cinematography How does an iphone get such deep focus?

H

harmonica44

Some people where I live are shooting their first short films on their iphones or blackberries, etc. I wonder how the phone gets such good deep focus. It even looks better than my Canon T2i, at it's deepest which seems to be f8.

All the characters in a master shot, are in focus, and their is no need to rack at all it looks like from the footage I have seen so far. Any way to do this with a DLSR are bigger video camera, or is an HD cell phone ideal for deep focus?

I've noticed that the phone is deep focus under much lower light as well, but if I were directing I would want enough light for deep focus, that will get rid a lot of the the noise of course.
 
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ItDonnedOnMe said:
I just don't get why if Apple can give us this in a crappy camera phone the big camera companies can't do it!?! I mean, c'mon Canon, Sony, Panasonic, get your acts together and give us what we want - affordable cameras that can achieve deep depth of field! Why should this be reserved for Hollywood? We've been stuck with this shallow depth of field for long enough, we shouldn't be forced to resort to shooting on a cellphone to get a proper cinematic look.
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EDIT:: BLARGHHHHHH! See this is already well covered above. Was commenting after reading a couple pages not realising there were more to come.
 
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CF.. Im starting to worry that ItDonnedOnMe is NOT being sarcastic? That would be a very bad thing.. lol

Either way though, it is INTERESTING that shallow DOF is somewhat of a fad that seems to be fading a bit. Selective focus doesn't require that EVERYTHING ELSE be a washed out bokehy smear.. just a bit fuzzy is all that is needed to "focus" attention on the subject.

Razor thin DOF is starting to look very "dated" to me..
 
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wheatgrinder said:
Razor thin DOF is starting to look very "dated" to me..
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Shallow DoF is just another tool in the DPs repertoire. One of the problems with so many things today is it seems some people get so stuck up on one tool and turn it into a gimmick, using it ad nauseum. Very amateur.

All these things, say something. And should be used when what they say emphasises what the film is trying to say. Everything always shaky or shallow DoF or constant orbiting or whatever does your film a huge disservice.

IDK, that's how I feel about these things at least.

CraigL
 
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Actually maybe I should go the shallow focus route. A DP stopped wanting to work with me, late last year cause he was put off, by the fact that I want to shoot the movie in deep focus.

Another DP just quit on me saying that I he's had enough of me wanting to shoot deep focus. He also said I don't have enough camera movement in the shots. I had camera movement in about 30% of the shots, but I guess that wasn't enough for him.

He said that shooting a movie, like an old movie with a still camera, and deep focus, is out. That way of movie shooting is dead, and if I try to make a movie of mine look like a style that is before the 20th century, than everyone is going to think I am a complete amateur filmmaker, so what's the point.

It has also been pointed out that deep focus requires great art direction, which is true. I wanted deep focus, cause I thought it would make for cool mastershots, so everyone can be in focus all the time, instead of me just doing what most other filmmakers are doing. But perhaps he's right, and I gotta accept the times for what they are in order for a DP to want to work with me.

I also cannot hide bad art direction on realistic locations, as oppose to sets.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Actually maybe I should go the shallow focus route. A DP stopped wanting to work with me, late last year cause he was put off, by the fact that I want to shoot the movie in deep focus.

Another DP just quit on me saying that I he's had enough of me wanting to shoot deep focus. He also said I don't have enough camera movement in the shots. I had camera movement in about 30% of the shots, but I guess that wasn't enough for him.

He said that shooting a movie, like an old movie with a still camera, and deep focus, is out. That way of movie shooting is dead, and if I try to make a movie of mine look like a style that is before the 20th century, than everyone is going to think I am a complete amateur filmmaker, so what's the point.

It has also been pointed out that deep focus requires great art direction, which is true. I wanted deep focus, cause I thought it would make for cool mastershots, so everyone can be in focus all the time, instead of me just doing what most other filmmakers are doing. But perhaps he's right, and I gotta accept the times for what they are in order for a DP to want to work with me.

I also cannot hide bad art direction on realistic locations, as oppose to sets.
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No offense but ...
 
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Well I think people are being paradoxical about it, since I need to work with pros in order to come off as professional. Plus I don't see how he is professional, since he is unwilling to follow the director, especially when so many directors want specific looks that don't follow the norm and no one quits on them because of that.

But I think I will do shallow focus. If DPs really need that in order to stand doing their jobs, then I will do it.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Actually maybe I should go the shallow focus route. A DP stopped wanting to work with me, late last year cause he was put off, by the fact that I want to shoot the movie in deep focus.

Another DP just quit on me saying that I he's had enough of me wanting to shoot deep focus. He also said I don't have enough camera movement in the shots. I had camera movement in about 30% of the shots, but I guess that wasn't enough for him.

