Need help with unusual distribution pre-sell deal

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shirleyb

Unusual distribution pre-sell deal

I was wondering if I could ask some of you about the details of distribution. FilmMovement is very interested in a pre-sell of my film. They want to put up the production money and distribute it unilaterally. BUT here's some of the sketchiness: Filmmovement is the first of its kind, really its an experiment: they do limited theatrical, educational, and home video releases but its really a sort of DVD club that provides new releases of independent/foreign films to people who subscribe to them. Subscribers receive a new release every month (paying about $16/mo).

So the good thing is my film, when completed, would already have an guarranteed audience through their subscribers but the bad thing is anyone who wants to own my film would have to become a subscriber first. I could see some pros and many cons arising from this, what do you guys think of the idea of this kind of distribution? :hmm:

Now Filmmovement is fairly young and the only real clout they have in the indie scene seems to be because it was started by Larry Meistrich, also founder of the now defunct Shooting Gallery (which produced big indies like Shine.) Some films FilmMovement have released: Last Party 2000 (w/Phillip Seymor Hoffman), Raja, Omtown.,,not exactly big splashers films but not too shabby either. But I was thinking "big things" for my project (don't we all?) so I don't know if FilmMovement has the ability to market my film as such (although they undoubtedly claim they can.) Overall the response to my work-in-progress at various nyc screenings has been really warm but this is my first feature film- am I delusional to see Lions Gate, Film Focus or Lot 47 in my near future?

But the real ominous part is I've had two meetings with them already and although they're clear on a lot of other points, they won't disclose the numbers of their subscribers base or what cities/states hold their marketing concentration, they merely claim nationwide (US) distribution. But from asking around, I gather older surburban folks that don't have arthouse theatres in their area would be their likely audience for their DVD club. But I know this film would do well if pushed in urban cities as well. So the big dilemna is: should I just hold out until I finish the film, try my luck at film festivals then shop it to the higgest bidder for distribution OR should I bite the bullet, accept the production money (& share ownership *sigh*) in order to finish a more glossly film and work exclusively w/Filmmovement, which may mean a somewhat lackluster but guaranteed distribution? :huh:

Up until this point I've been working with a micro-small crew and I've been self-financing my DV film guerilla style with a half-of-a-shoe-string budget while actively pursuing more prestigous grant money. This is my first feature film- a music documentary about Haitian folk music ( a cross between Amandla! and Buena Vista Social Club but a lot more experimental).

Sorry for all the questions folks but any advice would be so helpful...

thanks! :)

shirleyb
 
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shirleyb,

First, congratulations on making your film, much less getting someone interested in it! That's wonderful news and I hope we can all end up with your problems!

Here's my two cents: If you were going to make the film no matter what and you have a specific way you want it made (in other words, if creative control is the most important aspect to you), then I would take my chances, finish the film and then see about getting some more interest from your preferred list of distributors. Since you're already getting a warm reception, you can expect to get some additional attention once it's finished. An inexact science, to be sure, but at least you're not moving forward without some hope that it will be seen. Of course, you might want to spread the word to some of your preferred distributors, letting them know that you have someone on the line and building some interest with them before the project is even finished. A good producer's rep might be a sound investment at this point to help guide you here.

If, on the other hand, you need to pay bills and are looking at a mountain of debt to finish the film with your own or borrowed funds, I would like the support that comes with a distribution deal (marketing, publicity, etc), going with a bird in hand might make sense here. The advantage of this option is that you will be working with someone who is knowledgeable about distribution, who has an installed (albeit undefined) user base, and is willing to put money into your project NOW. That means that you will not be living on chicken soup until you finish, won't have creditors calling when you do and can move on to the next project sooner rather than later. Again, a good producer's rep can help here also. They might also be able to help you hold back a particular territory (international, for example) so that you could have your US cake and eat your European cake too.

So few movies make any money for the filmmaker, I might lean toward having production costs covered and a distribution deal set up on my first film (more so if I couldn't muster interest from other parties). Not having any debt and being able to point to a distributed film would certainly help with future projects.

Please keep us posted on what happens. I am keenly interested in hearing what you choose and how it goes.

Best of luck!
 
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thanks cyan,

and yes I am swimming in debt making this film but I also value having complete control (I know- something's gotta give right! :grumpy:

But how do I go about securing a decent (but cheap :yes: ) producer's rep at this point?

shirleyb
 
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Something else you need to put serious thought into is what, realistically, the level of interest will be in your film. That is one of the biggest things a distributor is going to look at, because if they don't see a widespread interest potential in the film, they aren't going to want to risk money promoting it.

