archived-videos My First Short! (Finally)

cameronchapman

cameronchapman

UPDATE: New link to new version in #10 below.

Technically it's not my first short, but my true first short was so bad that it will NEVER see the light of day. So this is my first *public* short.

And it's not actually finished, but I want to get some feedback before I do the final cut tomorrow. So for now it's on Vimeo and password protected:

http://vimeo.com/39455545

Password is lipo.

I'm entering this in the YouTube Your Film Festival, the deadline for which is Saturday. I'm happy with the visual edit, but I'm not happy with the audio. I'm planning on cutting a couple lines of VO and I need to re-edit the raw clips because I realized after I rendered it out that it's distorting in places (the original clips aren't doing that, so it's just my own ineptitude at cleaning up and "enhancing" the sound). But I wanted to get it up here for some feedback as-is, so I only have to make one more pass (rendering on my poor old MacBook took nearly 3 hours at 720p).

I feel like it's still missing something with the audio, though...so audio gurus, tell me what I can do to make it better! Time is obviously an issue, but I can devote a few more hours to improving the audio tomorrow...
 
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I liked it and time flowed by while i was watching it. I know because i often find myself looking at how much of the film is left when someone wants me to watch it, which means it's boring me.

So it captivated me and made me pay attention and made me think. Overall i liked it.

I'll offer some comments but they're just personal ones. Your piece is what you have created and if it is exactly what you wanted to create, no one should say it should be different other than giving advice in technical terms.

Mainly, personally, i would've changed the pacing by having different lengths of cuts depending on which part of the narration we were in.
 
Hey, you did your first "real" short! And no, it's not weird to have a "true" first short, vs. the first "real" one that sees the light of day. Congrats, and nice job.

You've got some really great shots in there. And the narrative works just fine for me.

However, you say you're happy with the visual-edit, but I must comment, it's more than twice as long as it needs to be. No question in my mind -- you could easily cut this down to less than two minutes, tell the exact same story, and by keeping it concise, the end result would have a much stronger impact! We don't need dead-air. Keep it forever moving forward; keep the audience constantly-engaged.

Good luck in the contest. :)
 
CF made me think about this...

FWIW:

I was engaged. And after thinking more about it, i think it was because i did not know where the story was going. Other shorts may have a tighter edit and quicker cuts but usually one can predict where they are going and get bored.

I think there is nothing wrong with taking your time to embed a certain feeling in the audience. Efficiency is not always the best solution for your movie. (Polanski, Francis Ford?)

Im playing the devils advocate a bit here with CF (you know i love you, man!) but im not doing it just for the sake of it. I did like the short and truly do think that reducing it, to say 2 mins, would not leave the audience with the same feeling.
 
Hi, Cameron!

Are you suuuuuure we haven't seen your first video?
This seems awfully familiar, and not in any cliché way, but more of a déjà vu sort of way.
IDK.

Having heard many of these kinds of audio poetry stories on NPR I'm fine with the pacing and content.
The greenish tint to the images doesn't seem to have any bearing on the story, but... eh... it's fine.

IMHO, (real humble. like... maybe I should shaddap humble) it sounds like there's a 100% VO audio drop off between VOs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a distracting tinny echo going on there for the actual VOs, but if that's "where" you have to record audio (and I'm guessing it's more location than equipment) then that's "where" you got.

But between the words in each VO there's a room tone that seems to be missing between VO clips that the soundtracks aren't covering up/mitigating/ameliorating.

But my hearing is cr@p and I might be guessing at something just because you pointed in that direction.

???

2¢
Maybe 1¢.


Ray

(It's considerably more classy than my first official short premiered at IT! lhyxeCn3JYw
For Nate North's Low Budget Challenge I recorded the audio in a somewhat remote forest location as far away from street traffic while standing at the trunk of my car reading the script. Problem becomes insect noises in the summertime. WBPYz5XYmto. I had to read the lines about five times to get at least one take w/o the cicada boys pining away for their girls. I then stitched individual lines together from all five takes to build the final. @ 5:33 I can still hear the [expletive] cicadas cycling up.
For Nick's Noggin Project Secret Santa gift I recorded the script in a walk in closet. Dtc2kbv3EVI )
 
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I thought it was not bad for a first short, and yes i get what you mean when you say first "true"short. We've all made those crappy home movies for no film purpose at all, that we would be embarrassed to call our short film. As for this film, I liked the visuals and the music, but I'm gonna be completely honest with you and tell you what I didn't like. First, the part of the narrative where you were naming the different historical figures who committed suicide, didn't work for me. It sounded too technical and more of something you would hear in a documentary, so it kinda took away from the artistic feel. Second, the end was a letdown. I was expecting something to tie together everything you were saying or the meaning behind the objects, but instead the ending offered no resolution at all. Especially in artistic films like these, you need to make the end very clear to the audience. Sometimes these films offer ends that are supposed to confuse the audience or be up to interpretation, but in this case, there was nothing. But for your first film, It was pretty good.
 
A couple of things stand out to me. What you may be wanting most is trying to figure out how to make your VO stand out more by sounding crisper and not so echo-ish. I don't know how to fix that for you, and I don't believe it's that much of a problem unless the clip is played in a big room with echo problems itself.

