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Is this a plausible idea?

I'm working a story of an actor who has multiple personalities within him - all of the personalities consisting of former, horrifying and violent television and film characters he has portrayed in his career and I want it to be where he was programmed to have these personalities of his former TV/film characters under MK Ultra mind control but I wanted to know if that was plausible or not. I mean, can someone be programmed like that under MK Ultra mind control?
 
I don't know what is MK Ultra mind control (some kind of experiment?), but it sounds like a good character, as long as there are not too many characters within him. I would suggest no more than 3, and that in addition to the TV/film characters they represent, each of them also represents one of the 3 aspects of human behavior: Parent, Grownup and Child.
 
Some people (Roseanne Barr) believe that MK Ultra is a real thing and
a real threat. If you are asking about the actual, factual science of MK
Ultra (can it actually factually be used in the way you propose) you'll
need to ask people who understand this - in the CIA or on conspiracy
forums.

If you're asking can it make a compelling story then I'd say it can.
I mean, can someone be programmed like that under MK Ultra mind control?
So what is it? Are you asking about the science or its use in a story?
 
Extremely long story short, no, Mk ultra was a programme run supposedly by the US Military during
the 60s to try to create a fully controllable soldier. This was not a pleasant thing though, the theory goes that it involved putting people under all sorts of mind contorting conditions including full deprivation chambers while under the influence of strong substances such as LSD. If that is true, then that is no joke. They would have been using people susceptible to such things and effectively broken their minds. Theorists conclude from this that instead of having functioning soldiers you would have been left with fractured human beings with the so called lucky ones suffering post traumatic stress for the rest of their lives with the not so lucky ending up in institutes or dead from suicide.

So could it make workable drones....the theory says no.
Is it something you would write as a comedy piece...again I would say no. It was effectively human torture both physical and psychological. Hardly a rip snorting laugh a minute joke fest.

However there was another thing done back around the same time that was believed to be either satanist, or for mind control. It was called 'back masking' where effectively if you took certain songs and played them backward then they would say something else, often satanic style messages, and the theory on those was that these messages would be unconsciously absorbed by the listener and acted upon. Now that is kind of funny because most people now days realise that it was almost like a bad joke because it didn't actually have any affect on anyone (including John F Kennedy's assassin, which is another conspiracy theory and another story for another time) but heres the thing...what if your character is the only man alive to ever be controlled by backmasking...the joke there being that it only works on him because he is so stupid as to believe that it will, and feels completely powerless against it. Now that could be safely used in humour, and would actually add to the silliness of it. You could even end with someone finally showing him that backmasking is bullshit...

Hope this helps.

I will now return to the dark web (jokes) and the centre of the onion where all the secrets are kept (also a joke)...
 
I wanted to know if that was plausible or not. I mean, can someone be programmed like that under MK Ultra mind control?

Sure. Why not? It's your movie. ;)

Have you seen any Derren Brown? That guy will make you believe anything is possible, is only for a half hour or so. There was one episode where he supposedly brainwashed a guy into attempting to assassinate Stephen Fry. In another episode he made a guy think an actual zombie apocalypse had occurred. Check him out on youtube.

And what about that guy who tried to kill the Malaysian Prime Minister...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrdS8mYtEh4

If you sell the concept and make the world believable audiences will buy it.
 
I don't know what is MK Ultra mind control (some kind of experiment?), but it sounds like a good character, as long as there are not too many characters within him. I would suggest no more than 3, and that in addition to the TV/film characters they represent, each of them also represents one of the 3 aspects of human behavior: Parent, Grownup and Child.

In my opinion 2 are enough. And before that just try to learn out why films have not widely used such pop ideas about alter-egos, multiple personalities, mind problems, etc. There is some myth about mind deseases that shizos are generally geniuses, or they are talented, etc - well, they have treasure and mystery and weakness - well, very good for screenplay - so why not used widely? Public myth... But not used. Why? What do you think? In my opinion because it is itself is not very smart thing and it is not recognizable by people. When I see such - for me they are like stories about left ear against right, or hands against legs. One personality against another. My left part of brain against right. Why is it interesting? If you cannot offer new and interesting conflict among multiple personalities but just use them as "idea" - maybe better use one mind-healthy person with memories?
 
Extremely long story short, no, Mk ultra was a programme run supposedly by the US Military during the 60s to try to create a fully controllable soldier. This was not a pleasant thing though, the theory goes that it involved putting people under all sorts of mind contorting conditions including full deprivation chambers while under the influence of strong substances such as LSD. If that is true, then that is no joke. They would have been using people susceptible to such things and effectively broken their minds. ...
Uh, unfortunately truth is sadder than fiction. The American government has released classified documents that show an ugly, hidden side. However, how you combined events is erroneous.

