I have *seen* F9/11 and here is what I think...
- Thread starter Zensteve
- Start date
indietalk said:
OK, Im sorry. But his comment about Bush being the problem of californians "Thats a first" got me going. I thought he was being hostile towards me.
Anyways i dont want this to be a private issue between him and I.
Im sorry if I offended anyone from Texas.
Also his response to me was very Gentleman Like. So Again im sorry. I just had a knee jerk reaction.
he told me that he always thought it was grey davis who was the fault. so I responded with this.
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Grey Davis made deals with Texas Oil tycoons, He is also up on investigations.
Im not a bad person and I have been to texas several times. Remember the Bushes are from New england and are *Carpet Baggers* as the old timers used to say.
I lived with my Aunt in Fredricksburg near houston and I also stay with friends in El Paso. Texas in itself is not much different then alot of California. I live near Stockton which is in central northern california and it looks the same as much of texas. BUt there are alot of idiots who live in texas with a real cowboy mentality and these White Collar Cowboys think its OK to goug Californians out of billions of Dollars. Which by the way the State of California is looking into Pressing a Gigantic Civil Suit against the Oil Industry to try and get the money back they ripped us off for.
Weather we get it back or not is another thing. I wish we kept this in the forum because Im gonna look like a shit disturber but i was only reacting in a knee jerk fasion.
But you talk about Texas Pride you should talk about American Pride. We the state of California were told by dozens of states that we dug our own hole while Texas Companies took advantage of the situation that they basically set up with Grey Davis.
Remember that the California is a Country in itself. It is the only state in the entire union that has just about every topography the the rest of the world provides which means we can grow grapes like French, We have mountains like Colorado, we have deserts like the middle east and we have ranchland like Texas and Oklahoma and we have the largest Agriculture of any state in the Union. We have the High Tech Industry and We have maybe the third largest (Next to Texas and maybe Oklahoma) cattle industry in the USA.
We need the oil the most. Not to run our cars or to improve out quality of life in the state of California but to be able to export products to people outside of California.
Texas lacks many of those resources. The Oil guys dont care.. they just wanted the money. and I bet anything that alot of Texans were laughing at Californians getting screwed when it was just a matter of time before the domino affect hit everyone else.
There is an old saying . If California Goes.. So does the rest!
You better pray that California never falls into the ocean because it will have a huge f***** impact on the rest of America.
Excuse the language. BTW.. I dont want this to be a private forum my friend. Im sorry if I insulted you.. Im sure i will again.. thats the fun of Debating. So Swing away
and im gonna post this in the thread as well so others can read.
indietalk said:
I didn't notice that before...it doesn't make me mad because it shows that King Goldfish is just being ignorant. King, you can't attack an entire state because you don't like a few people from there. Please. Considering how many corrupt things YOU just mentioned have been going on in YOUR own state, how can you act like Texas is some redneck reservoir? Texas is great and if you'd just think before you type, you might not be so hateful. I won't mention it again, just wanted to say that.
Going to try and steer this back towards the actual film F-9/11.
Politics, sex and money are sagely noted as the three topics best avoided in polite conversation... and with good reason. Most people have very passionate opinions about these things, and none are easily swayed from their views.
Of course, the subject(s) of this particular film make the politics-part hard.
I'll throw out some ideas...
1) With F-9/11 having a good crack at breaking the 100 Million mark, can we expect more documentaries (political or not) to be produced for mass consumption?
2) Should documentaries be "objective"? How do you really define "objective"? Is there a difference between presenting opinion backed with "facts", and an impartial "this is how it happened" backed with "facts"?
3) The movie clearly carries a "message" that many do not agree with. How about a few examples of films that do *not* carry a message of some kind? There must be some... and for the movies that *do* carry a message, how much weight should that message convey?
4) Did timing of the film's release help its success?
5) Did the facts as presented tell a cohesive story? Regardless of veracity, did it portray more than just a jumble of statistics and sentences?
6) Was Disney justified in originally telling Miramax to shelve the film?
7) Should people be allowed to offer up politically-biased films to the mass market? What if those films were paid for by PACs or lobbyists?
A few ideas, anyway... time to get back to film-related discussion... while dancing carefully around the rhetoric landmines 8)
Politics, sex and money are sagely noted as the three topics best avoided in polite conversation... and with good reason.
Most people have very passionate opinions about these things, and none are easily swayed from their views.Of course, the subject(s) of this particular film make the politics-part hard.
I'll throw out some ideas...
1) With F-9/11 having a good crack at breaking the 100 Million mark, can we expect more documentaries (political or not) to be produced for mass consumption?
2) Should documentaries be "objective"? How do you really define "objective"? Is there a difference between presenting opinion backed with "facts", and an impartial "this is how it happened" backed with "facts"?
3) The movie clearly carries a "message" that many do not agree with. How about a few examples of films that do *not* carry a message of some kind? There must be some... and for the movies that *do* carry a message, how much weight should that message convey?