Although we would all love for our films to make it big, perhaps just making SOMETHING is best. I wouldn't necessarily jump on board with them straight away, keep trolling the waters for a bit and see if there might be additional avenues to go down. I'm sure there is someone with more experience in this area than me that can help shed some light on it for you, but it may very well be a good option. Good luck!
 
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you need to put serious thought into is what, realistically, the level of interest will be in your film. That is one of the biggest things a distributor is going to look at, because if they don't see a widespread interest potential in the film, they aren't going to want to risk money promoting it.
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That's just the thing Will, I think that my film could do well in diverse, urban cities (especially nyc, boston, miami where there's a major Haitian/Caribbean population) but Filmmovement might push it elsewhere in the states...but heck, I don't know really know that- does anyone else think its strange for a distro co. to avoid revealing their numbers or specific marketing plans with a potential client? I mean, I haven't seen the contract yet but still...is this normal? :hmm:

shirleyb
 
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If they are blatently avoiding it then you might want to steer clear.. maybe my thinking is flawed, but it seems to me, as clearly you believe too, that if they're trying to get MY business they should be eager to show me exactly how they are going to be able to help me. Or at least some kind of rough idea. I dunno what to tell you.
 
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This is such a personal matter, I can’t imagine how MY input would help. But what the heck - this is what messageboards are all about.
They want to put up the production money and distribute it unilaterally.
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This clinches it for me. I make movies for a living. When someone agrees to pay - I go to work. The elusive big deal holds less interest for me. I’d rather make 3-4 movies a year that never get theatrical release than go into debt plying the festival/theatrical distribution circut.

And I have done both.


does anyone else think its strange for a distro co. to avoid revealing their numbers or specific marketing plans with a potential client?
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I don’t think that’s strange at all. You mention they are also putting up production money so they will be more than just your distributor - they will be your producer.

But if it bothers YOU, then you need to tell them before you sign anything. If they won’t disclose the info you need, and it’s a deal breaker, then tell them.

But me? With production money and guaranteed distribution I would knock the potted plant over and leap across the desk in order to sign that contract.
 
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shirleyb said:
does anyone else think its strange for a distro co. to avoid revealing their numbers or specific marketing plans with a potential client?
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I can see where Directorik is coming from on a few points, but I do find this strange.

I don't make my money doing film for a living, but I am in distribution of a different kind. You can't sign on the dotted line if you can't even get a few ballpark figures from potential partners.

Just my opinion.
 
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Zensteve said:
You can't sign on the dotted line if you can't even get a few ballpark figures from potential partners.
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These are some of details they are forthcoming about: they claim to have about 2,115 subscribers. They also promise a (very) limited theatrical release in their few partner arthouse theatres across the US, like Quad Cinema in nyc and Arclight in chicago. Before it opens in a particular city/town, incentives like free tickets to the premiere would be sent out to their subscribers, then the DVD would be released later within the same month to the subscriber's only (which supposedly includes libraries, galleries, netfiix, and some educational institutions along with regular individuals.)

I realize that this dilemna is case specific but I was just wondering how other filmmakers might feel about this kind of deal. All of you have been helpful...I need a lawyer at this point as well. And I do have other projects waiting in cut (sometime in this lifetime). Anyway, your first is usually just promotion for the others, right? :P

thanks again,
shirleyb
 
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Well... if netflix is one of their subscribers that's a good thing, lots of people are eager to get their film picked up by netflix. I'd say go for it.. If it gets you out of debt, and on to the next project that's a good thing. I would try to set up some kind of deal that allows you to sell the dvds to non-subscribers or something though.. I don't know if part of the deal is them retaining all the distrobution rights and whatnot, but it seems odd that they absolutely wouldn't allow selling to outside people, granted that is part of their leverage to increase subscription, but what happens if someone sees the film at one of the arthouse theaters, and then wants to buy the dvd. Not everyone is particularly thrilled about joining some "club" to be able to get movies. If they were Columbia House would have put all the other full price shops out of business years ago.

But that's just my opinion. If it were me, I think I'd go for it. Money is good, starving with no-one watching your film is bad. Sure it's not really that black & white, but sometimes you just have to make it that way.. it makes life easier. :)
 
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No, it really sucks but they won't sell outside their subscribers, that's the incentive to join their club (they're trying to promote this new idea as well).

Well...I think I may have to bite the bullet.
 
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This is such a personal matter, I can’t imagine how MY input would help. But what the heck - this is what messageboards are all about.


Quote:


They want to put up the production money and distribute it unilaterally.


