Is the Sony Z7U worth the money?

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brokeandbroken

I'm new, I searched through some posts, seems like most users here are like me, or not far from my position... which is just figuring out how to put something together on a small scale... others seem to have some measure of victory... and others seem to have a strong knowledgebase... So I think it's a great forum, bringing together people at different stages, but unfortunately I don't think I'll be contributing anything useful anytime soon. I'm going to be asking broad questions like this for a little bit.

So, is the Z7u worth the money?
Please respond only if you've used this camera (ie, on a project, not just once or twice in a showroom).

And by "worth" I mean, is this just a consumer product to fleece dreamers? Or is this something that can actually deliver professional quality picture, albeit to scale? I know it's not a F65...

On my side, I've only operated simple consumer camcorders, ie: the family-events documenting device. What I'm looking to accomplish is a scalable production model. So I don't want to jump in the low-end market, and find myself wanting for better equipment shortly afterward; and I don't want to jump in the high-end and burn a hole in my wallet when something cheaper will provide the general par-for-the-course functionality.

The production I'm interested in--
In the early phase, I want to shoot little bits, a la "viral video"-type, cheap content to get a feel for the equipment and quality control. I think there will be a little lag-phase to learn... but when I've grasped the mechanics, I'd like to shoot little shorts... and when I graduate from that, I'd like to shoot a small budget feature.

So as I mentioned, I'm looking for a scalable model... I don't want low-end equipment, and then ditch it all to shoot a feature... and find myself wanting for better equipment. Mainly I'm interested in this camera b/c of the interchangeable lens. My feel from what I've read is that this CAN provide a cinematic quality, maybe not 4k, put it can put on airs. I know this post is long for a simple question, I just wanted to filter the responses to people who've used it, and to give a b.g. of what and why I'm looking. Thanks ahead, let me know if I need to provide other info that will help answer... and I'll be asking more Qs like this... sorry, just until I hit a threshold of understanding so that I can start thinking for myself, and then I'll start asking more taxing questions.
 
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We've shot with the Z1U, Z5U and Z7U.

These are "prosumer" cameras. They have professional functionality for many purposes. They are used for broadcast of cable shows, almost exclusively reality shows.

Since the release of that model camera, the style d'jour for filmmakers is SHALLOW DEPTH OF FIELD, the kind that you get from DSLR's or t he large sensor cameras.

The Z7U is great for videography, not so much for 'filmmaking', in terms of narrative storytelling.
 
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Hmm... Deep down inside, the answer I was hoping to hear was, "It's a fantastic camera, I don't know why it only cost 5k, Woody Allen uses it." But yeah, I'm a realist and was expecting there'd be compromises with this camera. What you said about the reality shows and videography, that's half of what I do want in functionality, so I felt safe there... but for a feature, and narrative shorts... I definitely don't want to shoehorn a camera to shoot something it isn't capable of-- ideally.

So the rest of this is me saying, "but this, this, and this... are the reasons I've picked this camera"... But I'm not disregarding what you said, I know you've used it, and that gives weight to what you said, and I'm grateful for the response. I guess what I'm looking for is a devil's advocate to flesh out just how lacking this camera is, and specifically big problems I might run into (like what you said about shallow DOF). I'm almost ready to purchase this camera, and I'm prepping myself for buyer's remorse... b/c really, like everyone, this choice is about the budget.

The budget.
As a product, it feels like Sony invested in this platform-- the accessories, the widgets that are available for this camera... it makes cheap production feasible for me. I feel comfortable knowing that if I need something, I won't have to climb a mountain to get it b/c it's commercialized.... things will be available if I need them, at a market price. All the positives that I will say, eventually tie in back to this, the budget.

The negatives.
I asked a broad question, and now I know what I'm really asking... what are the performance negatives of this camera? If there are other issues you dislike about it (like DOF issues), or if other people have negative experiences, please share.

