Know Your Movie

[Redemption]

Since I have been back to indietalk.com I noticed this forum on distribution. So I decided that perhaps I could contribute some information that would help my fellow filmmakers in their quest to make films that actually see the light of day.

Many of you know my qualifications to speak on this subject but for those of you that don’t I will qualify by saying that my first feature “Redemption” was distributed on home video by Artisan in the United States and Canada. In the last couple of weeks it was sold to Greece and the Netherlands. I will also add that I spent five years at E! Entertainment covering the movie and TV industry, and I directed the DVD Premiere awards for the Reed Business Group(Daily Variety, Video Business ECT).

So to say the least I have had the opportunity to speak to some industry “experts” on the subject of distribution specifically home video and theatrical although I did not mange to make it to the theaters on “Redemption”.

The first step in my mind should be taken before you produce the film, in your development process it is imperative to know or at least have a plan to sell your film. Unless you don’t plan to sell it or you are going to self distribute and you really still need to know how you are going to market your product.

With “Redemption” I knew if I didn’t make the theaters that I still had a chance with home video. I always set out to make the theaters and if I would have budgeted correctly I would have done a two week run in Los Angeles, you can put your film in most theaters around the county for two weeks for approximately $12,000. Ash the director of “Bang” used that formula and got a distributor.

One of the main things that I worked on with the team is having a consistent pitch. For “Redemption” it was an urban “Romeo and Juliet” meets “Boyz in the Hood” meets “Hollywood Shuffle” this immediately puts a sense of the movie in the minds of potential buyers.

Okay so the first step know your movie, next time I will talk about genre and why I believe some of the things you hear are true and some aren’t. Please feel free to ask questions and let me know if this has been helpful or what you would like to hear next. I am not claiming to be an expert but hopefully I am sharing some of my success and other cases my failures so you can avoid them.

 

[clive]

You keep on asking the same question in different threads. That's why you're not getting any answers.

I've also warned you any number of times, as have other people, about nagging. Stomping your feet and demanding answers isn't the way to get things done here... but as you seem unable to learn that lesson, I'm going to stop answering any of your questions.

 

[ad2478]

I am sorry CLive .well may be i have not been able to ask the question in a right way anywas once again i am sorry..

 

[ad2478]

I HOPE YOU WILL ACCEPT MY APOLOGY.

 

[mdifilm]

Sean is, I believed, currently moved back to LA, he was also a producer for Peter John Ross' Horror of War and also a good friend, when he first moved to Cleveland, we hang out and was thinking of collaborating a bit, Sean almost helped produce The Rapture as well, sadly, our timing were off, he also provided some good insight on his endeavour with HD shooting and gave me some input. I have his movie here and was excited to see it finaly at Hollywood Video for rental.

 

[ad2478]

Thnaks mdifilm
for the info i have noted his name and planning to download any one movie made by him

well CLIVE i am agin sorry .hope you are listening to me

 

[crashtinkle]

WOW.

I'm new here, and this is the second thread I've read. I'm looking for an online community of film-makers, basically because I got sick of filling all my other forums with film talk where it wasn't really wanted. But yeah, this line of conversation started out really well, and then turned into some kind of weird conflict I am obviously unfamiliar with.

Being a film-maker myself and hanging out with film people quite a lot, I understand how big a douche many film people can be. For example, in a conversation about distribution, somebody instantly asks 'Hey, where can i make a profit?'

For me, this is backwards thinking. Film distribution from the artists point of view isn't about where you can make a buck, if that was the case, then you'd finish a film and try to sell the rights to it straight away for as much money as you can and then move on letting someone else worry about if it's going to be received well or not. Might as well put someone else's name on the film.

The main question you need to ask, and this ties back to the initial post about 'knowing your film' is 'why did I make this film?'

The answer should be, because I want people to watch it. Not because I want to generate ticket revenue.

If you look at Evil Dead, for example, those guys made that film because they wanted to make a film without question, and they ran it themselves at a simple theater around town. You can quite easily finish a film and submit it to different festivals and hope that it gets picked up by some-one, much like buying a lottery ticket. Or you can do the hard work in getting it out there yourself, find a few theaters around and pay to hire it for a few nights and screen your film. On average it costs about a third of what you could make from a full house in order to hire the cinema.

