting done really is just me, then I don't stop until it's done and exactly the way I want it.

This is how I like to work, and it works for me. And so if what you do works for you, Cracker Funk, then we can't say that it doesn't. If it turns out you screw up and fail, it really isn't our fault. Should we be concerned about filmmakers failing? Yeah, I think so. But should we discourage modes of thinking that lead to failure by saying your just stupid? No. What good does that do?

Honestly, why should we care one way or the other? You do your thing and we'll do ours. If you want a critique on a piece of work you've done, then I'll critique it my way, AudioPostExpert will do it his way, or Sweetie will do it his way. But at the end of the day, you'll either take our advice--good or bad--or you won't. It's your life and your career. So just keep doing you. Cause I'm actually starting to appreciate it. lol
 
I am starting to get the feeling that the way you write your posts is giving everyone the wrong impression. And believe me, I should know. It's very hard to be yourself and speak your mind without everyone taking what you say either literally or to its farthest negative interpretations. I have even done so with your posts.

From what I can see, though, you're just a guy who likes to put his passion front and center rather than talk shop about the finer points of how to precisely get things done. You put motivational phrases before technically accurate advise. Is this wrong? No. Is this appropriate for this forum? I think it's a fair enough viewpoint to share. Because if we just tore everyone down for having a "Hakuna Matata" attitude about their love of film, then we'd be doing everyone a disservice by tearing down the general morale.

Yes. Giving realistic advice and imparting balanced wisdom is important. But maybe it's also important to hold back harder criticisms from and appreciate the so-called "Hype Men" when we see them: which I think you are one, Cracker Funk. You stand for the purity of loving the art-form of film in lieu of giving everyone the rundown of how cut-throat the business is. We may not entirely agree with what you say or at least with how you say it and present it, but I can honestly tell you that I am just as passionate about film as you are, and I have taken many personal risks in pursuing what I think is best and what I think is doable, because I have faith in myself and my perseverance.

I'm incredibly picky, I'm incredibly critical, I'm incredibly particular about details and clarity of ideas. So I can get pretty in-depth with my responses and criticisms. Essentially, I have a very specific view about how films should be made and/or how director's should approach their work aside from artistic integrity. Beyond all stylistic choices, I think every director should strive for excellence in every film they make, because only they know how their film should look. And if they have an idea for their films clearly in their heads, then they should commit themselves to getting their films as close to that image as possible. Anything less, in my opinion, betrays one's vision as well as oneself. You should be willing to go that extra mile, climb that last mountain, or swim that last stretch of water before you say "that's it, I'm done." Because if the only thing standing between me and my film getting done really is just me, then I don't stop until it's done and exactly the way I want it.

This is how I like to work, and it works for me. And so if what you do works for you, Cracker Funk, then we can't say that it doesn't. If it turns out you screw up and fail, it really isn't our fault. Should we be concerned about filmmakers failing? Yeah, I think so. But should we discourage modes of thinking that lead to failure by saying your just stupid? No. What good does that do?

Honestly, why should we care one way or the other? You do your thing and we'll do ours. If you want a critique on a piece of work you've done, then I'll critique it my way, AudioPostExpert will do it his way, or Sweetie will do it his way. But at the end of the day, you'll either take our advice--good or bad--or you won't. It's your life and your career. So just keep doing you. Cause I'm actually starting to appreciate it. lol

Hey, buddy! I think you and I are coming closer to seeing eye-to-eye. Yes, we should all do what works for us. And yes, we should all feel free to give thoughtful advice to each other on how we think one thing or another can be done better. I'm all for that. Heck, that's basically the entire reason for the existence of this forum. I have no problem with any of that, I cherish it.

What I do have a problem with is people attempting to shut down someone else's ideas by telling them that they're destined to fail. This is especially problematic when there are scant details discussed of how one scenario may or may not work, and nothing but vague generalizations are used to discourage someone else from doing what they want to do.

I'm not accusing you of doing any of that. But other people have. It's been happening for years, and I won't tolerate it any more. That's what this thread is about. I'm putting my foot down.

Technical critique? Yes please! Technical advice? Yes please! Artistic critique? Yes please! Artistic advice? Yes please! Logistical advice? Yes please, but only if specific scenarios are discussed. It's not acceptable to tell someone they're going to fail simply because you generally don't like the way they do things.

