When recording on location, if there is background sounds such as a lot of wind, sirens, cleaning machine sounds, should the sound guy recommend moving to another location where the sounds will not intefer with dialogue recordings? And, shouldn't the sound guy tell the director he heard a background sound while the actors were talking or making necessary sounds like panting after getting hit in the gut or whimpering on the ground as part of a scene?
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Location Audio Recording
- Thread starter Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC
- Start date
In the most ideal situation, the director is sitting in front of the directors monitor with a lair of headphones watching and listening to what is being recorded. That's sometimes hard to pull off with an indie budget though.
There's not a blanket answer. Sometimes if it's too windy to record clean audio, you can move to another location. Sometimes you can't change locations so you need to go the ADR route.
When working without a director's monitor or headphones, I'm usually behind the camera guy watching what he is, and at the end of a good take I ask everyone involved "how did that look?" and "how did that sound?". You need to let your crew know before you start though to flag stuff like that. Especially inexperienced crew, again normal on low/independent budget sets.
There's not a blanket answer. Sometimes if it's too windy to record clean audio, you can move to another location. Sometimes you can't change locations so you need to go the ADR route.
When working without a director's monitor or headphones, I'm usually behind the camera guy watching what he is, and at the end of a good take I ask everyone involved "how did that look?" and "how did that sound?". You need to let your crew know before you start though to flag stuff like that. Especially inexperienced crew, again normal on low/independent budget sets.
The audio recordists I have worked with will scout the location
with me. And he will advise on things I (as director) are not
paying attention to. That's why I hire one.
so much from the audio recordists I have worked with. Most I
have worked with even do location "ADR" when needed. They
have saved my ass many times.
with me. And he will advise on things I (as director) are not
paying attention to. That's why I hire one.
Of course. Especially on a very low budget shoot. I have learned
so much from the audio recordists I have worked with. Most I
have worked with even do location "ADR" when needed. They
have saved my ass many times.
In my production, the DP refused to be video tapped and the sound guy had the headphones.
When we shoot pickup footage next year, that will change. So, back to a small production where the sound guy is wearing the headphones and the DP just has a small screen on his camera . . .
When we shoot pickup footage next year, that will change. So, back to a small production where the sound guy is wearing the headphones and the DP just has a small screen on his camera . . .
ADR is the way this is heading, RIK. We will be shooting pickup footage next April. We'll do it then in my friend's recording studio where it comes out studio perfect.
In future productions, I will have the cast spend an afternoon in my friend's studio recording all of their dialogue ahead of time as a safe guard. My only concern is a cast member in Serbia and another who is now in North Carolina. Maybe they can record it locally and email me wav files.
Refusing a vid tap would be grounds for firing in my
world - even if I wasn't paying him. Why in hell would
a DP not want to monitor in this day and age is beyond
my understanding. And a recordist who did not provide
me with cans would not be on my best side.
On a small production an audio splitter and second set
of cable and cans should be standard. I can't imagine
any recordist not having those items - I carry my own
cans anyway. If I "hired" one on a small production
the next day I would buy a splitter and cable out of my
own pocket.
A good recordist will monitor the audio - all the audio - so
the director can pay attention to the performances.
world - even if I wasn't paying him. Why in hell would
a DP not want to monitor in this day and age is beyond
my understanding. And a recordist who did not provide
me with cans would not be on my best side.
On a small production an audio splitter and second set
of cable and cans should be standard. I can't imagine
any recordist not having those items - I carry my own
cans anyway. If I "hired" one on a small production
the next day I would buy a splitter and cable out of my
own pocket.
A good recordist will monitor the audio - all the audio - so
the director can pay attention to the performances.
That isn't what I meant - that sounds like a terrible option.
What I meant is if there are necessary sounds over the
dialogue (a door slam, footsteps) or unnecessary ones (dolly
noise, crew footsteps) we shoot the scene as normal and
then right there, on the spot, we record the lines. The
ambience is the same and the actors are in the moment.
Agreed. I was able to fix in post any issues with the DPs work. Starting next year my DP contracts will have what you just said.
I will invest in the splitter and, hopefully a new HG battery powered monitor.
As people here have said, shoot with the assumption that nothing can be fixed in post to minimize issues.
First, as I have stated frequently, the location should have been chosen for its sound - or lack of it - as much as for its visual aspects.
Once the director and producer have made their decision regarding the location, the production sound mixer has no choice but to deal it. If there is constant traffic there is not much the PSM can do about it. There are always going to be extraneous sounds when using real locations. The PSM will wait until the set is as quiet as it can get to call "speed", but you surely don't expect the PSM to cut the take just because there was the beep of someone unlocking their car down the street?
Directors and producers generally don't have much patience with anyone who interferes with their shooting schedule. Is the entire production going to wait for an hour while the landscapers do their job? How many low/no/micro budget projects have the budget to "bribe" a cleaning crew to postpone their office cleaning for several hours? It is the job of the director and producer to mitigate these problems as much as they can. This is part of what preproducing for sound is all about, finding out when landscapers, cleaning crews, motorcycle clubs, parades, skeet shooting contests, etc. are happening near their chosen location.
Now, as to individual sonic events like sirens, an obvious crew noise (i.e. a sneeze), wind hits and the like, yes, the PSM should notify the 1st AD, and notes should made on the sound log. But if the PSM is also the boom-op, as is the case on most low/no/micro budget projects, then the job of being the boom-op takes priority; his/her job is to capture the dialog. Most low/no/micro budget directors and producers don't even want to wait while while the PSM/boom-op maintains the audio log in the first place, much less take the extra time to note every extraneous noise.