It's your responsibility to advertise the film to hell once you've arranged a screening schedule, and then people are watching your film, and talking about your film, and hopefully you will make enough money to pay for the next weeks rental of the cinema so you can show it again, otherwise you'll have to pay for it out of your own pocket again, just so people will see what you've made.

If you want to set your mind on the long run, then this kind of activity is what I call 'generating'. It creates momentum, it helps you learn and it gets you known, and it attracts people to you who are involved in distribution, or it teaches you how to do a distribution run yourself. And it proves to the world that your not just some fly-by-nighter who made a movie to make a quick buck. As an audience member I feel betrayed by that kind of attitude.

Do you honestly go to a film screening thinking 'Yeah, I'm going to give a film-maker some money'... if not, then you shouldn't treat your audience as if that's what they are doing.

 

[clive]

I've always said if someone wants to make video for profit, then feature films should be way down your list of products to make... it's difficult, time consuming, requires massive skill levels and even the best people in business misjudge the market on a regular basis... so, on that score I agree with you

Oh and welcome to the forum!

However, with that said, I don't think having a business strategy for your movie is a bad thing either... I think far too many indies see giving it away on Youtube or at the best self distribution of a DVD as the limits of their distribution strategy.

Sean Reid who started this thread made a nice HD movie, when there were only a few of us shooting HD, I made my second feature, on HD, as he was making his first.

Now, where Sean did well is he managed to pull his film into a distribution slot... and take his movie out to an audience via mainstream channels... sure he still ran round the forums publicizing his film, but for the actual distribution he took it back to the industry.

I think lots of indies don't even consider this an option... or if they do, they do it too late in the production process. Or in other words they adopt a "field of dreams... if they make it, they will come" attitude... only problem is, by the time they consider distribution, they've already built too many downsides into the project.

So, for instance, ill defined genre, or in a genre that won't sell without a name attached... lack of detail when it comes to contractual arrangements with actors and crew, so there isn't a complete set of deliverables... the list goes on and on

So, whilst I agree that a film needs to be targeted at an audience... and built on that basis, understanding the needs and requirements of the industry is also important.

 

[ad2478]

crashtinkle

well you are new so welcome.well actually i was trying to ask as mentiones Europe dont like US comedy so i wanted to to know actually what is the type of comedy Europe generally like , becaus ei have some where mentioned in this site that i am personaly interested in comedy genre and zombie genre. but thanks to the lack of not choosing the right words i got scolded by my spiritual teacher CLIVE (others are too in the list of my teachers). It was my fault .Then i thought not to make any more posts (to clear myself) or he will get angry for me and will not answer my questions.


well i cant afford to loose teachers like him so i decided to keep my mouth shut(what an idiot i am)

so friend dont think there is some wierd thing going on here []

 

[ad2478]

CLIVE

I AM REALLY SORRY IF YOU AGAIN GET ANGRY BUT CAN YOU TELL ME WHEN YOU SAID

, they do it too late in the production process

YOU MEAN DISTRIBUTION STRATEGY SHOULD BE STARTED MORE EARLIER?

OR YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SHOWING MOVIE BY THEMSELVES BY RENTING A CINEMA.IS THAT WHAT YOU MEANT?

 

[VPTurner]

Typing in all caps means you are yelling in Internet speak, and that certainly won't get you any brownie points.

Crashtinkle, yes, there is a history here of which you are unaware. Please don't use this thread as an example of the community because this is a great place to get questions answered as long as you are respectful and patient.

If you look at the date when this thread was first started, it was in 2004, so it's not likely the original poster is just sitting here, waiting to answer questions.

 

[indietalk]

ad2478, please start a new thread with your questions, and try to get them all in on post. They are all over this thread and other threads, that are old or not yours. Too confusing. Thanks.

 

[Spatula]

CLIVE

I AM REALLY SORRY IF YOU AGAIN GET ANGRY BUT CAN YOU TELL ME WHEN YOU SAID

YOU MEAN DISTRIBUTION STRATEGY SHOULD BE STARTED MORE EARLIER?

