How do you get actors to do the 30 shoot schedule?

[harmonica44]

For a feature most filmmakers seem to get actors to go 30 days straight. That way of course, there hair is the same, they are all still available, etc. But most actors on a microbudget will not want to leave their day jobs for 30 days straight. My friends are making a feature and it's tough because seasons change. How do you get it to all take place in fall or summer for example, when actors are only available mostly on weekends?

If you devided 30 days to 1-2 days a week, summer can become winter. You can save all the outdoor shots for the first half of the shoot for example, but there is no guarantee you will be able to shoot in that order. So what's the trick?

 

[Zensteve]

what's the trick?

Scheduling, planning & casting the actors willing to commit the needed weekends... week after week.

For a feature most filmmakers seem to get actors to go 30 days straight.

I think you mean, filmmakers with a large budget hiring working pro actors...

 

[mad_hatter]

...most actors on a microbudget will not want to leave their day jobs for 30 days straight...

The only way my employer would let me take 30 straight days off work would be to hand my notice in!


Personally, I think the micro-budget world operates completely differently to the regular, "bigger-budget" world. I'd expect most micro-budget films to either, not require 30 shooting days, or not be so reliant on the seasons.

Either way, you'll need dedicated actors who will agree to work for the scheduled number of days, whenever they may be. Of course, a healthy pay slip helps actors agree to this and prevents them from bailing.

Not sure, but I think you might struggle to find actors that are available, or willing to even work 15 weekends straight. It's a big commitment, and seems to me to be even more demanding than shooting 30 days straight.

 

[harmonica44]

Exactly, how do yo guys make features though, without the seasons noticeably getting in the way, or having to recut the actor's hair just right, and make sure it matches? You say do it on the weekends, but there is not enough weekends in a season. I don't know about my friends project but for the script I want to make into a feature the year after next, I would probably need at least 30 days. I thought about shooting a lot of dialogue scenes in just a few takes, and not have as many shots. Some dialogue scenes I can do in two shots only, the whole scene.

But for fight/chase/horror sequences, those require a lot more shots and in my experience so far, one minute of fighting equals eight hours of shooting at least.

 

[Duckforceone]

until i can pay an actor, i will never do 30 day shoots.

For my upcoming feature, i am planning on 7-10 days of shooting. It's going to be during the summer where most people have the option to take 1-2 weeks of vacation

It's either going to be 2-3 weekends, or just one extended week to do it all....

as an indie film maker, i cannot afford to shoot as much and long as the proffessionals do... it's that simple...

so instead, plan on some long hard days, but few of them. don't wait 2 hours for lighting to become perfect.. shoot shoot shoot....

 

[jax_rox]

You schedule around work and other commitments.

Even working around your 'seasons' lmitation, you've still got 24 available days per season to shoot (3 months/12 weeks; 2 days/week) and if you're shooting summer to August, or Spring to Summer, shooting an extra week into the net season isn't going to be too different anyway.

Plus 8 hours to shoot one minute of screen time is, well...

You gotta make sacrifices somewhere. You either make the decision that this fight scene can take no longer than 3 hours to shoot, and it is choreographed one night during the week so that as soon as we hit set we can start shooting, or you make the decision that weather and seasons don't matter. Or you hire some lights and fake the seasons (I shot a short 3 weeks ago, one week out of Winter and made it look like the middle of a warm summer).

If you have the budget go ahead and take 8 hours to shoot one minute, but I can tell you if my Producer saw we'd only shot 1 minute of screen time in one whole day's worth of shooting, the sh*t would hit the fan, and the 1st AD would get.. well a very stern talking to.

A professional crew is quick, makes decisions and gets things done. I've done days where we've covered over 4 pages of script (simple setups, low shot count) and I've done days where we've struggled to cover 2 (complex setups, high shot count, battling light, battling weather etc. etc.).

A good 1st AD will adapt the schedule as you go along, but more importantly initially schedule knowing how long each setup is likely to take.

But then, if you're working with a professional crew, you probably don't have much issue working 30 days in a row (minus weekends of course) as most freelance crew would rather be working on something than nothing. If they've got no work lined up and your set is attractive enough, they will work on it - I do every now and then. I have to bail if a paid gig comes up but most unpaid/deferred indie features I've been on don't shoot for much more than 3-4 weeks anyway.
Especially if you have something about/on your set that will lure people to it. I've worked unpaid when it's been for people I admire, or because the production somehow gets their hands on a new camera that I haven't worked with before - I'd rather get to know a camera Focus Pulling for a couple weeks unpaid and learn its ins and outs that way than read the manual online, spend half a day at prep and then be expected to know it inside out when I get onto a paid gig with the camera. If I have no other work on - why not keep myself busy?

