More Craig's List slave labor
- Thread starter Blade_Jones
- Start date
Yeah..... that might be the worst thing ever haha.
Holy crap!
Full time editing for three months for no pay... I feel guilty asking for one or two days free from a PA.
Full time editing for three months for no pay... I feel guilty asking for one or two days free from a PA.
Re.
Ho-leee shhh...
People are just absolutely crazy.
As an ongoing thought I find myself frequently revisiting lately, I find it frankly bizarre what people will and are not willing to spend money on in the pursuit of filmmaking.
Sure, they'll spend money on cameras, lenses, lights and whatnot hardware from a retailer, physical or online.
They'll spend money on gas for transportation to and from locations.
They'll spend money on permits and festival fees.
However, for labor, either in front of or behind the camera, there's just an ever present systemic perception that it's all kind of... discretionary, even when that labor involves the usage of the volunteer's personal assets/materials in the above case.
Now, no one in their right mind would call Adobe software and ask for a free copy of their editing software to make their film.
Likewise, no one's going to call Canon, Sony, Hewlet-Packard/Apple, Tascam, B&H Photo, etc. for hundreds or thousands worth of products to make their film for "film credit".
Yet these director/producer/dreamers think nothing of asking for comparable value in labor with only "film credit" as compensation.
To carry the process full forward, would they expect zero compensation from a distributor for their final product?
"We'll give you credit for directing/producing it. Only offer."
It's inexcusably weird.
Ho-leee shhh...
People are just absolutely crazy.
As an ongoing thought I find myself frequently revisiting lately, I find it frankly bizarre what people will and are not willing to spend money on in the pursuit of filmmaking.
Sure, they'll spend money on cameras, lenses, lights and whatnot hardware from a retailer, physical or online.
They'll spend money on gas for transportation to and from locations.
They'll spend money on permits and festival fees.
However, for labor, either in front of or behind the camera, there's just an ever present systemic perception that it's all kind of... discretionary, even when that labor involves the usage of the volunteer's personal assets/materials in the above case.
Now, no one in their right mind would call Adobe software and ask for a free copy of their editing software to make their film.
Likewise, no one's going to call Canon, Sony, Hewlet-Packard/Apple, Tascam, B&H Photo, etc. for hundreds or thousands worth of products to make their film for "film credit".
Yet these director/producer/dreamers think nothing of asking for comparable value in labor with only "film credit" as compensation.
To carry the process full forward, would they expect zero compensation from a distributor for their final product?
"We'll give you credit for directing/producing it. Only offer."
It's inexcusably weird.
We are indie filmmakers you have to seek out those whose careers are at the same level as yours. One prospective cameraman wanted to charge me a seemingly Speilburg rate and told me a feature takes 28 days firm. Well, those numbers with his day rate work out quite nicely for him. But he's already made the film inpossible for me to make by taking all the money away from canteen, sound and other areas. I did see the conflict in his dictating the terms of the film shoot. Well, my feature took 14 days so we were able to fairly distribute funds to all areas. If he was Speilburg material, then he was simply too much cameraman for us, and we got done what we wanted for less than half his fees with me having to work a little harder also.
And that's what I tell prospective wedding video clients. If they want to only spend $500, then I tell them we bring up to $10,000 worth of equipment for each event and if they simply want a little of the cake cutting and a little dancing filmed, then we are probably too much videography for them or their smaller event, and I recommend someone in their price range, letting them know they may not have wireless mics or other equipment we may use. Because the truth is we would be too much videography for their needs.
I'm sure that like me, most indie directors have a list of credits at the end thanking those who have provided school campuses, restaurants...etc., because the truth is many of these films would not happen without people giving. It's the nature of the business. Otherwise, they never get done.
And that's what I tell prospective wedding video clients. If they want to only spend $500, then I tell them we bring up to $10,000 worth of equipment for each event and if they simply want a little of the cake cutting and a little dancing filmed, then we are probably too much videography for them or their smaller event, and I recommend someone in their price range, letting them know they may not have wireless mics or other equipment we may use. Because the truth is we would be too much videography for their needs.
