Lets get serious about distribution

OK. When you think about film making long enough you realise that distribution is the key to the whole business. Without a paying audience film making is just an expensive hobby.

I've noticed that of all the topics that get discussed, distribution is the one that perhaps we talk about least. I think this is because although we all know that we can get a camera, write a script, shoot and edit a film, finding a paying audience is the one part of the equation that alludes most indie film makers worldwide.

I'd like us to change that. Seriously.

As a group we are spread all over the world and each of us is part of a larger, local film making community or even just part of a larger community with an interest in films.

I guess I'm wondering whether that is something that we can make work for ourselves.

Could we, for instance, set up our own international distribution circuit, showing indie films from around the world in local venues using video projection and PA's for the sound?

Just to put a perspective on this, most cinemas in the UK are charged $140-$200 a week to rent a film print, plus a percentage of the box office. This is the same whether it's the local mulit-plex or the local arthouse cinema. The problem with getting cinema distribution for indie films is that the film prints are so expensive, that print runs are kept low and this decreases the chances of the distributor making their money back.

So, lets imagine that between us, right now, we can set up ten UK based indie-cinemas (referred to from now on as i-cinema), maybe a couple in Europe, four in Oz and fifty across the US.

Let's say that an i-cinema is a video projector based cinema, in a non-traditional venue that has a showing once a month and that each night shows four shorts and a feature, charging $5 a head.

Providing that you can cut a deal with the venue in that they get to keep the bar receipts and therfore they give you the venue for free (a pretty easy deal to cut), if $100 dollars goes to the films ($80 to the feature, $5 to each of the shorts), therefore if you can get 50 people a month to the event, the organiser has $150 to cover any other expenses/profit.

This would mean that if a feature was shown across the entire network it would bring in $5000.

Now I know that this is small money, but the actual value of this is that you can build the credibilty of the film by opening it up to a global audience. This could be used either to lever a mainstream distribution deal or to drive direct DVD sales from a website.

The goal, of course is to set up a network of several thousand venues worldwide. With several thousand venues the maths gets to the point where distribution by this network alone becomes commercially viable for lo budget films.

Of course, there are issues. Of which the most important is, are there enough films of a high enough quality to build both audience and the reputation of i-cinema? The whole thing will die a death if people aren't stunned by the quality of the films.

So, talk to me. I'm not suggesting we set this up this week. All I'm doing is suggesting that we may have the power to do something about distribution, other than pretent that it isn't an issue. I'm open to ideas, but more importantly let's talk seriously about this subject and what strenghts we have as an international community.

Just to give a clear idea of where this could go, in the US alone, with just ten i-cinema per state, the takings for a feature from one showing across the whole network would be $400,000.
 
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I agree with Shaw, miniDV offers a much lower resolution than DVD. I've projected both and miniDV really falls apart when projected in even small venues.

If we had to go down a tape option digibeta is by far the best SD option, as it's industry standard and it is great for retaining information. Ideally a I'd like to use a HD format, because then you are looking at proper cinema grade images. However the cost issues become very, very real when you are looking at large scale distribution of digibeta tapes.

Personally, I'm going to test a DVD projection at my prefered venue this Friday and see what it looks like.
 
Clive does the projector there automatically upres when projecting? I'm just curious because I know some do and some do not which will affect the look on screen.

I'd love to project HD too but I honestly can't think of an economical way to do it. I can do it with a laptop and projector but not everyone has access to the necessary tools and distributing HD content is harder.
 
I'm not even sure which projector they're using. I'll let you know whether it upres' or not.

The UK film council just funded a series of HD cinemas and they're paying £100,000 per cinema for the decks and projectors. The tape stock alone is prohibitively expensive.

I think that for this kind of idea it's important to keep things as simpleand low cost as possible and DVD is that format. The only other possibility I see is an MP2 at about the same res as DVD or maybe slightly better, this could be played off a laptop.
 
But, depending on the file size of said video file, it's still going to have to go to CD or DVD as a file. And with the same level of resolution once projected (give or take), it seems a lot of extra, unnessary steps, and a lot more that can go wrong.

The only thing to make sure of would be that the DVD players reader + and - DVDs, or make people burn one of each and send both.
 
But, depending on the file size of said video file, it's still going to have to go to CD or DVD as a file. And with the same level of resolution once projected (give or take), it seems a lot of extra, unnessary steps, and a lot more that can go wrong.

Actually having them as MP2's removes most of the distribution problems, because the films could be stored on an FTP server and each organiser could download their selection rather than having to have a person co-ordinate the distribution of the films.

My only concern is whether this kind of system would be robust.
 