I've also seen actors on those shoots work consecutive weekdays without pay. Just depends on who you get.

 

[NickClapper]

For The Flight of the Flamingo, we scheduled two full weeks or shooting, with some pick-ups the next week.

Even though we definitely had a 'lead character' he was not in every scene (in fact there were quite a lot, almost half, that didn't involve him) so we didn't need him on-set every day and some days that he was on set he was only needed for half a day or so, so it wasn't impossible for him to get some work done too.

To be honest, most of the jobbing actors in London (or other places, I assume) would be willing to commit to 4 or 5 shoot days over the course of a two week period- mainly because it guarantees them a sizeable role in a feature film.

I had more problems clashing with rehearsals for other productions and actors going on holiday than I did for actors failing to get time off work.

 

[LasVegasIRA]

h44, it seems like you're still trying to do things like the pro's that have millions of dollars but on a shoestring budget. And while I applaud that idea and effort, you have to come to terms with the fact that you may have to divert from that line of thinking.

As far as suggestions on how to get around your particular issue, one thing to think about is rewriting your story to fit in with the changing seasons. Does it have to all take place within the timeframe you've written?

Another is to move scenes you had originally planned to do outdoors to indoors so the weather outside doesn't matter.

Yet another is to film you actors in close-up at one point (for things such as your chase scenes) and then film the other stuff 2nd Unit style with body doubles. That way you can use your friends instead of having to worry so much about the availability of your actors. Look up a behind the scenes of the truck chase in Raiders of the Lost Ark. That entire scene was shot with stunt doubles over the course of a week or two, then they brought in Harrison Ford to shoot close ups for a couple of days... Movie magic at its best!

 

[Steve_in_MD]

If you're efficient and your team is dedicated, I don't think you'll need 30 days for a feature. If you have everything meticulously planned and your cast and crew know what they're doing, a 10-hour day would probably net you somewhere between 5-8 minutes of screen time. For a 90 minute feature, that's about 11-16 days, or 6-8 weekends. That could be accomplished in one summer, for example.

Now, I've never shot a feature before, but I have filmed and edited a 7 minute short in 24 hours, so I would imagine you'll be fine if your film takes place entirely in one season.

 

[harmonica44]

I could set it over the course of the seasons but there is no guarantee we can shoot the scenes in order. Especially since some actors may be available for their scenes at a certain time more so, and others at a certain time. Most of it is indoors but some of the chases are outdoors. There are four main chase/fights and one short one.

Do you have any good tips on how to get one minute of a fight/chase done in less than 8 hours? That's at least how long it takes for me, unless I come up with a set up where multiple cameras can be used, and shot at angles where you wouldn't see them. But then my angles are compromised. I timed the fight scene I did and it was one minute for 8 hours shoot, over two days. 2 minutes in 16 hours. I've read though that that's typical for a big budget movie, when it comes to action scenes, but how does us shoestring budgeters shorten that by a lot, and still make it look right?

Or at least when the shots are edited together it comes to two minutes, perhaps it's just my editing...

 

[PaulGriffith]

I could set it over the course of the seasons but there is no guarantee we can shoot the scenes in order. Especially since some actors may be available for their scenes at a certain time more so, and others at a certain time. Most of it is indoors but some of the chases are outdoors. There are four main chase/fights and one short one.

Do you have any good tips on how to get one minute of a fight/chase done in less than 8 hours? That's at least how long it takes for me, unless I come up with a set up where multiple cameras can be used, and shot at angles where you wouldn't see them. But then my angles are compromised. I timed the fight scene I did and it was one minute for 8 hours shoot, over two days. 2 minutes in 16 hours.

Well, with practice and a good crew you will get faster, but action is a terrible genre for a microbudget feature. Action takes a lot of time and usually a lot of money to do right. That's why almost all microbudget features are comedies and dramas. If it's one location, only two or three good actors and a good script that is 98% talking you could theoretically shoot a feature in a few long days. If you really want to shoot action, raise the money for it and quit trying to cut EVERY corner and still expect a good product.

 

[harmonica44]

It's not really an action movie but more of a horror suspense thriller. But even those have fights and chases which can last a few minutes each. And they have just as many shots to get through as an action sequence. The more shots I have the more I can cut together in case actors miss their mark, or I miss mine as director. I can't do it all in a few long takes, since we are not trained enough. Plus creative editing will look better and help sell the product I think. What about the fights done in the house in The Last House on the Left remake? How long do you think it would take to shoot all those shots they had? Or say the last scene of United 93? Not an action movie, but they showed a long fight on a plane with several shots.

