Help a newbie doing short drama and documentaries, please!

[LeeMoh]

Hello Gurus,

This is my first positing here and I actually registered to learn from the experts.

I am a 37 yrs old Art Director in advertising with excellent still-photography skills. I finally made my mind to get into videography but I am totally newbie yet.

With the help of a great copywriter, we already cracked a couple of short dramas from which to chose a starter. I am also eying a great archeology subject for documentary. I believe it will surprise archeologists all over the world and will be of an interest for TV channels.

To pursue this quest I have lot of questions to ask, out of which I will start with these:

1- The obvious one:
What is he best camera/equipments should I use?
Gears should be up to the following:
a- A video quality that's excellent for any TV channel.
b- Best vivid colors and good zoom without compromise on resolution or quality.
c- Options that boost artistic aspects like wide angel and shallow depth of field.
d- Mobility is a must, but ability to fix the camera on a tripod and moving it on trail (don't know what term to use for it yet) is a most also.
e- I don't need very low light ability, but I need to record indoor and outdoor, on shoulder and on trail.
My budget is approx $7,000.

2- Storage in camera: I prefer to record on internal hard disk or flash memory more than tapes as there will always be post production for whatever I record. Is this a valid preference or there is something I am missing about tape quality that digital can't give?

3- Post Processing:
Enrolled with a comprehensive study course provided by Apple to learn FCP, I need to know if this application is enough for all my post-production needs or I need to learn more stuff like After Effect or so. Any advice on that?

4- I would greatly appreciate if you give me any more instructions / advices that would help (I am sure there is a lot to learn).

Thanks,
Lee Moh

 

[Alcove Audio]

Is this going to be a silent project, or will there be audio? In other words, have you included audio gear in your budget or will you be hiring a sound crew; and will you be doing the audio post yourself or farming the audio post out to someone like me?

 

[directorik]

1- The obvious one:
What is he best camera/equipments should I use?
Gears should be up to the following:
a- A video quality that's excellent for any TV channel.
b- Best vivid colors and good zoom without compromise on resolution or quality.
c- Options that boost artistic aspects like wide angel and shallow depth of field.
d- Mobility is a must, but ability to fix the camera on a tripod and moving it on trail (don't know what term to use for it yet) is a most also.
e- I don't need very low light ability, but I need to record indoor and outdoor, on shoulder and on trail.
My budget is approx $7,000.

2- Storage in camera: I prefer to record on internal hard disk or flash memory more than tapes as there will always be post production for whatever I record. Is this a valid preference or there is something I am missing about tape quality that digital can't give?

In your price range the best camera is the JVC GY-HM700

3- Post Processing:
Enrolled with a comprehensive study course provided by Apple to learn FCP, I need to know if this application is enough for all my post-production needs or I need to learn more stuff like After Effect or so. Any advice on that?

The more you learn the more versatile you are. FCP is an excellent
program. So is After Effects.

4- I would greatly appreciate if you give me any more instructions / advices that would help (I am sure there is a lot to learn).

There is a lot to learn. And there are pages and pages of excellent advice
and discussion right here in indietalk. Of course the FIRST bit of
advice is on the post above mine. Either you have the audio already
figured out or you have left out a very important part of making movies
and documentaries.

You might want to look at the posts discussing lighting. Another important
aspect of making movies.

 

[LeeMoh]

Tell me more

LOL Alcove!

Of course nothing will be silent.

Thanks for making me remember my first mistake however. I didn't give audio that attention yet.

I will use music SFX in many places. There will be settle interaction between drama actors in different locations. And for documentary I will interview people indoor and outdoor.

I will need to be able to capture environment audio separately for re-editing. And perhaps I will need to re-record and incorporate VOs again (for drama). I can already imagine the difficulties.

I don't think I will refer to external suppliers for audio as I need every piece of budget for equipments in this level.

I thought audio solutions would come along with the camera gears! Any advice on audio gears that would cost reasonably and match my need?



Directorik,

Thanks for the precious advices.

Reading about the JVC GY-HM700, there are the U and the UXT types. Both are pretty good apparently. Here I have another question: Is there in videography the same brand debates that we suffer from in photography (e.g. Nikon vs. Canon)? I mean why you didn't advice me to go for Panasonic, Canon, or Sony?


Thanks again guys... hope you tell me more.

 

[directorik]

I have always felt camera choice is purely personal.

As a photographer could you look at a photograph (shot by a pro)
and be able to tell if a Canon or Nikon camera was used? Or is the
debate simply a personal choice? For example; is a Canon better
than a Nikon in an objective way? Are photographers using Nikon
using inferior equipment? But yes, we do get into debates about
what is “best”. It all comes down to what the individual is
comfortable with.

In your price range you could get the Canon 60D and outfit as a
production camera. I don’t like the DSLR as a production camera
but many here do. You’ll soon get that advice and the debate will
begin.

