Music matters

[Egidio]

Hey guys!

How's your relationship with music in your screenplays? Something is bugging me since a long time, I'm gonna cut to the chase, this is the beginning of my screenplay:

FADE IN:

INT. HIGH SCHOOL - DAY

The sound of a school bell.

"Shining Star" by Earth, Wind & Fire follow us through the entire opening scene, with credits over.

Now, I know we're not suppose to "decide" certain things, and I probably should put "FUNKY MUSIC", but in my vision this is so perfect for the situation, I can't just let it go. What do you think about this? In the scenario where my screenplay is getting read, or produced, would something like this bug the director/producer? Most of all, whare are the chances that they're gonna put the song I've picked? (speaking of getting the rights to use the song).

 

[jasmerrin]

I tend to not include anything about the music at all - even something like "fade in funky music" - unless it's related to the story or pivotal in some other way.

For example - in my new movie Sleepwalkers (shameless plug: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jasmerrin/sleepwalkers-feature-film) I have one of the characters mention that she loves the band Joy Division. Later she tries to learn how to play it on the guitar, and even later, during the big climax, I put "Love Will Tear Us Apart by Joy Division begins to play". Music is generally not the choice of the screenwriter, and - like parentheticals or editing directions - are usually best left out of the script unless it's incredibly important somehow.

If the music is diagetic (the characters on screen can hear it) that's a different story. If someone plays a song on an instrument, sings a few lines, or plays it on the radio, I think you can definitely specify what's playing.

 

[moonshieldmedia]

I put several music cues in my screenplay. Funny thin is I don't think a single one of them ended up going in the film. Not because of legal issues but just because it becomes a completely different movie when you're done with it.

 

[Birdman]

I have a character whose DNA alteration has her becoming sexually aroused when she hears the song, "Extraterrestrial" by Katy Perry. True, it may never end up used in the movie, but I'm leaving the song in my script because:

(1) It's the song I chose for this particular scene. This is MY vision. This is MY script and I'm writing it exactly the way I see it in my mind. To do it any other way is watering down my original concept into bland pages of meaningless words.

(2) It works exactly the way I want it to. Other songs may work just as well, but I KNOW this one works.

...and here's the big one:

(3) If the script's plot is good enough to actually get purchased and made into a movie, then whoever is buying it can change the song to something else if they want to (or change it due to inability to purchase copyright permission). If someone trashes it just because of a song I happen to shoose and the script has an excellent plot ...then I'll wait for someone else to review it who has a broader sense of insight. If it's a good, solid movie script ....then the little shit like "song selections" can get worked out later.

-Birdman

P.S. I seriously doubt someone would toss "Shawshank Redemption" into the trash just because the script said to use "It's Been A Long, Long Time" instead of "Le Nozze Di Figaro".

 

[AudioPostExpert]

Now, I know we're not suppose to "decide" certain things, and I probably should put "FUNKY MUSIC", but in my vision this is so perfect for the situation, I can't just let it go.

The important part of this statement is; "in my vision". If you are producing this script yourself, then you can decide and define whatever you want. But if you are aiming to sell it to someone else to produce then the vision of the Producer and Director is what will define what will go into the scene, not yours! The Producer and Director will not be trying to faithfully follow every detail of your script, they will be trying to make a good, engaging and commercially viable film of which your script is in effect only one of the guiding factors.

Your vision/opinion will probably be of little interest and of even less importance to the Producer and Director, unless of course you are the one funding the film and employing the Producer and Director.

G

 

[Birdman]

Your vision/opinion will probably be of little interest and of even less importance to the Producer and Director, unless of course you are the one funding the film and employing the Producer and Director.

...Then why even try writing a movie script at all? Why bother? If our vision/opinion is of little or no importance (and even less to the others involved), then why did the producer buy it in the first place? Why would they like the script enough to buy it if the "vision" was of no importance?

============================

Auto Theft Movie:

let's say I have a savvy car thief character selecting a car to rip off. He looks at several late model cars, contemplates, and then eyeballs a vintage 1970 Barracuda. The next scene I have the thief in the driver's seat slowly putting on a pair of dark sunglasses, firing up a cigarette and burning rubber away from the scene ...with Heart's epic song, "Barracuda" playing in the background.

...Is this vision totally meaningless to a director?

Does the director instead have the thief steal a 2002 Ford focus and putter away from the used car lot to the tune of Elvis Presley's, "In the Ghetto"?

...This obviously makes for a completely different movie (and vision)!