I'm sure that like me, most indie directors have a list of credits at the end thanking those who have provided school campuses, restaurants...etc., because the truth is many of these films would not happen without people giving. It's the nature of the business. Otherwise, they never get done.
Last edited:
In a shameless self promotional plug....
About 70% of the budget for my web series (kickstarter in my sig) is crew/actor pay. None of that pay goes to me, the producer, or the audio director who comprise the "production company".
Find good people, pay them, it's worth it.
About 70% of the budget for my web series (kickstarter in my sig) is crew/actor pay. None of that pay goes to me, the producer, or the audio director who comprise the "production company".
Find good people, pay them, it's worth it.
1) the posters (including myself at times) are up front about the compensation.
2) the potential respondents are perfectly capable of saying no thank you.
3) slavery precludes choice on the part of the slave.
I've worked for free and asked people to do so as well. When beginning, we gain information (often for free), then experience (also often without compensation) to boost our portfolio. I'm a decade in, finally to the point where people are contacting me rather than me having to create my own projects. I'm still working for free, but my professional portfolio is finally getting to the point where I can start getting jobs that pay.
Complaining about it as a problem belies the fact that there are legitimate transactions between people who either don't have access to the paying productions, or the funds to create their own paying productions. Those of you with paying jobs are in an enviable position to be able to look rom that position and say how wrong it is to ask for help (or to help) ... but for some of us, it's the only option for building our portfolios or skill sets.
MN has a huge film community, but the people getting paid for it, travel to the coasts to work. I (and I'm sure many others) don't have that luxury until the positions pay enough to support the travel, my mortgage and my family.
In the ridiculous post above for the editor/colorist, I'm sure they will not be able to find anyone who has made that kind of investment in equipment willing to work for free, so that problem solves itself.
I stopped seeking crew on Craigslist, because as soon as you ask for help, some jackhole flags the post and it gets taken down. It's a decade later, over a dozen productions at various levels of success, a cast/crew of 40-50 people many of whom call us and ask when the next one is... the whole time, we're working toward larger budgets that could afford to pay everyone, but so far, all out of our pockets with no return on investment. Not all of our crew wants to make the transition either. I've had conversations with members who want it to stay weekend fun for them a couple of times a year.
Payroll requires existing income. Not every production has it. This stuff is a personal sore spot as it's a legitimate transaction with compensation explained up front, and the ability to say no.
2) the potential respondents are perfectly capable of saying no thank you.
3) slavery precludes choice on the part of the slave.
I've worked for free and asked people to do so as well. When beginning, we gain information (often for free), then experience (also often without compensation) to boost our portfolio. I'm a decade in, finally to the point where people are contacting me rather than me having to create my own projects. I'm still working for free, but my professional portfolio is finally getting to the point where I can start getting jobs that pay.
Complaining about it as a problem belies the fact that there are legitimate transactions between people who either don't have access to the paying productions, or the funds to create their own paying productions. Those of you with paying jobs are in an enviable position to be able to look rom that position and say how wrong it is to ask for help (or to help) ... but for some of us, it's the only option for building our portfolios or skill sets.
MN has a huge film community, but the people getting paid for it, travel to the coasts to work. I (and I'm sure many others) don't have that luxury until the positions pay enough to support the travel, my mortgage and my family.
In the ridiculous post above for the editor/colorist, I'm sure they will not be able to find anyone who has made that kind of investment in equipment willing to work for free, so that problem solves itself.
I stopped seeking crew on Craigslist, because as soon as you ask for help, some jackhole flags the post and it gets taken down. It's a decade later, over a dozen productions at various levels of success, a cast/crew of 40-50 people many of whom call us and ask when the next one is... the whole time, we're working toward larger budgets that could afford to pay everyone, but so far, all out of our pockets with no return on investment. Not all of our crew wants to make the transition either. I've had conversations with members who want it to stay weekend fun for them a couple of times a year.
Payroll requires existing income. Not every production has it. This stuff is a personal sore spot as it's a legitimate transaction with compensation explained up front, and the ability to say no.
I think most in this thread have stated that it's ok to ask for free help a lot of the time.