4) Did timing of the film's release help its success?
5) Did the facts as presented tell a cohesive story? Regardless of veracity, did it portray more than just a jumble of statistics and sentences?
6) Was Disney justified in originally telling Miramax to shelve the film?
7) Should people be allowed to offer up politically-biased films to the mass market? What if those films were paid for by PACs or lobbyists?
A few ideas, anyway... time to get back to film-related discussion... while dancing carefully around the rhetoric landmines 8)
No.
...This isn't all that important, but I think that Texas has just as many different cultures/terrains/industries/etc. Everything but the entertainment on the level of Cali.
AND Texas "oficially" has the right to separate from the States if it wants to...just some factoids....back to whatever else y'all want to talk about...
...This isn't all that important, but I think that Texas has just as many different cultures/terrains/industries/etc. Everything but the entertainment on the level of Cali.
AND Texas "oficially" has the right to separate from the States if it wants to...just some factoids....back to whatever else y'all want to talk about...
I had to add this, somebody mentioned Bush's tax cuts and when the first ones came up, I got a check for $400. I thought, "nifty". Well, I file my taxes and get a return, then I get a nice letter from the IRS saying that I own them $280. I'm perplexed because I've never had a problem with my taxes (except when I first started freelancing and didn't know about those pesky quarterly taxes, but that's another story.) I called the IRS asked what's going on, and they say it's the $400 tax refund check. We want $280 back. I'm not kidding. What a scam? I felt used. Why didn't they just send me check for $120?
Sorry to digress.
I think we're going to see more political docs, but after election season they should drop. Here' are some titles:
"The Hunting of the President" about the right wing conspiracy to get Bill
"The Corporation" - about how the corporate model is socio-pathic
"Outfoxed" - a slam on how Fox news may not be fair or balanced
"Michael Moore Hates America" - a slam on MM
"The End of suburbia" - looks at what happens when we run out of oil
and many more...
The cool thing is now that the technology has dropped so dramatically in price that filmmakers with a cause can make a documentary fairly cheaply. I wonder if this will lead to a glut of docs just like the glut of no-budget zombie movies.
Scott
Sorry to digress.
I think we're going to see more political docs, but after election season they should drop. Here' are some titles:
"The Hunting of the President" about the right wing conspiracy to get Bill
"The Corporation" - about how the corporate model is socio-pathic
"Outfoxed" - a slam on how Fox news may not be fair or balanced
"Michael Moore Hates America" - a slam on MM
"The End of suburbia" - looks at what happens when we run out of oil
and many more...
The cool thing is now that the technology has dropped so dramatically in price that filmmakers with a cause can make a documentary fairly cheaply. I wonder if this will lead to a glut of docs just like the glut of no-budget zombie movies.
Scott
LOGAN L Productions said:
I want to end this.. But if you look closely at what i said I said his buddies in Texass. Really.. its just a state. I wasnt attacking the entire state.
So thats why I said i was sorry. And I lived in texas for a long time. The Majority of people there dont even have southern accents anymore.
Just take it with a grain of salt. We are supposed to be helping each other out in a time of need and it seems The State Governments Didnt wante to help out people of California which I felt was pretty messed up.
Again.. Knee Jerk Reaction on my part. it happens
Zensteve said:
Normally I would agree. But it was an open forum to start off with. I didnt feel it was right to apologize just to him;
This is why i didnt post his PM to me. Just my response to him.
BTW.. did you get to finally see the video?
scottspears said:
that is weird. Usually they wait till the end of the next Fiscal year.
400 dollars for what? I still havnt seen the "Cuts" i saw a tax advancment check which just meant out of my normal 3000 dollar return I got a 600 dollar check in like march then only 2400 dollars in june when my returns finally came in.
The only Real money I got from the IRS was the childs credit of 300 dollars each up to 2 kids.
Bush has to go.
King Goldfish said:Bush has to go.
YES HE DOES!!!
Right. I finally saw farenheit 9/11 last night - UK cinema lags behind a bit Seemed to me to be an incredibly onesided argument which I would want to see solid proof of before I believed any of it. However, I'm sure that there are traces of corruption in just about any government.
I'm quite interested to know why Mr Moore conveniently decided to leave out 'Great Britain' from the coalition for the Iraq war - hmmm maybe mr moore needs to re-read his factfile. Not sure - not really going to comment to much because my knowledge of Bush and his government stretches about as far as my right ear lobe...
Seemed to me to be an incredibly onesided argument which I would want to see solid proof of before I believed any of it. However, I'm sure that there are traces of corruption in just about any government.I'm quite interested to know why Mr Moore conveniently decided to leave out 'Great Britain' from the coalition for the Iraq war - hmmm maybe mr moore needs to re-read his factfile. Not sure - not really going to comment to much because my knowledge of Bush and his government stretches about as far as my right ear lobe...