New to the forum and filmmaking

Hi, i've been doing some filmmaking for a pretty long time but i want to step it up and start making short films and eventually feature lenght.

I just got my second camera but i'm thinking about how i am going to pick up sound, the camera doesn't have any input to add a mic (i was thinking like get a microphone, insert it to the camera and duct tape the mic to a hockey paddle or something). But without a mic input im not sure how to do it, obviously the integrated mic in the camera is not enough?
 
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The integrated mic definitely is not enough.

This may seem like a cop-out post, but you really should've done a little more research before purchasing a camera. Film making is an expensive hobby, and unnecessary expenses carry a heavy burden. Unfortunately, cameras are one of the more expensive pieces of equipment you'll need for shooting films. You don't want to be buying a new camera every year, because you realized that the last camera you bought lacked a feature you wanted. Is there any chance you can return the camera for a refund? If you can't, there still may be hope, but I'll get to that in a second.

Next time you're shopping for ANY equipment, be it a camera, a shotgun mic, or even tripod, DO A LOT OF RESEARCH! You don't want to rebuy equipment every year! In practice, saving up for the more expensive camera will actually save you a ton of money you would otherwise waste, gradually upgrading every few years. The same goes for ANY equipment you get.

I have a film maker friend that continues to make the same mistake, time and time again, and it's costing him A LOT of money. When he was starting out, he bought a dynamic mic for his sound needs. He thought it'd be enough, and told himself he didn't care about "broadcast quality sound". He paid a bit under 100 for the mic. After a month of using it, he realized that he really did not like the results it was producing, so he bought a cheap shotgun mic for 170 or so dollars. Eventually he wanted even more, so he bought a Sennheiser for 500. He gave his old shotgun away, and hasn't touched his dynamic mic since. That's 270 dollars of unnecessary expense he could've avoided if he had just saved up for a few more months.

Anyways, if you don't plan on getting another camera and you are a stickler for sound, you can get a field recorder to go along with a shotgun mic. You can then sync the audio with the video in post production. From what I've seen (I don't have one myself), field recorders are the professional route to go. Unfortunately, a good one might deal a heavy blow to your wallet. From what I hear, the FPS of your video will have an impact on how well it will sync with the audio, so if you want perfect sync, you'll need to get one of the pro recorders. A professional recorder will outlast any microphone or camera you may get. If you think film making is something you will be doing for a long, long time, then maybe look into getting one.

The cheaper solution is getting a regular digital audio recorder, and plugging your mic into it. I would not recommend going this route, because cheap audio recorders have terrible preamps. Terrible preamps mean bad sound, even if you have a great mic. If the only thing you care about is getting AUDIBLE dialogue, then maybe this will satsify you. But once again, if you think you might want something better down the road, just bypass this step and save yourself the unnecessary expense.
 
First, thanks for answering. When it came to research i read up about the camera and saw somewhere that it had input for mic, i didn't double check it though. Obviously a mistake.

I do however have a mic with a very long cable and a laptop, so my idea was hook it up to a laptop, mount the mic on a hockey paddle and record the sound, then edit it in post production.

I plan to do movies as a profession, so a long time.

However for now i simply want the means to be able to create movies that would come across as good quality for the internet, not cinema quality at all.

But i'd like the sound to be right, not nessecarily really sharp. I will focus on having a good script and good ideas, if it looks very indie hopefully it will just add to the charm.
 
You sure do like those hockey paddles! ;)

I 'spose you could record straight to a laptop, but you'd need to be pretty methodical keeping track of all the recorded audio. And cue-times.

You'd also be limited in your choice of mics to use, as no off-the-shelf laptop I can tkink of has XLR jacks.
 
First, thanks for answering. When it came to research i read up about the camera and saw somewhere that it had input for mic, i didn't double check it though. Obviously a mistake.

I do however have a mic with a very long cable and a laptop, so my idea was hook it up to a laptop, mount the mic on a hockey paddle and record the sound, then edit it in post production.

I plan to do movies as a profession, so a long time.

However for now i simply want the means to be able to create movies that would come across as good quality for the internet, not cinema quality at all.

But i'd like the sound to be right, not nessecarily really sharp. I will focus on having a good script and good ideas, if it looks very indie hopefully it will just add to the charm.

You've definitely got the right idea. Story is king, as everyone on this board will tell you. If you have a good script, technical short comings will be a lot more forgivable. However, if we can't HEAR or SEE how great the script is, it's all moot, really.

