lighting Lighting for my first short, "Madness"

[TruEsTaR]

I wrote a short film script about a year ago depicting insanity. I intend on casting a friend of mine who is borderline insane, yet a great actor. (much like klaus kinski)

My problem is I have absolutely NO experience with lighting. I've read a few things, but I plan on shooting this short (which will be roughly 3-5 minutes) in downtown Cleveland, and Lorain Ohio.

The question is, does it really matter which way the sun is facing my actors/actresses? Should I only rely on sunlight since the entire film is in an ext. setting? (outdoors) Or should I pick up a lighting kit now?
And if I do pick up a kit, which would be a decent one to compliment a Panasonic ag-Dvx100b?

Also, something else I wondered. Is shooting without a permit guerrilla style going to get me fined or in trouble in cleveland?

I have this one key scene where my actor slams a homeless mans head against the back of a bus stop bench. (not the actual bench, but the back behind it).

I originally intended on doing this around real citizens and telling them I was shooting a "student film" (even though thats a lie). But I'm looking for a more "REAL" type of effect.

In addition to the lighting question, has anyone tried this before?

 

[directorik]

The question is, does it really matter which way the sun is facing my actors/actresses?

Yes. You will find if you point the camera towards the sun, at the
actor, the image won't look as nice as it will if you have the sun
behind the camera, the light falling on the actor.

Should I only rely on sunlight since the entire film is in an ext. setting? (outdoors) Or should I pick up a lighting kit now?

No. You don't need a lighting kit now. Shooting all exteriors will
look just fine using only natural light. As you get better making
movies and more comfortable and build a team, you can work
more with lighting.

And if I do pick up a kit, which would be a decent one to compliment a Panasonic ag-Dvx100b?

A lighting kit is a lighting kit is a lighting kit. The camera you use
doesn't come into play when choosing.

Lowel makes nice kits. Tungsten lights with stands, barndoors and
hard case. Britek makes nice light kits - cheaper than Lowel and
not as durable, but very usable. You can also check Arri lights -
more expensive and worth every penny. I have a Lowel 6 light kit
with the Omni’s and Tota’s that I bought new in 1985 and am still
using it 25 years later.

You can use clamp on work lights and a couple of paper lanterns.

Also, something else I wondered. Is shooting without a permit guerrilla style going to get me fined or in trouble in cleveland?

http://www.clevelandfilm.com/

I have this one key scene where my actor slams a homeless mans head against the back of a bus stop bench. (not the actual bench, but the back behind it).

I originally intended on doing this around real citizens and telling them I was shooting a "student film" (even though thats a lie). But I'm looking for a more "REAL" type of effect.

In addition to the lighting question, has anyone tried this before?

I started shooting like that. I'll be we all did. Why not say you're shooting
a short film? Why tell anyone you're a student?

 

[TruEsTaR]

Yes. You will find if you point the camera towards the sun, at the
actor, the image won't look as nice as it will if you have the sun
behind the camera, the light falling on the actor.

No. You don't need a lighting kit now. Shooting all exteriors will
look just fine using only natural light. As you get better making
movies and more comfortable and build a team, you can work
more with lighting.

A lighting kit is a lighting kit is a lighting kit. The camera you use
doesn't come into play when choosing.

Lowel makes nice kits. Tungsten lights with stands, barndoors and
hard case. Britek makes nice light kits - cheaper than Lowel and
not as durable, but very usable. You can also check Arri lights -
more expensive and worth every penny. I have a Lowel 6 light kit
with the Omni’s and Tota’s that I bought new in 1985 and am still
using it 25 years later.

You can use clamp on work lights and a couple of paper lanterns.


http://www.clevelandfilm.com/


I started shooting like that. I'll be we all did. Why not say you're shooting
a short film? Why tell anyone you're a student?

I've heard police tend to be more lenient on student filmmakers than indie filmmakers. If telling them that can save me from a $100-$200 fee, I have to do it.

 

[wheatgrinder]

Light kit might be problematic if you have "unsecured" locations (guerrilla style)


Particularly in that you don't know where the electricity is coming from and you might have to scoot in a HURRY. Anything you cant haul at a fast jog. leave at home

Natural light will be fine, find a friend and invest in a big bounce card \ reflector jobbie, that should help with any light fill you might need, also works block light.


Where this comes in real handy is if you want to expose the background darkly (like trying to get sky detail), but cant because you end up underexposing the actor because you have to expose to the bright background..., with the bounce card, you can direct more light onto the actor and gain some latitude in how you expose the background.

I would definitely recommend practicing this technique before your official shoot.. just need an actor and someone to hold the card ..

 

[directorik]

I've heard police tend to be more lenient on student filmmakers than indie filmmakers. If telling them that can save me from a $100-$200 fee, I have to do it.

What if the police ask you what school you are attending?
And then they figure you lied to them when you can't offer
the proof?