And for the record, the rah-rah attitude behind my recent posts is very intentional. The reason behind this will become easily apparent, very soon. Like, within a couple days, the big plan is going to be publicly announced, and I hope you'll be on-board. You seem cool to me, FilmJ, I think you and I just maybe didn't effectively communicate with each other in our earliest interactions.

:cheers:
 
Sweetie will do it his way.

Yes I will.

It's your life and your career. So just keep doing you.

You bet! If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get, what you've always got. [Shitty English but I hope you get the meaning]

I'm putting my foot down.

You go [insert derogatory word here]!... and put down that foot. Crush those plebs beneath you. That'll tell em' who's boss! ;)

nothing but vague generalizations

I'll leave you with this last piece of advice from the visionary George Carlin. "All Generalizations are false!", though you do need to question some of his advice. He did once instruct me "Don't collect wooden nickels."
 
OK, I'll play along but this is starting to get boring. Also, I'm not really replying to you personally CF because there's obviously no point, I'm just responding to what you've said hopefully for the benefit of others.

Antihero was never intended to make money, and that much is well-documented, publicly. My original intent for the film was to somehow show what I'm capable of, as a director, so that I might somehow attract investors to fund my second feature film. From that perspective, Antihero failed.

Is it just me, do you not see how absurd this is? You wanted to show investors how capable you are of loosing money, of never intending to make money?! That's like applying for a job as an airline pilot by showing them how capable you are of crashing a plane! I'm not saying you have to make a profitable film to attract some investment but you do have to demonstrate at least some serious potential to make a profitable film. In practice, you weren't really aiming at investors/investment, you were aiming for a charitable donation. There are effectively some film funding charities but even they have strings attached.

That you managed to finish your film, four-walled it for free, learned a lot, had fun and made some friends is a very commendable achievement which I am NOT denigrating!!!! If you want to make hobbyist films I'm NOT bullying you not to, and I'm NOT advising you against making hobbyist films. On the contrary, I'm entirely supportive of your hobby and of you making hobbyist films!

If you're making hobbyist films to try to get into "Hollywood" though, then I am advising you against it, because that won't get you into "Hollywood". At best it's just the very first step in a long road and it's pointless step if it's one you've already taken! I'm still not "bullying" you, you can keep repeating the same step over and over, ad infinitum, if you want. I'm just saying that running on the spot is not "chasing" anything except maybe the dream of being a better hobbyist filmmaker (which is not your stated dream).

G
 
OK, I'll play along but this is starting to get boring. Also, I'm not really replying to you personally CF because there's obviously no point, I'm just responding to what you've said hopefully for the benefit of others.



Is it just me, do you not see how absurd this is? You wanted to show investors how capable you are of loosing money, of never intending to make money?! That's like applying for a job as an airline pilot by showing them how capable you are of crashing a plane! I'm not saying you have to make a profitable film to attract some investment but you do have to demonstrate at least some serious potential to make a profitable film. In practice, you weren't really aiming at investors/investment, you were aiming for a charitable donation. There are effectively some film funding charities but even they have strings attached.

That you managed to finish your film, four-walled it for free, learned a lot, had fun and made some friends is a very commendable achievement which I am NOT denigrating!!!! If you want to make hobbyist films I'm NOT bullying you not to, and I'm NOT advising you against making hobbyist films. On the contrary, I'm entirely supportive of your hobby and of you making hobbyist films!

If you're making hobbyist films to try to get into "Hollywood" though, then I am advising you against it, because that won't get you into "Hollywood". At best it's just the very first step in a long road and it's pointless step if it's one you've already taken! I'm still not "bullying" you, you can keep repeating the same step over and over, ad infinitum, if you want. I'm just saying that running on the spot is not "chasing" anything except maybe the dream of being a better hobbyist filmmaker (which is not your stated dream).

G

You're getting bored with this? Good. Because that's what I want. Stop fucking with me. In numerous threads, you've been trolling the shit out of me. I've politely asked you to leave me alone. Now that it's on a very public stage, I'm not surprised that you've toned down your rhetoric.

Remind me again -- how many films have you produced?
 
And I didn't four-wall Antihero, not that there's anything wrong with four-walling. It was an actual theatrical release, I don't know why some of y'all are so adverse to understanding that. Whatever. Just stop fucking with me, and we'll be alright.
 