The complaint about that craigslist ad is how he "asked" and the extend asked for. Sure he stated it's unpaid, but in the most ridiculous, over the top borderline offensive way you can. Asking people to volunteer an afternoon or a weekend for nothing but food in return is one thing, even asking a camera guy to bring a camera for a day is one thing (speaking from experience on both sides), but demanding that you have $50,000k worth of gear, years of experience and are a doormat for the privilege to spend 3 weeks just reviewing footage, then another 3 months editing 3 versions for a single thank you in form of a credit is demeaning to both working pros who invested the past ____ years and $_____ in their trade and the newbie/hobbyist looking for a break.
Also, credit should never be considered any form of compensation. It shouldn't even have to be mentioned in a for-hire ad. If you spend so much as 10 minutes, let alone 3 months working on a project you et credit. It goes without saying. Even commercials and formats that have no formal credit roll, you get credit for.
The complaint about that craigslist ad is how he "asked" and the extend asked for. Sure he stated it's unpaid, but in the most ridiculous, over the top borderline offensive way you can. Asking people to volunteer an afternoon or a weekend for nothing but food in return is one thing, even asking a camera guy to bring a camera for a day is one thing (speaking from experience on both sides), but demanding that you have $50,000k worth of gear, years of experience and are a doormat for the privilege to spend 3 weeks just reviewing footage, then another 3 months editing 3 versions for a single thank you in form of a credit is demeaning to both working pros who invested the past ____ years and $_____ in their trade and the newbie/hobbyist looking for a break.
Also, credit should never be considered any form of compensation. It shouldn't even have to be mentioned in a for-hire ad. If you spend so much as 10 minutes, let alone 3 months working on a project you et credit. It goes without saying. Even commercials and formats that have no formal credit roll, you get credit for.
Yeah, it's more that somebody had the balls to actually post this and/or the stupidity to think anybody would do it.
Some company needs a sound designer for no pay but credit.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/tfr/2136858028.html
The link didn't work for me.
There are those that will search craiglist for jobs and complain all day about the "slave labor" or what we call in the industry (interns) Half the people in my first few films did your so called "slave labor" and are now successful in acting, Dp, UPM, while the others that complained about working for free are still washing cars. Now I know there are the stupid ones out there, but it would be your fault for not looking at the credits of the person hiring.
^ This comment is not directed to anyone specific, just the idea this "Slave Labor"
If i'm going to provide let's see...
40 hours a week (would be more of course) for 12 weeks... so 480 hours.
We'll figure a CHEAP editors rate of about $25 an hour.
That comes to about $12,000 of free labor.
It better be Harvey Weinstein on the other end of the phone.
40 hours a week (would be more of course) for 12 weeks... so 480 hours.
We'll figure a CHEAP editors rate of about $25 an hour.
That comes to about $12,000 of free labor.
It better be Harvey Weinstein on the other end of the phone.
It doesn't hurt to ask for sure. It's just so funny in it's "So after you wash my car, do my laundry, cook me dinner, get me a beer, and give me a massage, how about a BJ", ballsiness.
Do I get "Film Credits" for all that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm7D5VRfaTI
Last edited:
I agree with Gonzo,
In some ways, being a sound designer and final mixer for a large film is more dangerous and difficult than being a lawyer on a high-profile celeb murder case.
In some ways the mentioned ad is equivalent to someone crag-listing the position as OJ's defense lawyer "to work for free and you'll get credit for it".
A lot of people don't give sound design or mixing the credit for being an extremely demanding and skilled profession.
In some ways, being a sound designer and final mixer for a large film is more dangerous and difficult than being a lawyer on a high-profile celeb murder case.
In some ways the mentioned ad is equivalent to someone crag-listing the position as OJ's defense lawyer "to work for free and you'll get credit for it".
A lot of people don't give sound design or mixing the credit for being an extremely demanding and skilled profession.
Amen to that. It's very tedious work. And you must keep backing up your work to secondary drives.
Acting is the fun stuff. Everyone wants to be a star. A sound editor job is hardly as glamorous.
Last edited:
Nobody notices sound - unless it sucks....