And another point; the director and producer opted not to pay a fully professional sound crew, so they will have to deal with the shortcomings of sound folks who are probably learning their job just like the rest of the crew - and most probably the director as well. You get what you pay for.
Once the director and producer have made their decision regarding the location, the production sound mixer has no choice but to deal it. If there is constant traffic there is not much the PSM can do about it. There are always going to be extraneous sounds when using real locations. The PSM will wait until the set is as quiet as it can get to call "speed", but you surely don't expect the PSM to cut the take just because there was the beep of someone unlocking their car down the street?
Directors and producers generally don't have much patience with anyone who interferes with their shooting schedule. Is the entire production going to wait for an hour while the landscapers do their job? How many low/no/micro budget projects have the budget to "bribe" a cleaning crew to postpone their office cleaning for several hours? It is the job of the director and producer to mitigate these problems as much as they can. This is part of what preproducing for sound is all about, finding out when landscapers, cleaning crews, motorcycle clubs, parades, skeet shooting contests, etc. are happening near their chosen location.
Now, as to individual sonic events like sirens, an obvious crew noise (i.e. a sneeze), wind hits and the like, yes, the PSM should notify the 1st AD, and notes should made on the sound log. But if the PSM is also the boom-op, as is the case on most low/no/micro budget projects, then the job of being the boom-op takes priority; his/her job is to capture the dialog. Most low/no/micro budget directors and producers don't even want to wait while while the PSM/boom-op maintains the audio log in the first place, much less take the extra time to note every extraneous noise.
And another point; the director and producer opted not to pay a fully professional sound crew, so they will have to deal with the shortcomings of sound folks who are probably learning their job just like the rest of the crew - and most probably the director as well. You get what you pay for.
All good to know. Thank you for this vaaluable information.
We will be shooting exactly where we were this past summer next April. So, we should be able to capture some of that audio with the right ambience there. I don't have enough ambience to cover in between shots. So, we will record on location ambience to replace the silence.
Thanks gentlemen for the very good 411. I'm on a mission to make each new shoot better than the last. This is very helpful stuff here.
That's the way it should be done. A soundie hears the location, and it's not unusual for him/her to use a mic to listen as the mic presents you with what the location sounds like when recorded, not as your ears hear it which is very different.
ADR cannot be done ahead of time. ADR is Automated Dialog Replacement, meaning exactly that; you replace the existing dialog. There is no way that you will be able to predict exactly the pacing and the emotions that will evolve during the shooting of a scene.
On a perfect set the boom-op, production sound mixer, director and the script supervisor will all wear headphones. It's not a bad idea for the DP and 1st AD to have headphones as well.
This process is called recording wilds. As 'Rik mentioned the sound of the set (ambience/room-tone, etc.) is the same and the actors are in the moment so their performances will be very close; dialog wilds are always very nice to have because you can substitute just a word or a line and maintain sonic integrity, and you have a good chance of saving the time, money and frustration of ADR sessions. You can also catch those whispers, grunts, groans, and other vocalizations to drop in later. If you are not going to be doing a full audio post recording WiFo (Wild Foley) and sound FX (doors, props, vehicles) to drop in later can also be extremely helpful. This means that during dialog editing you can substitute the word from the dialog wilds when the character slams the door (which is drowning out the dialog) and have control over the volume of the door when you mix. It's very nice to have all of these options when editing and mixing the audio! But this means that you have to take the time to do all of these things; that's an extra 15 to 45 minutes for every set-up, so you have to reduce your expectations regarding the number of pages you will shoot each day.
You are filming people verbally interacting with each other. The characters/actors are interacting with physical objects that create sounds. This is what I mean about expending just as much time/effort on your sound as you do on the visuals. Your audience should not have to work at understanding what the characters are saying, it pulls them out of the film.
I remember a 16MM production I did with some friends at Pratt University. The only guy with headphones was the location recordist with a big reel recorder. He nailed every stray sound and told us to make another take if an airplane passed or a fire truck.
In small productions, this is more of the norm. The recordist is expected to say soomething while the director is busy with a million other tasks.
I will say I am unsatisfied with too many one takes where stray sounds killed the audio and I had to cut valuable sounds short that the actors made to add emotion to the ecene.
I digitally removed a bypasser walking behind an actress as she was saying her dialogue so no one will even know the bypasser was there. But, removing a siren as an actresss is panting for a scene where she got belly punched by a cyborg, sending her flying 20 feet away is not so easy. I had to cut the panting short. We should have been told we need another take. If a studnet sound guy can nail it every time, why can't an experienced pro?
I do agree we should have more crew people around for location scouting. That will be implemented starting with our pickup shoot next April.
In small productions, this is more of the norm. The recordist is expected to say soomething while the director is busy with a million other tasks.
I will say I am unsatisfied with too many one takes where stray sounds killed the audio and I had to cut valuable sounds short that the actors made to add emotion to the ecene.
I digitally removed a bypasser walking behind an actress as she was saying her dialogue so no one will even know the bypasser was there. But, removing a siren as an actresss is panting for a scene where she got belly punched by a cyborg, sending her flying 20 feet away is not so easy. I had to cut the panting short. We should have been told we need another take. If a studnet sound guy can nail it every time, why can't an experienced pro?
I do agree we should have more crew people around for location scouting. That will be implemented starting with our pickup shoot next April.