Last edited:
Oh, wait, I just remembered. Some of you have never made a film. That's what sets us apart. Cuz even a beginner filmmaker would know what four-walling is. Even a beginner filmmaker would know that four-walling is when you literally rent a theater and then take in all of the responsibilities and potential profits of ticket sales.

Nope, that's not what happened with Antihero. An actual national theater chain decided that they wanted to make it part of their lineup. I don't know why some of y'all refuse to accept that as reality.

Maybe Antihero isn't the thing we should be talking about? Maybe we should be talking about all of our next projects of passion?

I know you've got one. I'm speaking to the general "you". And if you don't have a project of passion, then shut your face.
 
Last edited:
I've politely asked you to leave me alone. Now that it's on a very public stage, I'm not surprised that you've toned down your rhetoric.

I haven't toned anything down, I'm saying exactly what I've always said. And, you specifically invited me to respond and now that I have, you're throwing a hissy fit?

Stop fucking with me. In numerous threads, you've been trolling the shit out of me.

I tell you what, you stop trolling and fucking with other people's heads and I'll stop telling you the truth, how does that deal sound?

Remind me again -- how many films have you produced?

I've helped make about 70 professionally budgeted films/programs, around 20 of which were theatrical features. How many professionally budgeted films have you made?

An actual national theater chain decided that they wanted to make it part of their lineup.

Ah, it was distributed to an entire cinema chain. My mistake, I thought it was a single cinema which you convinced to four-wall for free. I'm not knocking you four-walling your film for free, that must have taken a lot of time and effort to achieve. But even the achievement of four-walling for free is not distribution! Distribution is defined as the act of sharing it out amongst a number of recipient cinemas. The number of cinemas defines whether we're talking about limited distribution, wide distribution or international distribution but any type of distribution requires considerably more than just a single cinema. Funny, I'd have thought even a beginner filmmaker would know that. In fact, I know people who aren't filmmakers at all and yet still know that!

And if you don't have a project of passion, then shut your fucking face.

No, you shut yours! This isn't YOUR forum, it's a forum for all indie filmmakers, regardless of what type of filmmaking project they're involved in or their reasons for being involved ... Your posts are moving from the irrational to the down right insane. You're sounding like some sort of crazed, radical fascist. Calm down mate, you'll do yourself a mischief!

G
 
Cracker Funk, what you did is exactly what I would like to do eventually. Congrats!

I would also love to find more people in my area that are also making films, but they are kind of off the radar from what I can tell so far. I haven't really gone down the rabbit hole yet, but we'll see what a few more months of digging will turn up.

Also:

"You wanted to show investors how capable you are of loosing money"

It's "losing" money.
 
How many professionally budgeted films have you made?

Zero. That's why the advice I give people is specifically tailored towards those who currently don't have the opportunity to make a professionally budgeted film. I've never tried to stop you from making a professionally budgeted film, have I? I've never told you that the way you're making a professionally budgeted film is wrong, have I?

This isn't YOUR forum, it's a forum for all indie filmmakers, regardless of what type of filmmaking project they're involved in or their reasons for being involved ...

:lol::lol::lol:!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, that is rich. Hahahahahahaha, I can't believe you just said that. My oh my, this just keeps getting better.

In numerous threads, over the span of many years, and very much so in the last few days, you've told me that the type of filmmaking project I'm involved in is wrong and that I'm destined to fail. You keep trying to tell me to stop what I'm doing because you don't approve of it.

And I'm not throwing a hissy-fit here, buddy. Yes, I invited you to say something in this thread. And you've said exactly what I needed you to. Shall I remind you?

This isn't YOUR forum, it's a forum for all indie filmmakers, regardless of what type of filmmaking project they're involved in or their reasons for being involved ...

Those are your words, not mine. And so, from now on, I expect you to not make any attempts to tell me that my type of filmmaking project is wrong, or that my reasons for being involved are wrong. Any time you do, it will be documented in this thread.

EDIT: No I won't. It just occurred to me if I were to do that I'd be breaking the rules of this forum. Plus, I kinda feel like this thing has been sufficently nipped in the bud.

5725d86ac46188bd038b45a1.jpg
 
Last edited:
Back
Top