Can you "get by" using your laptop to record? Yes. Absolutely. But I personally would not be satisfied with the results.

I've done some OKAY recordings using my laptop. Programs like Audacity can provide you with a decent software preamp. The only real concern is that laptops have TERRIBLE integrated soundcards, so you might run into weird sound issues while recording. For example, when I plug my shotgun into my laptop and record, only the first 4 or 5 seconds of the recording are crisp. After the initial start up of the recording, the sound becomes muffled and distorted. I don't know the exact cause of this issue, but I know it has nothing to do with my microphone, and nothing to do with my software (tried 4 different programs). Keep in mind that laptop soundcards were not designed with this use in mind. They're mostly for online gaming/skype type microphones. If you have a USB soundcard or something of the sort, you can bypass all of the problems with the integrated soundcards.

Hope this helps.


You'd also be limited in your choice of mics to use, as no off-the-shelf laptop I can tkink of has XLR jacks.

I've successfully used an XLR to Mini converter to plug my shotgun into a laptop. It's not the ideal way to record, but the lack of XLR is not a huge obstacle. Laptop soundcards are a much bigger issue I think :)
 
You'd also be limited in your choice of mics to use, as no off-the-shelf laptop I can tkink of has XLR jacks.

The only real concern is that laptops have TERRIBLE integrated soundcards

It is true that internal and on board laptop sound cards are not all that great and there are no XLR connections on a laptop, however both of these options can be easily solved by using an external sound card/mixer or what is better know as an "Audio Interface." They can be kind of expensive and can hinder portability, but if you're using a laptop to record audio, chances are you are not worried about portability.

There are a few product options from M-Audio that I have found very useful for recording audio using a laptop. These options all lend themselves well to all kinds of shoots, but are particularly useful for recording live events such as music concerts.

First, there is the M-Audio Fast Track Pro (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackPro.html). It is an "Audio Interface" that has XLR connections, multiple channels, and connects to your computer using USB which by-passes your crappy sound card inputs. The Fast Track Pro specifically has 4 inputs and 4 outputs. The Fast Track Ultra (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra.html) features all the same features of the Fast Track Pro, but has 8 inputs and 8 outputs. And then there is the Fast Track Ultra 8R. The Fast Track Ultra 8R can be used a set-top box or in rack-mounted setup and has 8 dedicated inputs and 8 dedicated outputs whereas the other Fast Track products use some of the ports as either input or output depending on how you set it up to save room on the box and cost in making the physical product. For instance the 4 input/4 output Fast Track Pro has only 6 ports (2 of which can be input or output). The Fast Track Ultra 8R has 8 separate dedicated inputs and 8 separate dedicated outputs that can all be used simultaneously. All of these products have adjustable knobs for everything you can think of and two complete-mix headphone outputs for real-time monitoring.

While these products range from a couple hundred bucks to over five-hundred dollars, they may just be the trick you need to get the audio you want and if any of you ever do live events, especially super loud concerts with multiple channels being run through a PA system where using a boom mic or any conventional mic will lead to distorted audio, the Fast Track Ultra 8R is a dream. It allows you to record the vocals, guitars, bass, and drums all seperate allowing for better audio mastering in post production.

With one of these products the only thing you have to really do is master the audio in post and sync it to your video.
 
Oh yah, my brother uses something similar for recording live music gigs. FirePro, or something? I forget the name.

However, I suspect the if the OP is not looking for alternatives that may run a few hundred bucks - given the consistent talk of using a hockey-stick as a boompole. :P
 
Oh yah, my brother uses something similar for recording live music gigs. FirePro, or something? I forget the name.

However, I suspect the if the OP is not looking for alternatives that may run a few hundred bucks - given the consistent talk of using a hockey-stick as a boompole. :P

No i've ran my economy to the ground, got a camera for 400 bucks, i have a microphone, i have a laptop and i have a damn hockey stick. I'm pretty much completely out of money and need to make do with what i have. I am however looking into maybe exchanging camera with someone to get audio input.
 
What you plan to do has some drawbacks. But we all have faced drawbacks
when it comes to equiment. Overcome the difficulities and make your movie!

Welcome to indietalk!
 
The only other option I can think of is to invest in/borrow a mic and use an adapter to plug it into your laptop's mic/line-in port or invest in/borrow something like the M-Audio MicroTrack II Portable Digital Recorder (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrackII.html). The MicroTrack can be a really useful tool for recording in the field if you do docs or for recording at live events such as festival and expo interviews and it's a lot more portable than an 8-channel audio interface connected to your laptop. This will actually bypass your laptop and allow you to record with this device in your pocket or tape to your tripod or camera mount... or hockey puck!
 