As for the depth of field.
I read somewhere that the difficulty in achieving it is due to the small sensors... but I've also seen adapters like the letus, that (I guess) can help? Will it be impossible to achieve shallow DOF, even with an adapter, pulling the camera back, and zooming in? Or is the DOF just not impacted enough by these actions? DOF is obviously an important artistic feature, and it's a tool I want... but man, oh, man... the budget...

Somewhere in this production machine (or everywhere), I know my equipment will not be spec'ed to produce technically awesome picture, sound, etc... I'm going into this already making the mental concessions... what I'm relying on is the strength of the content.... so that I can earn a return, and then upscale, so I can eventually get authentic pro equipment somewhere down the line. So please know that I appreciate your responses, but also that I'm looking at this camera in the context of a budget. Any other negatives besides the shallow DOF (and if it can be remedied)?
 
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I own one. I’ve used it for BTS and as a “B” camera for reality TV.
It’s a fine camera. I see no reason it can’t be used for a narrative
shorts or even a feature. It’s a older, somewhat outdated camera
that uses tape. Not an issue with the final product people will see
but affects the production/post pipeline.

There really aren’t any performance negatives. I am not as obsessed
over shallow DOF as most (even with features) and since half of
what you want it for is “videography” then it’s a terrific camera for
that.
 
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Thanks Sonnyboo and Directorik for your responses.

Directorik, that gives me some peace of mind. Things like shallow DOF, camera movements, etc... I think all those techniques are awesome, and mean you know the craft, and most importantly they add dimension to the content... but it's not content. People start using them just to use them w/or w/out context... and it's totally besides the point... it just becomes mechanical. I def want the capability to use them, as much as possible within a budget, but to use them in the context of the content, artistically... but still, I'd have to have the capability first.

And I'm not knocking on videography, if that's what anyone does; but it's not what I ultimately want to do. I just think it'll be a good battleground to learn the camera's ins-and-outs... which for me, is about half of what I need to do.

Any other experiences with this camera? Good or bad, but especially bad ones? I'm probably going to commit to this purchase within 2 months, hopefully I'll catch holiday discounts by then. Thanks for your help.
 
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Shoots 1080i to miniDV tape (HDV is not the same as what we consider HD)

Knowing my luck, the 7ZU would be like all other Sony's I've used, and not be recognized by my PC's firewire connection. (Always have to import tapes using a Canon camera)

Those are the two big reasons why I'd not consider the Sony 7ZU. They've just been a pita to work with before.

Why not rent one for the weekend and play with it, before springing 5K on a tape-based camera that uses an old codec?

If you're looking for a "film" camera in that high of a pricepoint, maybe something like the Canon C100 series (or better) would be more accessible? It shoots to memory cards, can throughput uncompressed HDMI, interchangeable lenses, and a host of other features. It's still only 1080p, though. That's only if you must spend that kind of bux. I wouldn't.

I don't want low-end equipment, and then ditch it all to shoot a feature... and find myself wanting for better equipment.
Click to expand...

You're never going to have the "best" equipment. Fwiw, for about half your 5K-ish budget, you could get a Black Magic Cinema camera and the start of some basic sound gear. Decide on a few suitable lenses and nab a decent mic, you're in business for shorts at least. Still need a few people for crew & assistance, but one thing at at time I reckon. :)

.
 
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brokeandbroken said:
And I'm not knocking on videography, if that's what anyone does; but it's not what I ultimately want to do. I just think it'll be a good battleground to learn the camera's ins-and-outs... which for me, is about half of what I need to do.
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I got that. My use of quotes around videography gave the wrong impression.
I, too, used that camera for videography (different from narrative) and it's
great for that.

Zen's suggestion is excellent - rent one for one project. See if it meets your
needs. I'm sure you can find a used one - it's an old camera. Frankly in that
price range I would (and did) buy the JVC GY-HM650. That's the one I use
all the time now - even used it on Amazing Race.
 
