cinematography Hey Newbs - STOP BUYING CAMERAS!

Cracker Funk

Cracker Funk

Yo, the camera on my new Galaxy S7 is fucking sweeeeeet! You wouldn't believe the amount of control I'm able to take, from ISO to white balance, I'm in charge of this camera. Okay, so I can't change lens. Whatever, there are worse struggles in life. Oh, and it does really well in low light!

Even if the fancy Galaxy S7 isn't an option for you, I'm pretty sure you can just use whatever phone you've already got.

The only things you need to purchase out of the gate are a tripod and a tripod-mount for your phone. You also need a semi-decent computer to edit on.

Fuck a camera. You're not ready for a camera. Fuck a microphone. You're not ready for a microphone. I'll give you permission to purchase a camera and a mic when you've learned how to tell a story with visuals and sound, and you can do that with the thing you already have in your pocket.
 
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FilmmakerJ said:
Sound advice. I would say that shooting stuff on your phone doesn't allow you to get proper close-ups and medium shots because everything is too in-focus and most zooms are not analogue, they are digital. Which could be done just as easily in post, since your just cropping the image that exists already.



Again, this is fair to say, as long as your talking straight to newbies. I worked for years with an 8mm vhs camera before upgrading to a tiny as hell Canon Vixia HR200. Then I switched to a Canon Rebel T3i, because I felt that I couldn't do my work effectively without the ability to change lenses, and I was right. I also needed the even better resolution.

The main reason I now have a GH4, though, is because I needed to have 4K capability to have clean edge lines when keying out green-screens, and I needed a quality camera that I could spend a short time learning to use before shooting my final movie at college. Cause I was a little late to the party when it came time to reserve camera equipment, so I knew that I'd be better off buying my own to do the job than waste time fudging around with a complicated RED One camera.



This is where you lost me.

Who's asking you for permission to do anything? No one. Is every new filmmaker now gonna have to run their work by you to get approval to move up to the next cool piece of hardware? Ain't nobody gonna do that, man.

You may be wanting to start a revolution, but there's a big difference between a revolution and a cult, and the world of film does not need a cult or a cult leader.
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Sorry, yes, I was vague when I mentioned your "prior comments". By "prior comments" I was only referencing anything you said in this particular post.

Also, I forgot to mention that I think over time you'll get to know me enough to know that I'm totally being tongue-in-cheek when I say things like "I'll give you permission", or whatever it was that I said. Of course I know that I don't have any actual authority, haha. It's just a joke dude. I hope that most people get that, but if you need me to be explicit, no, I do no have any delusion that anyone on the internet literally needs to get my permission on anything.

That being said, I'm going to be really upset if any newbs purchase a camera without first getting my permission. ;)
 
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If the idea is to learn filmmaking you should not use a cell phone even if you are a newbie.
Save a bit of money and hire a half decent camera, if you're a student you might even get a generous discount from the rental house. A 7 year old filmmaking camera will teach you more
than a 2016 4K smart phone.
 
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Jimmy Jib said:
If the idea is to learn filmmaking you should not use a cell phone even if you are a newbie.
Save a bit of money and hire a half decent camera, if you're a student you might even get a generous discount from the rental house. A 7 year old filmmaking camera will teach you more
than a 2016 4K smart phone.
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I get what you are saying, and I agree, but also disagree :)
If you want to learn filmmaking it is ok to start with learning the 'visual language and grammar' of framing and cutting with any tool that can capture moving images, be it a RED Weapon or your smartphone.
A phone lacks all the cool cinematic stuff, but you can still play around with telling a story. Framing and timing don't care for cameras. There will be no composition that starts to protest when it notices the camera. The timing of what happens before the lens doesn't change when you use a different camera. :P
So, if you want to discover filmmaking any camera you can get your hands on is fine to get a taste of it.

I've been there. One of my first efforts was shot on a low res webcam at 14fps.
Does it look great?
No!
Was it in anyway professional?
Obviously not!
Did it give me a taste of filmmaking?
Yes! It was fun and it tasted good! :)
I loved it: making plans, drawing storyboards, making props, going to the beach by train to get some sand, building a set in my parents livingroom, trying to edit with no clue how the software works (and no YouTube for tutorials), trying to record sound with a really crappy mic :D
I had no money for a camera and renting one: I had no clue where and then I would have no clue how to get it into the computer and I had no setup to edit tape to tape.

So, this might explain my position in this discussion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jZYpSxssYc

We're not talking filmschool students here, we are talking about the first babysteps into filmmaking.
Just like when to decide to learn to play guitar it is nonsense to buy a vintage Gibson Les Paul Collectors Choice, a VoxValve amplifier and a wall of speakers plus a floor board with 20 FX pedals. It makes sense to start with a simple, preferrably decent guitar to discover whether it is as cool as it looks from the audience. And if not, there is no fortune lost on gear you'll never use.

If you want to learn professional filmmaking, you'll move away from the phones or handycam as soon as you are able to. If you are a filmstudent, you'll have access to more than a smartphone soon enough.
But if you want to take the first steps and a smartphone is all you have, it is all you need for the first steps. I might be the spark to ignite the passion for filmmaking and to stir enthousiasm in your friends to get them to help on this adventure :)
 
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Jimmy Jib said:
If the idea is to learn filmmaking you should not use a cell phone even if you are a newbie.
Save a bit of money and hire a half decent camera, if you're a student you might even get a generous discount from the rental house. A 7 year old filmmaking camera will teach you more
than a 2016 4K smart phone.
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That's not even slightly true. I have a feeling that when you talk about beginning filmmaking, you're actually talking about beginning cinematography.