============================


Maybe I should just type in 120 pages of random, meaningless words in a proper screenplay format and a director can simply change everything to his own words later in a Page-1 re-write?


-Birdman

P.S. I have never found more self-defeating philosophies than the ones found within the Screenplay writing community.

 

[directorik]

Now, I know we're not suppose to "decide" certain things, and I probably should put "FUNKY MUSIC", but in my vision this is so perfect for the situation, I can't just let it go. What do you think about this? In the scenario where my screenplay is getting read, or produced, would something like this bug the director/producer?

Let's change the words a little;

No, it will not "bug" the director/producer. But the song may not
be available at any price. The director/producer may not like the
song. The director/producer may not know the song.

Here's a scenario to at least consider: Your script is optioned and
you're sitting in a meeting with the director and producer. The
producer asks, "You say funky music here. What song do you think
would work here?" Now you're in a great place - you're on the team,
the rest of the team is open to your ideas.

Let me ask you; if "Shining Star" was for some reason not available
(let's say that just as your script is optioned a hugely popular film is
in theaters that uses that song and the producer/director do not want
to "copy" that film even thought your script was written first), can you
envision any other song? Maybe not your first choice but your second
or third? Is there absolutely no other song that could be used?

 

[Egidio]

Let's change the words a little;


Let me ask you; if "Shining Star" was for some reason not available
(let's say that just as your script is optioned a hugely popular film is
in theaters that uses that song and the producer/director do not want
to "copy" that film even thought your script was written first), can you
envision any other song? Maybe not your first choice but your second
or third? Is there absolutely no other song that could be used?

Actually no, the other choise would be an original funky jingle as original score,
like "superbad."

 

[directorik]

Actually no, the other choise would be an original funky jingle as original score,
like "superbad."

Okay. Then you must include it in the screenplay. And when a
producer wants to option (or purchase) it you must insist in
writing that that song be used or that an original song be written.

Like other advice you have already read, I think it's better to
not include specific songs. But in your case no other song will
work so your scene depends on it. so you must keep it in the
screenplay. Do so understanding how the business works.

 

[Egidio]

thank you guys, I hope this thread will also help others with the same questions.

 

[Birdman]

thank you guys, I hope this thread will also help others with the same questions.

Two examples of "using a song" in a Screenplay:

(1) Bad use of a song:

You have a Screenplay titled "The Ice Cream Man". It's a story about a homicidal rapist who captures and tortures women while he listens to Vah Halen's "Ice Cream Man". Detectives flush him out by playing VH's "Ice Cream Man" at specific social gatherings exposing the criminal. He ends up in the Psych ward in a straight jacket and headphones with "Ice Cream Man" playing non stop 24/7.

...If Van Halen isn't big on their world famous rock song being used as a serial rapist's torturous theme song, then the entire screenplay is dead in the water. True, a producer could keep searching for an artist willing to have their song and title used in the script, but that would translate into too much effort on the buyer's part.

(2) Good use of a song:

You have a screenplay dealing with a "life after death" theme. You have a handsome male character getting cozy with his beautiful artistic woman as she crafts clay pottery. The song, "Unchained Melody" (by the Righteous Brothers) plays on a nearby jukebox as the romantic steam rises.

...If The Righteous Brothers weren't up on the idea of their song being used or they asked for too much financial compensation, then there would be a multitude of other songs that could pop up on that juke box. However, as we all know, the song that was used was a rather "wise" selection. Wouldn't you agree? Also, any producer who would nix the entire script just because it listed "Unchained Melody" as the song of choice would be making really poor decision.


BTW: Let's say you were working on a script for your new movie titled "Ghost" and you were asking if people here thought it would be okay to spec out "Unchained Melody" for a specific romance scene ....what response do you think you'd get?

-Birdman

 

[Birdman]

I copied this from the script for the movie "Ghost":

SAM'S FINGER

as it presses two buttons on his jukebox. We watch as the
mechanical arm selects a record and slowly, sensuously, lowers
it to the turntable. The arm hovers over the record and then
descends. It begins to play. The song is "Unchained Melody"
by the Righteous Brothers.

-Birdman

 

[Egidio]

I copied this from the script for the movie "Ghost":

SAM'S FINGER

as it presses two buttons on his jukebox. We watch as the
mechanical arm selects a record and slowly, sensuously, lowers
it to the turntable. The arm hovers over the record and then
descends. It begins to play. The song is "Unchained Melody"
by the Righteous Brothers.