Well, in order to keep a thing like this alive, there has to be rules, or guidelines, if you will.
There has to be a line between quality of film and quantity. We should discuss that.
I can see local filmmakers and thier friends/families attending thier local showing, but after the film goes through the network- there needs to be an audience at the other venues. Granted, there will be regulars, but not enough (I think) to completely fund this idea... that's more of a reason to target areas with film schools. Ideally, if we can get cities with high populations of filmmakers, and advertise this idea to filmmakers primarily (along with independant buffs), we might be able to get a sustainable audience... the problem lies in getting people every month, for every film. I think it should be up to each organizer to determine the format they need. Once a consensus of majority is reached, the proper format should be chosen. I know the cinema in Toronto supports all formats... I could download here and burn to DVD- easy and quick solution... or if something better comes along, it can be accomodated.
The best way to start this is with a cheap and easy solution, and work from there.
Funding: Who do we turn to for sponsors? How do we raise money otherwise? Any ideas?
Rules/Guidelines: What constitutes a film worthy of submission? What limitations do we impose?
Format: Download to Dvd? What is the most COMMON way of showing this?
Audience: Where do we target our audience? What incentives do they get for coming? There has to be some sort of bonus other than the movies... if we can get guests of importance, or have a prize system... something to make it really seem like a special event.

And furthermore... if we have some form of voting system in place for a year-end contest (basically a festival in the traditional sense) and have winners, you will maintain a better audience return, because filmmakers will come back next week to see thier competitors, or try and vote against them (lol... fighting dirty). By having the sense of a prolonged, year-long fesitval, I think there will be more interest... kind of like a "Tune in next month..." sort of feeling.

Discuss.

-Logan-
 
Hi Guys

I visited the Baltic yesterday, very interesting. They have a 54 seat cinema and a space that can be converted to seat 250. Both already have digital projectors. In fact the 54 seater has 16mm projection and the large space has 35mm.

The costs of hiring is too much for this project, but I'm going in again to talk to their programming team and I may be able to get them to give me the space for free.

I've got other options, but this is my favorite because this is a venue with an international reputation and it's just stunning.

More later.
 
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Very impressive venue, Clive.

I spoke again with the owner of our local Community Theater and he's quite interested in the idea. We discussed the idea of having a "whole weekend" festival and we may be able to have the theater for greatly reduced (or no) cost.

There are several film festivals in Boston - but outside the city it's pretty barren. I'll get some pictures of the theater and post them this week, it's a pretty nice place. Not quite as impressive as the Baltic, but it has a quaint charm.
 
I would imagine lots of (most?) bigger cities have some kind of small, independent cinema. Perhaps approaching them about the project would be the most effective means of getting the video out? The producer gets the ticket sales, and the theatres gets the concession (which is where they make all their money anyway).

I'd have to check and see if anyone in town is set up for digital projection, but it certainly can't hurt to ask around, can it?
 
It is possible to wrangle a bunch of art houses into a "network" of venues, but this legwork is what distributors already do for their own pictures. Theatres will always have the issue of a limited # of films they can show during any given week.

There are so many festivals out there that they form a distribution network unto themselves, except that they don't really pay filmmakers anything. I have been hoping that a bunch of festivals will band together for more cable channels (similar to Sundance channel). Any film accepted to the fest can also get the option of play on television for revenue. (Some films will not want or need this, but it would be a great thing to offer).

I think the best hope for indie cinema is to take it where the audience is.. at home. Pay per view, more indie film channels, etc. etc. all have plenty of room for growth.

I would dearly like to know more about the financials of starting a cable channel or making any given indie film available for pay per view.

Unfortunately, many festivals out there are taking filmmakers for a profitable ride, along with withoutabox.com - I use their service, but I also know they are reaping obscene profits from filmmakers.
 
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filmscheduling said:
It is possible to wrangle a bunch of art houses into a "network" of venues, but this legwork is what distributors already do for their own pictures. Theatres will always have the issue of a limited # films they can show during any given week.

There are so many festivals out there that they form a distribution network unto themselves, except that they don't really pay filmmakers anything. I have been hoping that a bunch of festivals will band together for more cable channels (similar to Sundance channel). Any film accepted to the fest can also get the option of play on television for revenue. (Some films will not want or need this, but it would be a great thing to offer).

I think the best hope for indie cinema is to take it where the audience is.. at home. Pay per view, more indie film channels, etc. etc. all have plenty of room for growth.

I would dearly like to know more about the financials of starting a cable channel or making any given indie film available for pay per view.

Unfortunately, many festivals out there are taking filmmakers for a profitable ride, along with withoutabox.com - I use their service, but I also know they are reaping obscene profits from filmmakers.

That's a great idea Per. If this gets off the ground, we could start with some of the regulars: Bravo, HBO, Showtime, Sundance, Independent Film Network, etc.

I still think that this thing could fly.