When I talk about beginning filmmaking, I talk about things like the rule of thirds, the 30-degree angle rule, leading lines, three point lighting, foley recording, building a soundscape, using blankets to decrease echo, using set decoration to decrease echo, building a shot list, cutting on action, the list goes on and on. There's TONS of stuff that beginning filmmakers can learn that will help them become a better filmmaker that don't require a good camera.

Once they've learned that stuff, and once they've figured out which aspect of filmmaking, yadda yadda, I've said this already. :)
 
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WalterB said:
We're not talking filmschool students here, we are talking about the first babysteps into filmmaking.
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You mean the first babysteps into indy filmmaking. But you'd be surprised what some first timers manage to do in their first efforts.... even beginner filmmakers these days have watched dozens ( maybe hundreds )of films before they even pick up a camera so they're not clueless. But if you want to "learn by doing", I guess it doesn't really matter where you start as long as you do something.
 
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Cracker Funk said:
I have a feeling that when you talk about beginning filmmaking, you're actually talking about beginning cinematography.
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You are correct my friend. I am biased towards cinematography as that is my career focus, however I am also talking about filmmaking in general. And generally speaking, it's not a good idea to tackle everything yourself.
There are plenty of talented writers out there, so why not get a proper script writer and team up with them? You can also find talented set designers or audio techs willing to help out with your film. Watch them, learn how it's done, and then maybe you can decide whether that's something you want to do yourself. Alternatively, you can be the one helping an indy filmmaker with their film... and even helping with catering will give you an excuse to be on set and learn from watching how it's done. You also need to decide whether this is your idea of a hobby.. or something you want to do for a living someday.
 
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Why limit yourself at all? This whole thread hurts my brain. Money is meant to be earned and burned. Learn from the best you can afford or get access to. If you can learn from using a RED Weapon then go for it. If it's from a phone then go for it. But don't downgrade to a phone just because you're just trying out. Be smart with your money though; if you can't afford to lose it then you can't afford it.
 
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Buying my camera last year has definitely improved my productivity as a filmmaker. The minute I bought it, it went down in value and has steadily depreciated, and I can see why that puts people off but, on the flip side, it has continued to perform, as a camera, exactly how it did in the showroom. Having the camera in my house has oddly motivated me to just get projects going, and my output has picked up significantly in the 15 months that I've owned. When I'm not using it (which is a fair amount of the time, truth be told) I rent it out very cheaply to filmmaker friends or lend it to be people who've done me favours. It's worked out well, but I was lucky to have the money for it in the first place.
 
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Jimmy Jib said:
You are correct my friend. I am biased towards cinematography as that is my career focus, however I am also talking about filmmaking in general. And generally speaking, it's not a good idea to tackle everything yourself.
There are plenty of talented writers out there, so why not get a proper script writer and team up with them? You can also find talented set designers or audio techs willing to help out with your film. Watch them, learn how it's done, and then maybe you can decide whether that's something you want to do yourself. Alternatively, you can be the one helping an indy filmmaker with their film... and even helping with catering will give you an excuse to be on set and learn from watching how it's done. You also need to decide whether this is your idea of a hobby.. or something you want to do for a living someday.
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The people I'm speaking to have never heard of a set designer or audio tech, let alone have any idea where to find them or how to contact them. The people I'm speaking to have literally no choice but to either take on everything themselves or to cajole their friends into taking part, but of course their friends don't know what they're doing either.

And do you really think an experienced audio tech would be willing to work with a person who has never made a film and possesses zero skills whatsoever? And as far as screenwriting is concerned, I've tried the method you recommend. It doesn't work, because aspiring screenwriters typically don't write screenplays that are designed to be filmed on a tiny budget with a tiny crew.

DeJager said:
Why limit yourself at all? This whole thread hurts my brain. Money is meant to be earned and burned. Learn from the best you can afford or get access to. If you can learn from using a RED Weapon then go for it. If it's from a phone then go for it. But don't downgrade to a phone just because you're just trying out. Be smart with your money though; if you can't afford to lose it then you can't afford it.
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I suspect you've never lived in poverty. Some people don't have such an easy time saving money. Some people have to save up money just to get a $50 used iphone 4. I'f you're a millionaire then yeah, go ahead and splurge on that mid-level DSLR for your first filmmaking efforts. But if purchasing a mid-level DSLR requires working extra hard to save up money, you're wasting time because the time spend saving up the money is time you could've spent learning the basics of filmmaking.

NickClapper said:
Buying my camera last year has definitely improved my productivity as a filmmaker. The minute I bought it, it went down in value and has steadily depreciated, and I can see why that puts people off but, on the flip side, it has continued to perform, as a camera, exactly how it did in the showroom. Having the camera in my house has oddly motivated me to just get projects going, and my output has picked up significantly in the 15 months that I've owned. When I'm not using it (which is a fair amount of the time, truth be told) I rent it out very cheaply to filmmaker friends or lend it to be people who've done me favours. It's worked out well, but I was lucky to have the money for it in the first place.
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I know newb filmmakers. Newb filmmakers are friends of mine. You, sir, are no newb. ;)
 
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FilmmakerJ said:
The main reason I now have a GH4, though, is because I needed to have 4K capability to have clean edge lines when keying out green-screens,
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Just a little housekeeping about extracting green screen; Resolution is virtually irrelevant when it comes to pulling good keys. The most important factors are: Capture Codec, screen lighting, screen color/quality, foreground lighting.

A HD camera capturing RAW files will give far better key results than a 4K image captured as H.264.
 
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Camera? If you want to learn a LOT about filmmaking, start with found footage or public domain footage. I made two shorts (10 festivals around the world and counting) without shooting one foot of film. I learned a ton about storytelling,editing, and sound in the process. No camera.,mo lights, no mics. Just my Macbook Pro and iMovie 09. If you really want to move on, this approach might be a good start.
 
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