-Birdman

you sir, are the best =D

 

[Zensteve]

I copied this from the script for the movie "Ghost":

SAM'S FINGER

as it presses two buttons on his jukebox. We watch as the
mechanical arm selects a record and slowly, sensuously, lowers
it to the turntable. The arm hovers over the record and then
descends. It begins to play. The song is "Unchained Melody"
by the Righteous Brothers.

-Birdman

You know that's a shooting draft, right?

 

[Birdman]

You know that's a shooting draft, right?

I couldn't find anything else. Find the original that says otherwise and we'll talk.

-Birdman

 

[Sweetie]

I can't just let it go. What do you think about this? In the scenario where my screenplay is getting read, or produced, would something like this bug the director/producer?

Unless you're really wrong about your choice, the director doesn't usually care. They're either the kind that pays attention to your wishes or doesn't care.

As a producer, I don't really care too much, though it can be a red flag for me. If the writer comes off as a person who puts in details and fights tooth and nail to keep those elements in, the script becomes less attractive. If you don't mind changes and you're easy enough to work with, then it's just down there as a suggestion in my book and the suggestion is appreciated.

As others have mentioned, there is a difference between a script and a shooting script. As more and more things get locked in, more and more elements can get added to the shooting script, including camera direction, more detailed location descriptions, music, transition notes, alterations from actors etc.

 

[Birdman]

Here's a good link for obtaining copyright permissions: (Linky)

Also, here's a segment of "E.T." where "Quiet Man" is referenced:

(Linky)


INTERCUT: LIVINGROOM

E.T. studies the electronic circuitry of the language game. Suddenly John
Wayne comes on the screen. E.T. is fascinated with his image. It's a scene
from the movie "QUIET MAN." Maureen O'Sullivan huddles in a corner of the
room.

INTERCUT: SCHOOL

A pile of frogs gather at the feet of a terrified little girl with blonde
braids. Elliott, drunk, staggers by her.


-Birdman

P.S. I'll keep trying to show that the writer DOES have some say regarding the content of the script ...and then wait to see all of the Script writer follow-ups endlessly looking for ways to show that we are simply pond scum and that our opinions don't matter. ...Gotta love Screenplay writers! We are our own worst enemies!

 

[FantasySciFi]

...Then why even try writing a movie script at all? Why bother? If our vision/opinion is of little or no importance (and even less to the others involved), then why did the producer buy it in the first place? Why would they like the script enough to buy it if the "vision" was of no importance?

Get over yourself. The job of the scriptwriter is STORY, not it's REALIZATION. That's where the producer and director and other creative talents come in. Unless you're shelling out for licensing, everything you write is to convey a mood for the story. If you're WRITER AND DIRECTOR your opinion/vision truly matter. That's just the reality. A big studio has a bank of writers to take your spec script and craft it the way they want.

Auto Theft Movie:
let's say I have a savvy car thief character selecting a car to rip off. He looks at several late model cars, contemplates, and then eyeballs a vintage 1970 Barracuda. The next scene I have the thief in the driver's seat slowly putting on a pair of dark sunglasses, firing up a cigarette and burning rubber away from the scene ...with Heart's epic song, "Barracuda" playing in the background.

...Is this vision totally meaningless to a director? ...This obviously makes for a completely different movie (and vision)!

It conveys a feel of the story to the director. But it's his/her job to make the script into a movie. Once your script is in the producer/director's hands, it's THEIR VISION that counts. It can be whatever car or song THEY CHOOSE if they even include the scene as written. Yep. That's why many directors produce their own written works. If you're tied to your script as written, you need to produce and/or direct it yourself.

Maybe I should just type in 120 pages of random, meaningless words in a proper screenplay format and a director can simply change everything to his own words later in a Page-1 re-write?
-Birdman

P.S. I have never found more self-defeating philosophies than the ones found within the Screenplay writing community.

Nope, they can find plenty of quality scripts to choose from which don't require expensive licensing. You're goal should be to focus on story. Adding too much "direction from within" is a sure way to turn off many producer/directors.

There is a difference between Writing to Sell and Writing to Shoot. You can be as pie in the sky as you want if you're making this yourself. Be prepared to contend with licensing. If you're trying to sell a script, being aware of obstacles and the purpose of the script as a framework is more practical.

As Directorik said, if you really feel a particular song or movie clip is RELEVANT TO THE STORY, feel free to include it. It may or may not be included. As such, be aware why you've included it. So

INT.  HAUNTED HOUSE - NIGHT
Dave walks through the hallway looking for Tina.  In the
distance is some old organ music, like Bach's Toccata and
Fugue, which reverberate throughout. [COLOR="Blue"](ambience)[/COLOR]

   -- OR --

INT.  DANCE HALL - NIGHT
Marshall sits at the bar sipping on a highball when he
spots Jeri, drunk and bouncing surrounded by testosterone
drenched cowboys to a twangy country "Achy Breaky Heart"
like number. 