OR YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SHOWING MOVIE BY THEMSELVES BY RENTING A CINEMA.IS THAT WHAT YOU MEANT?

I'll take a stab at this, if you don't mind (being stabbed, that is)..

Yes, Clive was referring to the fact that most indies go and make movies without planning ahead in the process.

Elliot Grove, the founder of Raindance (UK), said in a short seminar I went to, that when you're making a film, you want to start at the end and go backwards to the beginning before even WRITING it.

So, look at the process like this:

AUDIENCE/MARKETING
1) You've got your idea.... now who is this movie intended for? DVD niche audience or mass-worldwide cinema release? Take a look at similar movies or genres on IMDB or something and see how well they fared... did they attract stars to their project? How did they market themselves? Was it picked up by a large studio or a small distribution company? At this stage, you're trying to figure out a GUESS at where your intended audience will be.

GETTING DISTRIBUTED/FESTIVALS
2) Now that you know your audience, the next question is "How do I get this movie TO the audience?". Pending on your previous research, will you approach a sales agent to find a distributor? Is your movie more suited for the "film festival" circuit? Could you approach a small distributor yourself, or will you have to self-distribute?

BUDGETING
3) Now that you know your intended distribution strategy, you can start figuring out your budget... if you plan on selling to a major distributor, you might need a "star" that appeals to them. If you're going the festival route, you'll want to find out what festivals best suit your story (and how much the entry/travel fees will be).... if you're going to self-distribute (because of a smaller niche audience potential), then you're going to have to figure out how to make a lower budget.

POST PRODUCTION
4) Now that you know who your audience is and how to get there and how much it will cost to get there, how do you get that money to turn out a product? Well, continuing our backwards trek, you need to EDIT the movie... how? Do you need to rent a suite? Can you do it on a computer?

PRODUCTION
3) Now that you know what your post production workflow, you have to figure out how to shoot the sucker. If you can't afford film in your budget, and don't have the computer power for HD, you have to shoot SD, which means you have to figure out the advantages and disadvantages therein and work the best you can out of the format. Also, how will you get actors? Crew? Food for the cast and crew? Equipment? Figure out what stuff you need to physically make your movie.

PRE-PRODUCTION/WRITING
4) Now that you know exactly HOW you're going to do this, that's when you write the script. Write it to the advantage of your chosen formats and budgets- find creative ways to do the interesting things you originally came up with within the parameters of the resources you have figured out are available to you.

CONCEPTUALIZING
5) Now that you've got your script written, go over the whole plan and make sure everything still matches up, and then film the sucker! All you have to do from this point is trace the dots back to where you started, which is much easier than blindly shooting and hoping for Kevin Costner and James Earl Jones to just fall into your lap, like you're some sort of A-list-attracting magnetic mall-Santa.


I'm probably missing a few beats, and probably much more confusing and obtuse than Clive, but hopefully that satisfies some of your lusty knowledge seeking. The main point is, start at the end of the process... by knowing the path, you write what you can shoot, edit what you have shot, sell what movie you have to those who have been expecting to hear from you, and in the end, you'll probably be better off than someone who just wrote an Shakespeare-007 movie while drunk on Jack Daniels and shot the most lovable piece of garbage that you've never seen.

 

[ad2478]

VPTurner please dont try to create confusions...when i was typing i pressed caps lock just because i wanted to write in big letters. see the confusion writing makes.i never had any intentions to yell at some one. neither i can yel my seniors until they are putting elegations like this the way you did.were you sitting with me when i tyoped all this?did you know am i angry or something like that.now this time i am really loosing my temper when you are trying to put an elegation on me.i told you we live in different cultures and different societies...may be in your are typing in caps lock is condered to be yelling but not inmine.you will never see my posts similar.go and check out all my posts.some will be in small letters and some will be in caps lock even i used different colours when i started .like blue etc but some one told me it hurts his eyes so i started writing in black only

 

[ad2478]

and i never knew that typing in caps lock mean yelling in internet speak


this is the first time i am listening anything like that

AND

indietalk

OK SIR .....AS YOU SAY NEXT TIME I WILL POST COMPLETELY NEW POSTS

 

[ad2478]

Spatula

THNAKS A LOT FRIEND LOOKS LIKE CLIVE IS STILL ANGRY. I THINK I WILL HAVE TO SEND SOME RED FLOWERS TO HIM AND MAY BE I WILL HAVE TO ASK HIM FOR DINNER TONIGHT TOO ?