I have shot with all the top video cameras - Sony, Canon,
Panasonic and JVC. Personally I do not like Canon cameras. In the
right hands they shoot excellent video. I own a Sony (PD170). But
in my opinion the very best camera in your price range is the JVC.
It is the camera I own and use most. If you want my suggestions on
Canon, Sony and Panasonic I can give you the models I have used
and like.

The bottom line is in your price range any camera from the four
major manufacturers is going to be an excellent camera.

 

[superamazing]

The Panasonic AG AF100 excites me, and it's in your price range. The big sensor means a small depth of field...

 

[Alcove Audio]

There will be settle interaction between drama actors in different locations.

Do you mean "subtle"? There will be all kinds of character interactions, from whispers to complete histrionics.

And for documentary I will interview people indoor and outdoor.

Narrative and documentary have different audio requirements. Many doc makers use lavs for interviews; wireless lavs (quite pricey) are also used for narrative work. You can also use ENG style interview mics.

I will need to be able to capture environment audio separately for re-editing.

Do you mean ambience/backgrounds to use in audio post? When recording production sound you also capture "room tone" and ambient sound on the set to smooth the editing process.

And perhaps I will need to re-record and incorporate VOs again (for drama). I can already imagine the difficulties.

Do you mean ADR (rerecording the production sound dialog)? No, you can't imagine the difficulties. If you haven't captured solid production audio you are in for an audio post nightmare. I do audio post for a living and dread ADR sessions most of the time, even with experienced actors.

I don't think I will refer to external suppliers for audio as I need every piece of budget for equipments in this level.

Then you have a lot of intense audio learning to do. There is a lot of knowledge and several skills you need to acquire and become comfortable with to get solid audio.

Here's my version of a passable low-budget production sound kit:

Tascam DR-100

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...100_DR_100_Professional_Portable_Digital.html

Audio-Technica AT-897 Shotgun Kit

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/300615-REG/Audio_Technica_AT897_AT897_Short_Condenser.html

Audio-Technica AT4053b Hypercardioid Microphone

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...4053b_Hypercardioid_Condenser_Microphone.html

You'll also need some nice headphones.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/49510-REG/Sony_MDR_7506_MDR_7506_Headphone.html

You should also get a few power packs for the DR-100 which will save you from buying lots of batteries which the DR-100 eats up at a ferocious rate.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/579083-REG/Tascam_BP_L2_BP_L2_Battery_Pack_for.html

This totals about $1,600.

You can save a few bucks by making a DIY boom-pole and even a DIY shock-mount, but that will require more care when handling them so they do not induce noise. DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT cheap out on cables; insufficient shielding is a major culprit in RF and other types of sonic interference. You can also save a few dollars and get the Oktava mk-012 hypercardioid mic. You can also save a few and get the Audio-Technica AT875 shotgun, but then you will be supplying the phantom power from the DR-100 which reduces battery (or power pack) life.

You may want to check out my blog:

http://www.myspace.com/alcoveaudio/blog


Putting together a reliable, good-sounding production sound kit is not cheap. And always keep in mind solid audio takes skill, planning and attention, and that solid production sound only gives you the proper "fodder" for audio post.

 

[LeeMoh]

Thanks guys!

directorik,

I agree, the camera has a personal choice to it, but specs have their call. Example, I started photography with a Nikon D300 based on an expert advice. Then shifted to D700 to get a bigger frame. And now I use a D3s after I discovered about its high ISO. You see? I wasted the price differences (between new and second hand bodies) of two cameras in order to reach to the body I needed from the beginning.

Your JVC seems to be great camera though. I like the workflow easiness. This is what I need as I will always need FCP. I will put my hand on it for sure.

Another question, somehow I feel that Panasonic and JVC have better money value. I mean they offer what Sony and Canon offer for better prices. Am I wrong?


Superamazing,

Thanks man. The AG AF100 seems to have amazing artistic abilities. Still reading about it and watching samples of its videos. I read somewhere that it doesn't have the film look that some other cameras in the same price brackets have. Will keep digging though.


Alcove,

I'm speechless! Thanks for letting me know how difficult my way is and for all the info. I need a long time to come back to you with my next question


PS: This month I'm going to start a "week camp" for Comprehensive Study for Final Cut Pro. Next month I'm enrolled with a documentary direction course offered by a BBC director here in UAE (also a week). By that time I'm sure my mind will be made for what to go for. Till then anymore advice is highly appreciated.

 

[brianluce]

Don't get the JVC if you're intending to do narrative/drama. Wrong choice because is a small sensor camera. For less money get the Panasonic AF100, it's a m43 sensor and will accept any lens ever made, both features will give you great versatility that the JVC can't compete with. If you want to film sports or birthdays parties, maybe the JVC would be nice. I like the audio suggestions, though my DR100 last quite a while on batteries, even running dual phantom power. Do those linked to power packs work on the DR100? I think they're for other units aren't they?

 

[LeeMoh]

Don't get the JVC if you're intending to do narrative/drama. Wrong choice because is a small sensor camera. For less money get the Panasonic AF100, it's a m43 sensor and will accept any lens ever made, both features will give you great versatility that the JVC can't compete with. If you want to film sports or birthdays parties, maybe the JVC would be nice. I like the audio suggestions, though my DR100 last quite a while on batteries, even running dual phantom power. Do those linked to power packs work on the DR100? I think they're for other units aren't they?