Marshall looks into the glass, pushes it aside, stands and
charges like bull shoving through the clustered pulsating bodies. 
[COLOR="blue"](emotional/physical train wreck ready to happen)[/COLOR]

As a scriptwriter I can present the visual and auditory impression to convey the sense of the scene without dictating what should be included. They may use the song or something else. If a writer wants to really get descriptive and be in control, s/he should write the novel. Let someone else write the script based on their book. The script is a blueprint. The spec script writer IS the architect NOT the construction team or interior designer. As a scriptwriter, don't be too attached. Option/sell the script and move on. If you want more than that, you need to produce or direct it yourself. Honestly, once you sign over rights in exchange for the script to be made into a movie, your opinion is squat unless your Joss Whedon or A-list Hollywood screenwriter. And even then, your opinion is more of a suggestion that gets run through the legal department.

Screenwriters have to have thick skins, undaunted determination, and reality focus of their place in the filmmaking food chain. It's not a pessimistic but practical philosophy. My purpose is to sell/option scripts and make movies and series. That means being a team player--whether as writer, director, cast or crew. That means it's important to value the creative vision and experience of others when I hand off my work. While as Directorik said, you can have it written into your contract, you have to be pretty influential or an agent to pull that off with a studio. REALITY CHECK: Most new writers and their scripts just aren't that important. One needs to balance ego with seeing one's work made into a movie.

 

[Birdman]

Get over yourself. The job of the scriptwriter is STORY, not it's REALIZATION. That's where the producer and director and other creative talents come in. Unless you're shelling out for licensing, everything you write is to convey a mood for the story. If you're WRITER AND DIRECTOR your opinion/vision truly matter. That's just the reality. A big studio has a bank of writers to take your spec script and craft it the way they want.

...Ohh, no doubt! This self-defeating philosophy is why so many of you "Screenplay Writers" struggle so hard to get a script sold. You have no faith in yourself, your script or your own frickin' VISION! The basis, cornerstone and foundation of your script before you ever type "FADE IN" is based on one philosophy: "Whatever I write doesn't really matter".

[B]It conveys a feel of the story to the director. [/B] But it's his/her job to make the script into a movie. Once your script is in the producer/director's hands, it's THEIR VISION that counts. It can be whatever car or song THEY CHOOSE if they even include the scene as written. Yep. That's why many directors produce their own written works. If you're tied to your script as written, you need to produce and/or direct it yourself.


...While as Directorik said, you can have it written into your contract, you have to be pretty influential or an agent to pull that off with a studio. REALITY CHECK: Most new writers and their scripts just aren't that important. One needs to balance ego with seeing one's work made into a movie..

"The job of the scriptwriter is STORY"

"It conveys a feel of the story to the director"

...I especially enjoy your synopsis of the overall value of a scriptwriter in your last paragraph:

"Most new writers and their scripts just aren't that important"

I'm enjoying watching the role of the scriptwriter descend into nothingness with each paragraph that you write. In your first paragraph the Scriptwriter is responsible for "STORY". In the following paragraph he is reduced to just the "Feel" of a story. In your last paragraph the Scriptwriter ends up a meaningless, worthless grunt with no vision.


Look, I would be the first to agree with ALL of you that once you sign over the rights to your script they can do whatever they want with your script (unless it's written into the contract - which many of you mistakenly think is "far fetched"). Where you all error is thinking that whatever VISION you had is completely lost after a sale. I should remind you that it was (((YOUR STINKING VISION))) that got your script sold in the first place!

If you are of the mindset that a goon squad of Hollywood script writers will swoop in and totally rewrite your script into another movie I would say you will probably never write a successful script. You have already doomed yourself from the start.

...What makes their talent and vision so much better than yours?

...Are they able to describe a scene better than you?

...Is their "dialogue expertise" so much better than yours?

...Are they going to have a much better plot than you could ever come up with ...just because they're from Hollywood?

The following truth is more based in reality than this "Self defeating" truth you all seem to want to push on these forums:

(1) If you write an excellent script (with excellent dialogue, scenes, format, substance and overall impact) to the point that a studio wants to purchase it and make it into a movie ...then YOUR VISION DOES MATTER! They would have never bought it in the first place had your vision NOT mattered!