Project Paperclip was a secret project that brought Nazi scientists, doctors and engineers into the US after WWII to prevent them from being used by our then enemy the USSR. Many of these scientists and doctors were engaged by the US military to assist with projects.

One project was MK Ultra that was actually run in a Canadian mental institution. The patients would have taped messages played over a helmet with speakers for prolonged periods of time. Often they were injected with various drugs. We know this now because the US government was actually taken to court and had to pay a settlement to one of the women used against her will. This was a CIA project. Since then, numerous documents have been declassified.

And yes, the use of LSD and amphetamines by the US military is also documented in various film footage and declassified papers. The revelations by Snowden on the NSA's actions are only a recent example of how clandestine groups can engage in destructive behaviors if unchecked.

Just because things sound implausible doesn't make them false. There are many mind control techniques that sound implausible but are quite effective. As a clinically trained hypnotherapist, it is possible to use waking hypnosis on 75% of the population. And if you can manipulate environmental conditions, it's possible to stack the odds of your desired outcome highly in your favor. Hypnosis and mind control are not what most people think with trances and blind obedience. Simple high speed, flashing lights have been shown to incapacitate people. The military has been developing this as a non-lethal weapon. Another invention from the 1960s is the neurophone ( US Patent # 3,647,970 dated 7 Mar 1972). Microwaves have been used to beam encoded messages in stores to stop shoplifting using a patented technology. Popular media and advertisements use influence strategies all the time. It's good business.

Now to be clear, I'm not alleging as Roseanne Barr that Hollywood is a cover using MK Ultra techniques. The special relationship the government has with Hollywood is a unique one. The government has used many studios to create compelling propaganda to support war efforts and pro-American sentiments. Few people realize the modern American PR and advertising largely developed from the work of Edward Bernays, Freud's nephew who utilized several "herd instinct" theories co-mingled with Freud's psychosexual theories. It's no coincidence that marketing wants you to be a part of the herd or stand out and uses sexual innuendo to drive it home. The question becomes when does 'influence' and 'persuasion' cross the line?

The techniques used for 'brainwashing' used in cults are used in the military as well as religion and business environments. Anyone who has served in the military has undergone the same process--isolated from past connections until induction is completed, forced to be dependent on an authority, forced to use a unique jargon, use of physical exhaustion by prolonged physical exercise and sleep deprivation, having unique gestures/mottoes, black-and-white thinking, and the instilled sense of uniqueness. These are hallmarks of a cult. But it can be said to be true of societies in general, which is why we speak of culture, how we were raised.

I've taken the time to put in links because I think many people think this is all make believe when sadly it is not. It is a dark side of human nature.

@ KidFilmMaker: The film "Manchurian Candidate" looks at instilled, sleeper personalities. "Three Faces of Eve", "Sybil" are more psychological portrayals. I don't think it's a bad idea but Dissociative Identity Disorder (multiple personalities) IS NOT schizophrenia so be very careful to do research and not just bandy about terms. Typically the personalities are distinctive and serve protective functions. For them all to be violent would be unusual in real life. It might be climactic to learn that he was programmed. It seems unlikely though unless his acting roles where choreographed as part of his training. It could be interesting but would take some major work to sell the idea to the audience. Still, it's worth a go.
 
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In my opinion 2 are enough. And before that just try to learn out why films have not widely used such pop ideas about alter-egos, multiple personalities, mind problems, etc. There is some myth about mind deseases that shizos are generally geniuses, or they are talented, etc - well, they have treasure and mystery and weakness - well, very good for screenplay - so why not used widely? Public myth... But not used. Why? What do you think? In my opinion because it is itself is not very smart thing and it is not recognizable by people. When I see such - for me they are like stories about left ear against right, or hands against legs. One personality against another. My left part of brain against right. Why is it interesting? If you cannot offer new and interesting conflict among multiple personalities but just use them as "idea" - maybe better use one mind-healthy person with memories?

I disagree with you. Character with multiple personalities ARE used in movies. Maybe not every 2nd movie you see, but yes, used. Some times it is interesting, some times it isn't. It doesn't have to be about mind diseases or shizos. Maybe a division in 2 personalities is not a healthy thing, but those 2 personalities can be very healthy by themselves. And nobody said that mind diseased people are geniuses or extremely talented.
 
OP, I'm a huge stickler for realism so as a viewer, this would not sit well with me. I'm not a scholar on MK Ultra, but I'm familiar enough with it to know that back in those days and even today, there is no way you could do something that sophisticated to the human mind. That's why I never liked the Manchurian Candidate because the scientific reasons for how it was possible to control someone's mind was far too vague for me to accept.

Not that your idea is bad. It actually sound very appealing, but it also sounds like something that could easily be corny and non-realistic. You may want to consider changing it to a future setting, like 2040 or 50 and doing a little research on how this could feasibly work. Saying that the actor was a victim of a CIA program in the 60's isn't strong enough to suspend my belief in the film. We know far too much about the human mind today than we did in the 60's so there's a lot of open source material that can be utilized to better explain the mind-control process.