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Hey Zensteve, thanks for the input. So, I've done a lot of reading... but there's an inordinate amount of reading out there... and every day I realize how green I am to this, sometimes the next article I pick up is entirely new info (but that's happening less frequently now). So please tell me if there are a bunch of holes in what I'm saying.

As for the tape recording.
There's Sony's MRC1 recorder that allows dual recording to CF and tape simultaneously. I thought that was a nice function, to have the backup on tape without more time expenditure. (unless there's some quality issue with recording to CF)

I don't really mind the interlaced, or progressive... of course I wish I could have both and 200fps...

Renting is just not an affordable option for me.
I come from writing, so the camera and hardware world is new to me. I will need to live and breath camera and equipment, the way you live and breath a new language to learn it. If I think about testing something at 1AM, then that's what I'm going to do immediately. I don't want to be limited by time. Plus, I figure, if I can learn this equipment inside out, it'll be a strong platform to learn other cameras, or just the industry in general.

The Z7 also has interchangeable lens, but the only other one Sony offers is the W/A zoom, which is another $2k. I did budget for that, though. So the camera, stock lens(28-380?), and the W/A zoom (20-200?), will set me back about $7k. How un/wise this is, i don't know, but I feel like this will just be one of those decisions that will move me forward either way... b/c the alternative is to spend more time deciding about deciding... and I definitely appreciate your Cannon camera suggestion, but I didn't want to ask about other camera suggestions b/c there are just SOO many possibilities and combinations of equipment... I would have to learn them all. Where as the Z7, I've done the budgeting, some solid reading, I know in which ways it's competent (after all, they advertise that part)... it's the incompetent part I'm hoping to hedge, which I imagine Sony likes to hide. As a market, I know that this camera at this price won't be markedly different from other brands... like anything else, they're all selling the exact same things, just different brands and suppliers... the physics doesn't change (as long as they have quality control manufacturing, etc).

But if you more-experienced guys know that this is definitely a DUMB mistake, (Z7 + W/A zoom = $7k) that's advice I'll take... just b/c I'm so risk averse, and there's that b.g. info that you guys have, which I lack. As far as the info I've collected, it suggests this grouping isn't really risky or unrisky... so far it just seems like functional equipment. But tell me otherwise, and I'll listen.

The only other camera I really considered was the NEX FS700... for all of its fantastic features. That's one where I'm confident I won't have buyers' remorse... at least not at this small scale. But that damn budget...

And as for SOUND...
Haha.. I'm not even budgeting for it. It's a total waste. I was TOTALLY surprised to see the market gap for sound equipment. For cameras, there's something for everyone at all tiers-- and THEN some-- overstaturated. For sound, the options I saw were 1) student film junk, like textbooks you only use 1 semester or 2) quality equipment starting at ~3K. I've resigned to higher a sound person, IF I can get find someone who believes in content and is willing to work for points... which means, probably not going to happen, which means I'm probably going to have to sell personal items to pay for a daily rate.

Sorry, I'm running long on all this b/c it's all I'm thinking about.. and it's spilling out... but for sure, thanks for your suggestions.
 
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There are some nice features the JVC GY-HM650 has, PLUS your endorsement as a professional, but to my green perspective, I can't discern too much of a difference; which seems correlated in the slightly more expensive price. The main thing that caught my eye was that FANTASTIC lens! That alone seems to be a big part of the price difference. The progressive is nice, but the sensors are the same. I feel like it has more bells and whistles... but the engine is the same. If I had the cash, I wouldn't be shy about taking this over the Z7... but between the camera, lens, lights, etc... I feel like I'm already drowning in nickels and dimes, and I'm not sure dropping another grand on the camera will put my production value in a new tier. ie, where as the NEX FS700 has the super 35... Tell me if I'm off axis...
 