He said that shooting a movie, like an old movie with a still camera, and deep focus, is out. That way of movie shooting is dead, and if I try to make a movie of mine look like a style that is before the 20th century, than everyone is going to think I am a complete amateur filmmaker, so what's the point.

It has also been pointed out that deep focus requires great art direction, which is true. I wanted deep focus, cause I thought it would make for cool mastershots, so everyone can be in focus all the time, instead of me just doing what most other filmmakers are doing. But perhaps he's right, and I gotta accept the times for what they are in order for a DP to want to work with me.

I also cannot hide bad art direction on realistic locations, as oppose to sets.
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There you are making things up again...
 
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If you are the director, just do what you feel that is the right choice for the movie. Of course, listen to your team, but the final decision is yours. That's why you are the director of the film.

But never forget a simple rule for we who are inexperienced: most times, what most people do is the best thing to do. Not because most people do, but because behind what most professionals do, there are always solid reasons. Try to discover this reasons, understand this and correctly implement this before change it.
 
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Nowadays everyone on a budget wants a DSLR precisely because they can achieve shallow DOF.
Now that you have a DSLR you want deep focus... deep focus has been available for years on all cheap cams with small sensors!

I think your problem is that you don't even know what you want.
 
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The reason people say to hire pros is because pros know what you don't. You don't hire a plumber and sit there with him and critique his choice of wrenches and grill him on every decision he makes while fixing your sink. You might go over the basics "I want this type of pipe" but then you let him do his job because he's better at it than you. If he's not better, then you wouldn't hire him.

My dad is a pilot, I've been up in the cockpit flying plenty and know more than the average guy about flying. I just flew on a commercial airline. On the way to my seat I didn't stop by the cockpit and tell the pilot what altitude to fly at or how fast. He's the pro. I paid him to fly me from point A-B, the details were up to him and I'm sure we were both happier for it.

If you want to micro-manage on set, either do it yourself or hire any kid off the street who wants to take orders. Their skill level will be unimportant because it will all hinge on you specifically telling him what to do.

If you want to make a professional product, hire professionals and show them the big picture (I want to shoot this script) and let them professionally decide the best route to do it.
 
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PaulGriffith said:
If you want to make a professional product, hire professionals and show them the big picture (I want to shoot this script) and let them professionally decide the best route to do it.
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Hold on a second here... I find myself in the curious position of defending harmonica44, but your analogies are silly.

It isn't about telling the pilot how to fly, it's like the pilot telling you that you really want to go to Toronto not Vancouver, or the plumber telling you that you really want to put the facet underneath of the toilet, not by the sink.

If you HIRE a DP to do a film, and you WANT that film to be deep focus, then THAT's their job. End of story. They can suggest (and should) anything they want, but if the vision is deep focus, then that's what they should deliver.

One definitely needs to listen to advice from people you work with, but it's not the job of the DP to TELL the director how the film should look, their job is to capture that look.

Anyway, I suspect there was more going on in the situation than a simple disagreement of DoF, but as far as just quitting because they didn't like the style, is remarkably unprofessional, IMHO.

CraigL
 
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@CraigL, I completely agree here. Part of it may be that what's being asked for is difficult, but that's part of the job... coming up with solutions to the difficult tasks. How do you get a smooth shot running up stairs that ends up circling the subject triumphantly at the top? You invent the Steadicam! You produce a solution! That's the job. Which is why I've advised knowing a bit about the others' jobs, so you can make recommendations when micro-budget hires or volunteers buck at the difficulty of a task.
 
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ShockingMind said:
NO offense Harmonica but judging by the numerous threads it seems that NOBODY wants to work with you, why do you think that is? Where do you think the problem lies?
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Well the first DP did not just quit over the shallow DOF, although he constantly kept wanting to change my mind. He quit because I am friend's with his ex (which is how I met him), and he decided he did want to have anything to do anyone who is friend's with his ex.

The second one now just seems to have quit over the shallow DOF and cause he says I don't have enough camera movement. But during simple dialogue set up situations, he wanted to dolly around people's heads, while zooming and all kinds of things that just came off as overdone to me, and would actually feel overdone, if shot that way.

Although maybe I am wrong, and ultra camera movement is professional these days, like he thinks.

gebo said:
Nowadays everyone on a budget wants a DSLR precisely because they can achieve shallow DOF.
Now that you have a DSLR you want deep focus... deep focus has been available for years on all cheap cams with small sensors!

I think your problem is that you don't even know what you want.
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I know what I want. I bought my DSLR for learning before, not for this particular project. This one I thought whichever DP I took on, would just use his own camera equipment, or the iphone of my fellow filmmaker, which he has been using.

It's been brought to my attention though on here, that deep DOF is a bad idea, because of crappy art direction. And most realistic locations, which I will be using, will probably be crappy since I don't have sets. So I think maybe a shallow DOF look is in order, since that will probably be risking to look cheap.
 
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