Chris
 
Getting an i-cinema chain to be economic for all parties involved is marginal at best and I think filmscheduling has a good point. I think the choke point is always going to be who actually organsies the distribution and what they get for their trouble (It's a full time job for someone)

The cabel channel idea is a good one. I'll look into the UK issues.
 
Just to let you guys know that I haven't forgotten this thread, I've just been tied up on other things. Plus I'm still thinking aobut all the input and trying to tie the ideas together into a workable formula. I think I'm almost there with it.
 
Preserving Ownership in Film Company

I'm a newbie to the forum. I have acting and primitive documentary experience, but little actual distribution experience--but let me throw in a couple of observations.

First, there is no reason why a group of us could not form a production company at very little expense. There is no reason why we could not produce films at reasonable expense. Just think of all the equipment and talent that would be accessible in such a company. And, investors like to deal with well-formed legal entities rather than loose groups of wannabies. Having a corporate structure can mean a lot when negotiating with lenders and investors.

And, Clive is absolutely right about one thing: you must have QUALITY or you lose respect with the distribution companies and their outlets. You can film the sleaziest and most campy script in the world, but it must be filmed professionally with good acting, sound, etc.

And, there is the question of what kind of ownership you want to preserve when dealing with distributors. I recall, for example, that Al Adamson and Sam Sherman, two of the great exploitation film producers ("Girls for Rent" and "I Spit on Your Corpse") have repeatedly said that filmmakers should preserve TOTAL ownership in their films. These two successful producers would sell the distribution rights to their exploitation films to distribution companies for a term of years (usually 5 years). This way, after the leasing distribution company petered-out on its effort, the film returned to the owners (where it could be modified as a re-release). Sherman and Adamson would sit on the returned film for a year or so and then sell another term of years to another distributor. Their low-budget films are still being seen all over the world in smaller movie houses, and they have entered the DVD market. Sherman will quickly tell you not to ever sell away the rights to your film. Lease it, but do not sell it. So, with this in mind, and in consideration of the excellent comments by Clive, I would suggest that the formation of such an entity should first consider exactly what kind of ownership of the finished film is to be considered. If several of us syndicate a legal entity in which we all own an interest, we should commit to producing high quality fims as well as also preserving the total ownership rights in the films. The term of years contract protects the producer/owner when the distributor has financial problems, goes bankrupt, merges or is bought-out by another company. Companies are bellying-up everywhere, and we should be careful about allowing any distributor too much control. The term of years agreement solves most of these issues. Al Sherman said that the only thing a film producer really has of value is the ownership in his copyrighted product.

The really sticky part of such a venture would be how people would contribute to the corporate effort to produce films. There are many people who would want to be a part of such an entity. There would have to be developed some kind of control as to how film makers would participate in the films. I look at it as sort of a "cooperative" in the same sense as farm cooperatives, grocery buying cooperatives, etc. There are membership fees with a board of directors that guides the entity.

You can see it might be a sticky issue when we have to determine who will actually have control of the selection process as to which films go to production, and who actually gets to write, act, film, etc. during the production. These issues are not insurmountable, however, they will simply take some thought. We have all seen what happens when CEOs feel their company is simply a source for enormous salaries and Golden Parachute termination contracts. The movie industry is full of these parasitical people. We would need to devise some method by which the leaders of the entity were under tight control as to salary and the owners received reasonable dividends. By retaining all rights, monies would continually flow into the entity. A percentage of this income could be banked for support of future films.

I hope this comment gives you all some food for thought.

Wild Bill
 
standard distribution agreements

Unless a film is fully financed by a studio, Producers almost always retain the rights to their productions. Currently distribution licenses usually start at 5 years in length and work there way up (this is negoitable). Most of these agreements have minimum performance clauses that will cause the distribution deal to be void should the distributor not meet the agreed upon revenue numbers. They may also trigger extensions should the distributor meet/exceed the agreed revenue levels (all negoitable). Minimum guarantees (money paid upfront by distributors to producer) also act as an incentive for distributors to meet the agreed upon goals. The more money you get them to pay upfront the harder they hustle to make it back. Of course the more upfront money, the longer the want the film's distribution rights.
 
I think this whole idea is really exciting. I think the 'franchise' type approach with independent operators afilliating to the scheme and putting on shows where ever they can, from the back room of a pub to a fully equipped cinema. Running a scheduled list of films every month or two weeks which rotates through the network. If there is a sign up fee or similar that could be used for admin and central advertising (branding and awareness), with operators putting on their own local advertising (taking advantage of any brand awareness developed), whether i-cinema, underdog independents or whatever. I'd be interested in getting involved, even though the only venues I think I would initially be able to get interested would be pubs.
 
This project hasn't gone away, it's just shuffled down the list whilst I take care of more pressing matters.

Keep watching this space for more later in the year.
 
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