HEY CLIVE I AM SORRY ONCE AGAIN

 

[VPTurner]

VPTurner please dont try to create confusions...when i was typing i pressed caps lock just because i wanted to write in big letters. see the confusion writing makes.i never had any intentions to yell at some one. neither i can yel my seniors until they are putting elegations like this the way you did.were you sitting with me when i tyoped all this?did you know am i angry or something like that.now this time i am really loosing my temper when you are trying to put an elegation on me.i told you we live in different cultures and different societies...may be in your are typing in caps lock is condered to be yelling but not inmine.you will never see my posts similar.go and check out all my posts.some will be in small letters and some will be in caps lock even i used different colours when i started .like blue etc but some one told me it hurts his eyes so i started writing in black only

LEARN IT! IT IS CONSIDERED RUDE! http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ia_nq_basics.htm#emotion

I understand the difference in cultures. This is why Netiquette exists. Just like mathematics, it is a universal language.

I am not creating confusions. I am trying to *help* you understand why you are alienating people. And you're about to alienate me, too.

 

[ad2478]

Spatula


i read your info and it is great. Can you tell me few thing please?

as you said

Take a look at similar movies or genres on IMDB or something and see how well they fared... did they attract stars to their project? How did they market themselves?

well how can we take out info that how people did marketing of their movies? i mean is there any website which tells about movies and their marketing strategy? or will i (we the new comers) will have to judge it by seeing posters ? and targeted market?

secondly as you said

Was it picked up by a large studio or a small distribution company?

can you explain this? i mean differnetiaitng between a studio and distibutor is easy but how can we know that that specific company is a big distributor or a small one (i am not talking about studios because i think they play a little different role) ?

may be i am unable to explain you my question.if it is so then forgive me for that. My only concern was that will every company tell it is big or small?no then how i while just using internet know that yes it is a big or small distribution company


other then that your info was really good.

 

[ad2478]

well friend tell me one thing is that really matter that typed in caps lock is a symbol of angerness? i love red colour the most so if i post anything in red will it mean i am dangerous?
i think at-least filmmakers should not talk like software engineers or IT experts, that Caps lock mean this and no Caps lock means this. I feel your comment was useless here. If you have clearly read my post i was sorry from CLIVE for being an idiot. So do you think a person who is feeling sorry for a mistake will yell some one?

LAST THING WHICH I WANT TO SAY I AM ALSWAYS HONEST IN MY FEELING AND IF SOME ONE TAKES MY FEELINGS IN A WRONG WAY THAT IS SOMETHING I CANNOT BARE.I AM A SIMPLE GUY WITH NO ATITUTDE AND ANY ANGER, SO TRY TO BELIEVE IT THAT I AM ALWAYS POSITIVE IN MY FEELING. I NEVER EVER LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING BAD TO MY TEACHERS


as being a MUSLIM we believe that TEACHERS ARE SPIRITUAL PARENTS

so i respect you all and love you all.

and i just want you not to miss understand me . It hurts my feelings that some one is taking me wrong without any reason

 

[VPTurner]

http://www.albion.com/netiquette/rule4.html

You are not the center of cyberspace

Presumably, this reminder will be superfluous to most readers. But I include it anyway, because when you're working hard on a project and deeply involved in it, it's easy to forget that other people have concerns other than yours. So don't expect instant responses to all your questions, and don't assume that all readers will agree with -- or care about -- your passionate arguments.

And posting in red just makes it difficult to read and can be hard on the eyes and is, thus, equally annoying.

So, as a Spiritual Parent, please heed these words and your life here will be much easier.

 

[ad2478]

IS it better now i mean black colour ? secondly i just wanted to say please dont take my CAPS LOCK yelling......when i never mean like yelling then you being seniors should also try to understand the feeling of me.
how does it feel to be taken wrong when you really respect someone?

secondly i there was not even space for any issue like of CAPS LOCK....