(2) Yes, many parts of your script will get re-written based on budget, effects capabilities, time limitations and issues the screenplay writer didn't anticipate. ...But they WILL ADHERE to your original idea as much as they possibly can. It does not benefit a Hollywood producer to redo something that already works. "Reinventing the wheel" applies to Hollywood as with just as much as to any other industry in America. If you have something that works ...don't waste time and money making it into something else!

Here's the one that hurts:

(3) If your #1 goal is to simply "sell a script" ...then you'll probably end up agreeing with the "Self Defeating" scriptwriter's philosophy posted in these threads. The reason is because you have already reduced yourself to nothing more than a literary whore. You don't believe in yourself nor in what you write. You are 100% happy with being a meaningless pawn in the gigantic Hollywood machine and the only thing important to you is getting a fast paycheck. This type of thinking can ONLY translate into a mediocre Script from the very start!



You posted at the very beginning of your follow-up post:

"Get over yourself"

...I respectfully counter that with the following:

"You don't even know who you are"



Until you see yourself as a key element in the creation of a major motion picture you will never amount to anything. ...and that IS A FACT!

-Birdman

P.S. Many of you supposed "Scriptwriters" would have a very Merry Christmas today if you opened a present that made you even more restricted and worthless to the movie industry than you were the day before.

 

[Zensteve]

...Ohh, no doubt! This self-defeating philosophy is why so many of you "Screenplay Writers" struggle so hard to get a script sold. You have no faith in yourself, your script or your own frickin' VISION! The basis, cornerstone and foundation of your script before you ever type "FADE IN" is based on one philosophy: "Whatever I write doesn't really matter".





"The job of the scriptwriter is STORY"

"It conveys a feel of the story to the director"

...I especially enjoy your synopsis of the overall value of a scriptwriter in your last paragraph:

"Most new writers and their scripts just aren't that important"

I'm enjoying watching the role of the scriptwriter descend into nothingness with each paragraph that you write. In your first paragraph the Scriptwriter is responsible for "STORY". In the following paragraph he is reduced to just the "Feel" of a story. In your last paragraph the Scriptwriter ends up a meaningless, worthless grunt with no vision.


Look, I would be the first to agree with ALL of you that once you sign over the rights to your script they can do whatever they want with your script (unless it's written into the contract - which many of you mistakenly think is "far fetched"). Where you all error is thinking that whatever VISION you had is completely lost after a sale. I should remind you that it was (((YOUR STINKING VISION))) that got your script sold in the first place!

If you are of the mindset that a goon squad of Hollywood script writers will swoop in and totally rewrite your script into another movie I would say you will probably never write a successful script. You have already doomed yourself from the start.

...What makes their talent and vision so much better than yours?

...Are they able to describe a scene better than you?

...Is their "dialogue expertise" so much better than yours?

...Are they going to have a much better plot than you could ever come up with ...just because they're from Hollywood?

The following truth is more based in reality than this "Self defeating" truth you all seem to want to push on these forums:

(1) If you write an excellent script (with excellent dialogue, scenes, format, substance and overall impact) to the point that a studio wants to purchase it and make it into a movie ...then YOUR VISION DOES MATTER! They would have never bought it in the first place had your vision NOT mattered!

(2) Yes, many parts of your script will get re-written based on budget, effects capabilities, time limitations and issues the screenplay writer didn't anticipate. ...But they WILL ADHERE to your original idea as much as they possibly can. It does not benefit a Hollywood producer to redo something that already works. "Reinventing the wheel" applies to Hollywood as with just as much as to any other industry in America. If you have something that works ...don't waste time and money making it into something else!

Here's the one that hurts:

(3) If your #1 goal is to simply "sell a script" ...then you'll probably end up agreeing with the "Self Defeating" scriptwriter's philosophy posted in these threads. The reason is because you have already reduced yourself to nothing more than a literary whore. You don't believe in yourself nor in what you write. You are 100% happy with being a meaningless pawn in the gigantic Hollywood machine and the only thing important to you is getting a fast paycheck. This type of thinking can ONLY translate into a mediocre Script from the very start!



You posted at the very beginning of your follow-up post:

"Get over yourself"

...I respectfully counter that with the following:

"You don't even know who you are"



Until you see yourself as a key element in the creation of a major motion picture you will never amount to anything. ...and that IS A FACT!

-Birdman

P.S. Many of you supposed "Scriptwriters" would have a very Merry Christmas today if you opened a present that made you even more restricted and worthless to the movie industry than you were the day before.

If you feel so strongly about this, then that's what you should be doing.