Best of luck man!
 
Uh, unfortunately truth is sadder than fiction. The American government has released classified documents that show an ugly, hidden side. However, how you combined events is erroneous.

Project Paperclip was a secret project that brought Nazi scientists, doctors and engineers into the US after WWII to prevent them from being used by our then enemy the USSR. Many of these scientists and doctors were engaged by the US military to assist with projects.

......

I didn't say it was fiction...I said the theory goes that...

I have seen some of those same released documents that you speak of. I simply said theory because anyone pushing could say that those documents are photoshopped, ie I have not seen the 'original physical documents' I have only seen the reports on links online and in downloads accompanying docos...so anyone then asking for evidence could comfortably call me an idiot if I say it is factual.

I thought paperclip was part of bringing scientists over for the rocket and jet propulsion programme which became NASA?

And yes there are various forms of mind control...sound frequency being one. See 'Silent Sound'
If you google that into google scholar you will actually find talks and research backing that one up too.

Not mentioned because it doesn't fall within the time frame of the posters story, being mind control from way back when...

Hypnotherapy on waking is not something I have looked into so I am unsure on that and will defer to your knowledge on it.


I found it interesting that you made the link between military, cults, advertising, etc etc etc...many people don't see the link of the common controllers used. Very interesting read. thank you :)
 
I found it interesting that you made the link between military, cults, advertising, etc etc etc...many people don't see the link of the common controllers used. Very interesting read. thank you :)
I drew elements from other replies but tried to save space by not quoting everyone. All communication is persuasion. Neurolinguistic programming (NLP) is a powerful tool when used by a skilled practitioner. As Doghouse mentioned, Derren Brown is adept at how he uses the techniques. But I submit social influence doesn't require specialist techniques and are used all the time. Simple Pavlovian conditioning and operant conditioning work well. Reward behavior you want and punish/ignore behavior you wish to remove. Even in the 60s and 70s, there was debate about what was possible and constituted "mind control". What the classic studies by Milgram showed, was that ordinary people could do bad things if they could attribute it to someone else. And Zimbardo showed that people acting in roles take them on as their identities often to the extreme. The 'self serving bias' is often a gateway into eliciting behaviors--"That may happen to others but not me. They have to be faking it, since I'd never do that." A skilled practitioner can get around obstacles, especially with a very receptive target. And a person who has been sleep deprived, physically and verbally abused for a prolonged period, isolated becomes very open to suggestion.

Could an actor be programmed to be a killer through various roles? Not in an ordinary sense. But if a director is yelling and demanding more realism, the actor will try to deliver it. Consider Kubrick that did endless takes until he got the right look without giving much feedback. The actor is exhausted, unsure, open to the director hoping for guidance and then suddenly yelled at. Could that induce a mild dissociative (hypnotic) state, yes. Now add in drugs and subliminal programming in the actor's isolated trailer, it becomes slightly more plausible. Though, I think this should be more of a reveal later and not immediately known to the protagonist or the audience. I'm not 100% sold but I think it could be done.

Not mentioned because it doesn't fall within the time frame of the posters story, being mind control from way back when...
So you're presuming MK Ultra stopped. Good. Yes, it's stopped. :evil: The techniques can be used at any time, and perhaps even perfected. I don't think this story has to happen in the 60s. It's as possible today as it was then. Perhaps more so since we have a more refined understanding of the brain. It's worth checking out the Derren Brown clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC9J6O6soHA
 
So you're presuming MK Ultra stopped. Good. Yes, it's stopped. :evil: The techniques can be used at any time, and perhaps even perfected. I don't think this story has to happen in the 60s. It's as possible today as it was then. Perhaps more so since we have a more refined understanding of the brain. It's worth checking out the Derren Brown clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC9J6O6soHA

If MK Ultra had not stopped, then they could not be releasing information about MK ultra documents, so yes it is a safe bet to say that particular program stopped. Which is not to say they didn't step it up into one or more new programs, but the MK Ultra program itself will not be continuing under that name.

I did watch most of Darren Browns stuff with interest as it aired on tv here. He is a skilled practicioner for sure and probably has done consultation work for various companies and operations perhaps also.

Clever stuff.
 
I'm working a story of an actor who has multiple personalities within him - all of the personalities consisting of former, horrifying and violent television and film characters he has portrayed in his career and I want it to be where he was programmed to have these personalities of his former TV/film characters under MK Ultra mind control but I wanted to know if that was plausible or not. I mean, can someone be programmed like that under MK Ultra mind control?

sure just make a genius neurosurgeon the one behind it. you can explain it away with genius because people will accept it's POSSIBLE for someone to exist that is smart enough to figure this stuff out
 
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