Filmmaking is all about problem solving, at every stage. I've seen great shorts that were done in the method you're describing...handycam photography mated with laptop recorded sound. So don't let your limited equipment deter you, just experiment and find out what will work!

Another angle you might want to consider, though, is collaborating with a cinematographer. This is how I made my first two features...I'd long had what I thought were great scripts and visions for these films but had also run my economy into the ground. So I found people who already HAD great equipment and wanted more work. They got experience working with a director, I learned a metric buttload about digital video, and everyone benefited. With my newly gained knowledge I was able to later purchase a camera to suit my future needs.

You'll see a lot of posts on here urging filmmakers to learn about job delegation, and sometimes the best one to delegate is the photography. At the very least, having two sets of eyes for every setup can almost always be beneficial.

Good luck!
 
I have to agree with Uranium City.

I have been into filmmaking hot and heavy filming my own footage, directing, editing, producing all my own work by myself with a Sony DVD consumer camera and using borrowed time on other people's laptops (all windows-based) using Windows Movie Maker to edit my films.

So you wanna talk about limitations, I am there. I am producing products for paying clients with these resources, which I believe proves, it's not always the price or quality of the equipment, but the price and quality of the talent. If you are talented and passionate about what you do it will show in your work. If you make a film (with whatever resources you have) and offer it at a reasonable price, people will pay for it if they see you are passionate and talented... all you need is good marketing after that.
 
Let me just jump in and point something out.

Robert Rodriguez when shooting El Mariachi shot the entire movie silent on 16mm, then recorded all the dialogue and etc on cassette tape. You all know how that turned out.

Don't let the technical shortcomings get you down, just make up for it in other areas, and keep working hard at it. The worst thing you can do is let a technical shortcoming stop you from actually doing a film.

Just make the story and film itself so awesome, no one will care about the audio!

I'll end here with something that I've come to learn over the past few years -- ANY good movie scene, you can turn the sound off, and still know what's going on just by watching a silent picture. Film language is what you should be speaking.

I'd love to see some of your stuff when it's done, keep us updated.
 
...ANY good movie scene, you can turn the sound off, and still know what's going on just by watching...

Totally Agree. Well Said.

Anton: Can't wait to see the final result. Let us know when the trailer or entire film is up. Post it in the Screen Room section of the forum (be sure to read the posting rules).
 
Totally Agree. Well Said.

Anton: Can't wait to see the final result. Let us know when the trailer or entire film is up. Post it in the Screen Room section of the forum (be sure to read the posting rules).

I'm working on a short film/music video. basically a silent story to music.

Just something i've been doing to get warmed up, ill post the whole video on youtube or something similar when it's done.

Also thanks everybody for the help and support.

_______

I had another question aswell that i didn't find a good forum topic for so ill just slip it in here, i'm planning to get out of where i am currently residing (sweden) to be able to hang around people in a more creative (and warmer) enviorment. I reckon Hollywood is the place for aspiring film makers but i can imagine residing there would be expensive, is anyone here a part of a art collective house/flat or willing to take on a room-mate?
 
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Hollywood is a good place if you want to work on the sets of million dollar movies. (if you're lucky)

You can be creative anywhere you are. Pick up a camcorder, go talk your friends into standing in front of the camera for you. Buy them lunch if you have to. Don't wait to move to start being 'creative'. You're creative already, that's why you're here talking to us.

You're a filmmaker, and we're your peers. ;)
 
Hollywood is a good place if you want to work on the sets of million dollar movies. (if you're lucky)

You can be creative anywhere you are. Pick up a camcorder, go talk your friends into standing in front of the camera for you. Buy them lunch if you have to. Don't wait to move to start being 'creative'. You're creative already, that's why you're here talking to us.

You're a filmmaker, and we're your peers. ;)

I know i can work on it anywhere, and i am constantly. I'd just like to hang around where there is more of a "scene". I'm not waiting for that to start making movies, but it's where i'd prefer to be.
 
You have to make your own environment. That's what I do.

I live in Virginia, and this place isn't exactling overflowing with filmmakers. I found others in my area who were into filmmaking and acting through forums and different venues, and made friends and contacts.

Now I know others who are into filmmaking like myself, and have plenty of actors. An environment, as far as creativity goes, is what you make of it.
 
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