This clinches it for me. I make movies for a living. When someone agrees to pay - I go to work. The elusive big deal holds less interest for me. I’d rather make 3-4 movies a year that never get theatrical release than go into debt plying the festival/theatrical distribution circut.
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I've got to agree with directorik, if they are offering pre-sales and you don't have a better offer on the table, this deal will give you completion and distribution. That's a completed project and money in the bank, that's wages for all the people who have helped you get this far and for yourself.

Sure, you may get a better deal, but that's a big maybe. At the end of the day it's your project, your decision, but I'd sell my first feature in two seconds flat for a profit, even if they were only going to show it to two pigs and a chicken in Idaho and then set fire to it. :yes:
 
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I've never had any distribution expirence, except first hand to family and friends :)

I'd go for it. Look at this as an investment in your future. Is this the only movie you will ever make? Is this the best you think you can do? Why not let someone else pay for it, and make it that much snappier a picture. Having this movie made a little better for you now can help you get money for the next one.

I'd take the money, but I wouldn't sign anything without a lawyer. Will Film Movement put your film into festivals, or allow you to?
 
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Yes, they will definitely push into festivals once its completed- it will add "cache" and help with their marketing since they pride themselves as only buying films that run in the top ten festivals.

I see where you guys are coming from- and I'm leaning towards just going for it. I'll keep you posted on the news :)
 
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Shirley,

Here are a few devil's advocate thoughts which come to mind, and are not meant ill of the distributor in question. The distributor of whom you speak may may be great. Still, some rules of thumb to watch out for generally:


1, They need to provide some kind of discolsure to you on the net/gross numbers in writing specific to your film (this is different from them disclosing proprietary business operations which may keep them ahead of the competition). You can't just "take their word for it" on how much your film makes, unless you just want to get the film out of the way and move on. But do know there is a whole world of unpleasant people out there prepared to spit in your eye as not if you find the reality isn't the same as the promise and call them on it. Taking a gamble on this part of things is really only acceptable in my mind if your expecations are so low that disappointment is a near-impossibility if they tell you the film made nothing and your contract doesn't allow you to see the records to know one way or the other.

2. Ask yourself if the advance also supplies a good salary. Also ask yourself if its enough to buy off any disappointment if they tell you the film only made 25 cents.

3. Do they hold exclusive rights to the film? If so, for how long? They seem to want to hold fast to the product to use that to build their business. There is nothing wrong in that, and there may be some very right things in it. Still, exclusive or non-exclusive is always a biggie as you weigh the checks and balances.

4. They have 2,000 sum-odd subscribers, you say. That's great for an Indie but isn't alot of actual people. if every one pays their 16 bucks for it, you have 30 or 40 sum odd thousand from the film, which may be in perpetuity if they hold the exclusive rights forever, so also ask for how LONG they hold the rights. That's whatever your share of the 30 or 40 thou provided they show you the records, it seems to me. otherwise, it's whatever they decide to offer you and say it is.

5. This also requitres a call to a place like Blockbuster: how does this kind of thing effect the interest of the video chains? It may just be that they have their own perspective on this distribution method we know nothing about. Obviously your film doesn't stink or this distributor wouldn't likely be interested (unless ythe advance is so low there is essentially no gamble for them in it). Then if nothing else you know what the future may hold outside this particular distributor, and that's an important part of the long-term equation.

6. A very important one is whether you wind up hefting the charges for the limited theatrical release. many small distributors charge the film maker back-end on the costs to do the release prints and the advertising and theater rental if the film doesn't break even - according to their records - (net as opposed to gross) and has in the past left many an inspring film maker in debt for years if not decades, because 35mm release prints don't come cheap, unless the theaters in question are running off digital projectors. You should know how much they are planning to spend on the distribution and if those costs can wind up in your lap, or this could be the last film you ever can afford to make. It has happened before. So much so that FYI I even saw an expose on TV about it a few years back, so it's pretty common knowledge, not just my opinion, and unfortunately a problem which isn't too rare.

I think you should have an entertainment lawyer look over the contract even if it costs a little (I assume they have given you one to take home. IF, in the unlikely chance they say they never give out contracts and you have to sign it in their office - meaning no review of attorney - my advice would be to run, not walk, to higher ground.)

Once again, these are all hypotheticals. The distributor in question might be a terrific one and a great opportunity for you all around. I don't know anything about them, and distribution per se isn't my thing. But these are all definately some very important basics to watch out for, and shouldn't be taken lightly unless, of course, you just don't care (except for the part about having to potentially reimburse them for costs on the theatrical release, and its fair to say anyone should be concerned about that) , but it sounds like you do.

Hope this helps.
 
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