The biggest problem I hear, and the reason rayw feels there should be room tone, is the fact you have two sounds come through from the actual film portion: the tape being removed and the tea kettle whistling. Both sounds are jarring to the listener, or at least this listener, and your film would possibly sound better by removing those sound bytes or by adding a ton more room sounds and silent room tone.
 
Congratulations on your short! It looks great, the first shot of snow is very inspiring :)

All round, however, I found it problematic. The radio poetry aspect is quite nice, although the delivery was more in line with a public service announcement, but I wasn't sure about the production. It really felt to me like you were making that film specifically because it was easy to do on your own, than because it was a particularly burning story. The lack of camera movement, the lack of shot selection- that's all fine but it just didn't seem to move along.

I know how hard it is to make a film on your own and, trust me, 99% of them suck and yours doesn't anywhere near suck. So that's a good thing but I reckon it's time to take the plunge ;)
 
Thanks for all the feedback! I'll make some revisions and re-post later today (probably in SD so I can render a bit quicker...).

And Ray - I posted an early version of the screenplay for this on here last fall, so that's probably why it feels familiar. :)
 
Okay, here's the new version: http://vimeo.com/39487123. Password is still lipo. Rendered in SD due to time constraints (YouTube SD preset takes 55 minutes, 720p YouTube HD preset takes 2 hours and 45 minutes). Final version will be HD, though.

I've redone the VO track completely, eliminated some lines, changed around the order of things so it flows a lot better, etc. I've still got to adjust the levels a little bit, the VO is too quiet compared to the music in a couple spots, but other than that I'm a lot happier with it.

I also redid the color grading so it's less green.
 
Color grading adjust looks much better, IMO.

VO audio quality is also much better.
Whatever it was that you changed about your recording environment keep using it.
That said... I can tell your brain is zipping around a hundred miles an hour. :)
This is a sad and pensive story.
Now that you have the tech licked you gotta put on your actor hat and get into character.

Watch some depressing, sad, and tragic youtube videos.
Pick a fight with a family member.
Take your recorder on a field trip to your local cemetery and record the script there.
Quit being so d@mn perky and energetic.
It sound's like you're ready to rewire the Star Trek Enterprise.
dea2_enterprise_pizza_cutter_alt.jpg


Also, consider editing out that camera jiggle between 1:19 - 1:21.

EDIT: The soundtrack to VO dialog ratio is too high. Knock that soundtrack down, it's out-competing the more important dialog.
 
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Dang, that 2nd cut went waaaay too far the other direction now. :no:

Obviously just my opinion, but there were only two things that needed addressing in the original cut:

1) The Green. Too much.

2) A small bit of timing work on a few pieces of dialogue.

The green looks far better now in your new cut, but what on earth happened to the rest of your film?! :huh:

It's a great flick you've assembled, in that first cut. The story is metered out fairly well, with a few rushed rapid bursts that could have used a bit more even spacing... but that's really about it. The information is being delivered just fine. The calendar shot makes us think, as we count our four days backwards to what should have been a joyous family occasion. As each piece is retrieved from the box and handled, we learn a little more about our narrator, and the way in which grief is being handled.

At about 2:05 is one of the "rushed" audio. Two sentences placed too close together. A quick bump of a second down the timeline would have rectified this.

The awkwardness (and accompanying embarrased silenced) of the little buddha is great.

The great thing about this film is the almost-POV aspect to it... but it's decidedly off-center, which in itself is saying that no matter how hard you try to empathise or understand, you'll never truly be standing where I am.

Lighten the green, tweak a wee bit of dialogue timing, and tighten up the actual audio (tape noises, etc) and you'd be golden. Actually, the font for the titles was pretty crap too, so add that to the list. But that's it! You have a great little film ready to go.

As for your 2nd cut... dubbleyou tee eff, eh? What did you do?! It's been butchered. :mope:
 
I have to agree somewhat with Zen, although I wouldn't go so far as saying the story now feels butchered. At the same time, I also want to say, tell the story you prefer to tell.

I was wondering why you kept the sound of the tape being peeled but removed the tea whistling?

At first, I thought you should sound sadder, but now after watching/listening a few times you almost sound like you have a reluctant acceptance tone of voice instead of either the typical sad or angry tone.
 
After watching the first and second cuts repeatedly, I still like the second one better. To me, it's simpler and conveys what I want to convey in a clearer fashion. I did some additional cleanup on the audio and tweaked it a little after the version posted here, but I'm calling it "done".

TheLoganDaniels said:
I was wondering why you kept the sound of the tape being peeled but removed the tea whistling?
Click to expand...

To me, the tea kettle whistling was jarring. And despite adjusting it 18 different ways to try to make it flow better, I just couldn't get it. So I cut it. Maybe, if I'd had a lot more time to mess with it, I would have figured out how to make it work. But I was working to a deadline, so I had to decide where my time was best spent.

TheLoganDaniels said:
At first, I thought you should sound sadder, but now after watching/listening a few times you almost sound like you have a reluctant acceptance tone of voice instead of either the typical sad or angry tone.
Click to expand...

Awesome. That's basically what I was going for. I tried doing it sadder but my voice just doesn't work for that. It sounds melodramatic and just plain bad.

This has been a fantastic learning experience for me. And for my next project, I plan to actually work with other people. :weird:
 
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