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Hey ZenSteve, sorry I kind of shrugged off your Canon C100 suggestion. I thought that was the product-line one tier down, the XF... But yeah, that C100 seems like a nice camera too... but still, to my green perspective, it has some nicer features than the Z7, like 1920.1080 is sexy, the Super35 sensor... which is a BIG deal for me... but the trade off... at $5,400, it doesn't come with a stock lens at BHphoto. The Z7 is definitely not a superior camera. I wish I could say what I wanted was a superior camera, but right now I have to ask for the camera that fits my scale. Sorry if this is frustrating, I know you guys are putting out suggestions from your knowledgebase, and I'm stubbornly clinging to this Z7... maybe the real problem is that I'm trying to find fit-all equipment that will cover a range from little shorts to a small feature. I'm going to browse through some cameras again, but if I stick with the Z7 it's not b/c your suggestions don't make sense... I'm not really sure any of these cameras give me an edge, the Z7 included, unless the difference is really salient.... ie the FS700... thanks again.
 
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brokeandbroken said:
and I'm stubbornly clinging to this Z7... maybe the real problem is that I'm trying to find fit-all equipment that will cover a range from little shorts to a small feature.
Click to expand...
What I know for certain is no matter what camera you choose
there will be a different - and possibly better - camera available,
there will be a different camera that someone likes and suggests,
there will even be people who vehemently dislike the camera YOU
like.

I also know that no matter what camera you choose of all the
ones mentioned so far you will like it and you will get good use
out of it.

You can use the Sony for shorts and even a feature. David Lynch
used an early version (PD170) to shoot the theatrically released
"Inland Empire". "Supersize Me" was shot on the earlier (and not
as good) version of the Z7. I don't, off the top of my head, know
features shot with the Z7 but that really doesn't matter. What YOU
do with that camera has nothing at all to do with what someone else
did or will do.

At some point you will have to just buy one. And I know from experience
that before you get it out of the box you will wonder if maybe a different
camera would have been a better choice. And I know from experience
that you will like and get good use out of the camera you choose.

Access to so much camera information really muddys the water. Each
difference is slight and doesn't really matter.
 
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rayw, I know the manufacturers are making a pretty penny fleecing dreamers, but to see projects get finished with prosumer equipment is pretty awesome. So tired, so very very tired of the hollywood gimmick-movies... even if they're commercially successful... no substance, vapid content... and meanwhile, real content gets passed up... for "marketability," aka "only make what everyone else is making"... aka safe-but-creative bankruptcy... so it's good to see individuality getting a breath of life (even if most indies are awful, but so are studio films). What are the studios going to do when prosumer content starts competing substantially for "their" market...

Directorik, that's huge... coming here with this sort of broad question... I suppose it's just butterflies, afraid of the buyers' remorse of dropping north of 10K on equipment I've never used... so that's a huge boost of confidence. I think my decision for the camera is probably going to settle on this, then (unless the FS700 comes down a bunch for the holidays-- wishful). Hope I don't have to hold my breath too long for a return, even if it's just Adsense for a while, but you've all been a big, big help, thanks a lot.
 
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The 7ZU is circled in red for me because of it's low light capabilities. I wish I had it for my previous feature as I would have had to haul around fewer lights. Something to think about if you're gonna guerrilla it.
 
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GuerillaAngel, that's definitely a plus. Anything that's going to save me a dime or more, I want it to show up bright and shiny on my radar, so thanks. Although I'm curious to see what happens at minimum lux. I'm always skeptical about the bookends of performance stats, b/c it always seems to be done (understandably) in optimal conditions. But I wonder if noise will eat into the signal at the min lux... you just gave me something to Google.
 
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broken, when I made my previous feature, I went for the camera with the best low light cap at the time. And yes, there was noise on some clips, but I added noise to other clips to get it to match then added a third element to unite all the clips in the entire scene. Low light sensitivty is the top spec on my list for cameras and the Sony model you speak of was at one time the best you could get.

Good luck.
 
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