No I don't know nothin' about shooting in Cleveland, but I
have shot my fair share of movies without permission. More
than my fair share. I have been stopped by police four times.
I told them I was making a short film, they told me I couldn't
shoot on city streets without a permit, I apologized and we
moved on. I feel pretty sure if I had told them I was student
they would have asked where. I do not know what would have
happened then, but knowing cops, I can't imagine they would
politely told me to move along.

Good luck to ya!

 

[TruEsTaR]

What if the police ask you what school you are attending?
And then they figure you lied to them when you can't offer
the proof?

No I don't know nothin' about shooting in Cleveland, but I
have shot my fair share of movies without permission. More
than my fair share. I have been stopped by police four times.
I told them I was making a short film, they told me I couldn't
shoot on city streets without a permit, I apologized and we
moved on. I feel pretty sure if I had told them I was student
they would have asked where. I do not know what would have
happened then, but knowing cops, I can't imagine they would
politely told me to move along.

Good luck to ya!

lol, you're right. My same buddy who told me it will take me a year minimum to get decent at editing told me this, but he doesn't have any experience actually doing it. I should quit asking him for advice.... I figured he was right before and a student i.d. would be proof enough for some cops.

Dov Simens said to carry $100 bills and slip them to the cops if they give you trouble. He told us they'll let it go then.

I know Alfred Hitchcock used to call the N.Y. police "New York's worst" when filming there because of all the hassle they gave him.

 

[TruEsTaR]

Light kit might be problematic if you have "unsecured" locations (guerrilla style)


Particularly in that you don't know where the electricity is coming from and you might have to scoot in a HURRY. Anything you cant haul at a fast jog. leave at home

Natural light will be fine, find a friend and invest in a big bounce card \ reflector jobbie, that should help with any light fill you might need, also works block light.


Where this comes in real handy is if you want to expose the background darkly (like trying to get sky detail), but cant because you end up underexposing the actor because you have to expose to the bright background..., with the bounce card, you can direct more light onto the actor and gain some latitude in how you expose the background.

I would definitely recommend practicing this technique before your official shoot.. just need an actor and someone to hold the card ..

thanks. i'll try it out.

 

[David.rhsc]

lol, you're right. My same buddy who told me it will take me a year minimum to get decent at editing told me this, but he doesn't have any experience actually doing it. I should quit asking him for advice.... I figured he was right before and a student i.d. would be proof enough for some cops.

Dov Simens said to carry $100 bills and slip them to the cops if they give you trouble. He told us they'll let it go then.

I know Alfred Hitchcock used to call the N.Y. police "New York's worst" when filming there because of all the hassle they gave him.

Um... with all due respect to Mr. Simens, offering to bribe a cop is rarely a good idea; in the likely chance you get one who will ding you for the, what I believe is, a felony. I know and have worked with quite a few career police officers, and if they are any sort of decent sample set, the chances of randomly meeting a cop who will take a bribe like that are pretty low.

Edit:

In the few times I've been on productions that have been approached by police, they don't care if you are Warner Brothers, or if you are making your first film ever for your community college acting class - Permit or no, that is the question. You want to pull the student film thing with your local film liaison office - most of them will give permits (within reasonable bounds) to student films for free. At least they do here in Oakland. By the time a cop comes to stop you, saying "I'm a student" isn't going to help very much. Just play dumb, be nice, and be along your merry way when they ask you to go.

And as others have mentioned, just go for it. At worst you get asked to move along, at best (and more likely) no one bothers you save for the random lookie-loo - even in super expensive, super elite "You are not good enough to film here" Petaluma, CA the police only come to check on you if someone has complained. The problem is that there, everyone complains.

 

[TruEsTaR]

Yes. You will find if you point the camera towards the sun, at the
actor, the image won't look as nice as it will if you have the sun
behind the camera, the light falling on the actor.

Yes, but if I am trying to show the actor in a darker, scary imagine of the main characters insanity, wouldn't it be a good idea to have a silhouette type of lighting going on?

 

[Dreadylocks]

Dov Simens said to carry $100 bills and slip them to the cops if they give you trouble. He told us they'll let it go then.

Do NOT do this!!

Like David said, if the police approach you, just play dumb and be respectful. Remember that the police are on your side, they more than likely don't want to write some kid a ticket because he's trying to make a short film. So be friendly with them if they show up

 

[directorik]

Yes, but if I am trying to show the actor in a darker, scary imagine of the main characters insanity, wouldn't it be a good idea to have a silhouette type of lighting going on?

Absolutely!

So here's what you do: you take your camera into
you front yard (or over to the local park) with a friend
and a notebook. You try several different things, writing
down exactly what you did for each test. You try putting
the "actor" between the lens and the sun, you shoot
with sun behind the "actor" with the sun in front, to the
side; you change the shutter speed and the iris.

Take an hour or so to test out some different methods.
Bring along a piece of foamcore to use as bounce and to
cast shadows on the "actors" face. Then put every shot
into you editing system and look at it - or just watch each
shot on a TV. See what YOU like and think of things you
can do to change the look using only the sun and the "actors"
and cameras position.

You're a creative guy. Time to get creative!