 

[mlesemann]

You do realize that the remake of Last House on the Left had a budget of $10 mil, right?

 

[harmonica44]

Yeah but my point is how do us no budgeters do horror and thriller movies, and do fights like that, all in one day? At the local film festivals, most of the movies shown were horror thrillers, so it's not impossible. For my first short a five minute dialogue scene took 6-7 hours to shoot, with 2 hours to set up prior. Although set up was done in less, we just gave ourselves 2 hours just in case.

I realize I should have done it with less shots, since I am on a budget, so with only a few shots, say 4, do you think I could cover five minutes of dialogue in 2 hours? This way I can devote more of the shoot time, to the scenes that require more shots and are more complex.

 

[mlesemann]

That's exactly the kind of question that I like to ask filmmakers in a q&a at a fest.

If you can't do that, check the web site for the movie and/or production company whose movie(s) you saw at the local fest, and ask them how long it took to shoot scene x. Maybe they won't answer, but they might, and then you really have the info, instead of guessing.

 

[jax_rox]

I could set it over the course of the seasons but there is no guarantee we can shoot the scenes in order.

Movies are never shot in order, for the exact reason of scheduling - you need to work around everyone's schedule, including the location's schedule. Plus, it makes sense to shoot all the scenes at the same location at the same time, for example.

Do you have any good tips on how to get one minute of a fight/chase done in less than 8 hours?

Have rehearsals. If you get your fight choreographed before you get to set so that the actors know exactly what's going on, then on the day you can just shoot. You shouldn't have to do more than a few takes of each angle, and you shouldn't be getting 8 hours of angles (to me 8 hours is probably 15-20 shots, more if you don't change lighting between; are you really going to use 15-20 shots in one minute of action?). Cut your shot list down, or decied on exactly what shots you need before the day. Or accept that your shoot days will be that long, and deal with it.

Or make shorts until you're comfortable enough with askign people to work weekdays.

I realize I should have done it with less shots, since I am on a budget, so with only a few shots, say 4, do you think I could cover five minutes of dialogue in 2 hours? This way I can devote more of the shoot time, to the scenes that require more shots and are more complex.

You need to come up with a shot list. Some dialogue scenes can be covered in 4 shots, some need to be covered on 12. It all depends on the scene, what's happening, the subtext etc. And then, the 12 shots can be static on sticks, whereas you can have 4 dolly shots, or 2 dolly shots and a steadicam shot, which is going to take as long or perhaps longer than your 12 shots.

Get a good 1st AD, and do comprehensive pre-production. It can be tempting to just jump in to Production, but without spending time making sure you've done all your pre, you'll end up working much slower.

 

[harmonica44]

For sure I am going to start on pre next year, then shoot the year after. Wanna make sure I get all the stuff next year.

My fight scene still took 8 hours a day even though we did rehearse. A lot of it had to do with make up and blood taking up most of the time. I don't want to place blame or anything but I and the actors were ready to go and the DP always took the most time setting up. Perhaps next time it will go faster with a different DP, if that was the case that is.

 

[jax_rox]

Well, it depends on what he was setting up. Camera and lighting always take the longest to set up, that's just the way it is - it takes time to light something.

Now, if he spent two hours setting up two lights, that's probably a bit much, but I couldn't really comment without knowing your setups. Big setups and complex lighting/shot setups are going to take a little while to set up. That's why a good 1st AD will be able to schedule with that in mind, even if it means sitting down with the DP and discussing what exactly needs to be setup for each shot.

Then at leas you know if it is indeed going to take 8 hours to shoot x scene, and you can schedule everything else with that in mind, knowing you're going to need more days than you thought, and therefore having to make sacrifices either in the weather, or in paying for more lighting or whatever.

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks. Actually I was so busy trying to make sure the actors were going to show and the location was going to remain available, and me and my friend shooting it, had no time to meet to go over my storyboards. So I had to show her the storyboards on set, after I brought back the actors, whom I was picking up on the way. So it would probably take less time to set up, in the future if we had to time go over the storyboards. Next time I will storyboard before casting, cause then I can devote as much time as I need to, to getting the cast ready, in case of any dropouts, and having to find replacements, with my time.

 

[Chris Tempel]

I shot my first feature in 2007. I had accumulated two weeks paid vacation, so I decided to shoot the film in two weeks, that way I still got paid. We shot all day on weekends and just a few hours a night during the week. During the days, I'd cut the footage and plan for that night's shoot. We completed the shoot in 12 days. The trick to is write a film you can do in a reasonable amount of time.