Thanks brianluce,

Now I have two people voting for Panasonic AF100,
But a question, if my target is TV isn't the large sensor a waste of space? Because eventually I will crop the frames to make them equal to the JVC ones. Am I wrong here?

 

[directorik]

If you want to film sports or birthdays parties, maybe the JVC would be nice.

I have shot five features, Amazing Race, Survivor, Pawn Stars and
American Restoration with the JVC. It has an industry standard
bayonet lens mount that can accept any lens out there. I have
found this camera to be just slightly better than a camera used
to shoot birthday parties.

Nothing wrong with the AF100. It's a fine camera that I took out
for a test drive recently.

See, this is what I meant. The camera brand is a personal choice.
Both cameras can be used for narrative/drama but brianluce feels
it's necessary to reduce the GY-HM700U to a birthday party camera
because he prefers the AF100.

LeeMoh, if you prefer the AF100 you will find it to be an excellent
camera. Based on my experience with both I would still buy the
birthday party camera.

 

[brianluce]

Thanks brianluce,

Now I have two people voting for Panasonic AF100,
But a question, if my target is TV isn't the large sensor a waste of space? Because eventually I will crop the frames to make them equal to the JVC ones. Am I wrong here?

No, that has nothing to do with it. You want the AF100 because its large sensor has better light gathering capability than the puny JVC GY-HM700. And, perhaps more importantly, it can do shallow focus shooting, which means the subject is in focus and the background is blurry -- allowing more control over the frame -- it's critical for narrative type shoots.

If you can wait a little longer, Sony has an new 35mm video camera coming, looks promising.

And Directorik, how dare you disparage birthday videographers! Stop being so

 

[NickClapper]

I've shot on the JVC GY-HM700 as well and it's a perfectly nice camera.

I think it's a little bit much for birthday parties, at least it is for the birthday parties I've had. If you can get a good price on one second hand then that's certainly a useful avenue of pursuit. I've never shot with the Panasonic AG AF100 so I can't comment on that other than that it seems, to me, like a very expensive 5D.

 

[directorik]

And Directorik, how dare you disparage birthday videographers! Stop being so

What!? I proudly own and shoot with that birthday party camera.

Oh wait... you're talking about the videographers themselves... Yeah, I'm
disparaging them....

When I put a nice Ziess DigiPrime on my puny JVC I can get a very shallow
DOF. But then shallow DOF isn't important to me. If that if ones primary
need then the AF100 is the way to go.

 

[LeeMoh]

Higher budget

OK, what directorik said seems to be true. Debate of shooting with DSLR started.

I have 2 questions related to the same.
1- Nearly all video editing gurus told me that panning in DSLR videos is not good. It gives a feeling of discontinuity when the camera pans in medium-to-fast speed (this is particularly important for events and sport). Is this true?
2- Everyone is praising the Canon D5 MkII and D7, but what about the Panasonic GH2? In dpreview.com it's the DSLR number one in video.


directorik,

Away from DSLRs that I know you wouldn't advice, if my budget increased to $9k for the camera alone (which is the case), what model and brand you advice?


brianluce,

I checked Philip Bloom's opinion about the Panasonic AF100. He isn't impressed with it and it ranked the last for him compared to Sony F3, Sony PS100 and Canon 5DMk II. One of the most important comments he gave is that its sensor is small (!!!) which for you have to step away from the object to catch the same frame the other cameras can catch.


Sorry if I sound pampering myself with questions, but this is the only way for me to know-what-and-how.

 

[brianluce]

I'm not a fan of Phil Bloom. His pricey tutorials are like infomercials -- there's everything but an 800 number, I've also seen him endorse products he admits to never testing. And I don't get how he can say the AF has a small sensor, m43 will give you all the shallow focus shots you could hope for. Yes, it's smaller than a 5d, or a Red One, but it's a lot bigger than the 1/3rd sensors everyone used for so long. That said, there is some disappointment with the AF100 because expectations were so high, initial reports we good, then someone compared it to the puny GH2 (It's even punier that the JVC!) and uh oh, the GH2 resolved more lines. Buyer remorse set in, finger pointing, death threats, then the air strikes started. So it's had a few hiccups.

About panning, well 24p always demands careful panning, the jellovision/rolling shutter issues also affects panning, but if you are careful, and skillful, you can pan all you want.

I used to use the Canon 7d, I'm not a fan, it's not particularly sharp, audio is awful, but mainly it's the moire and aliasing problems. Then there's the overheating thing.

If I had 9k, I'd be all over that Sony. If you go with the aforementioned JVC, you might double it up with a Canon Rebel or GH1 or 2 for shallow focus shots. There are so many great affordable options now. These are happy times.

 

[LeeMoh]

Great brianluce, you're helping me narrowing my options.
Should I understand that you see in Sony in general the best HDV cameras?

Of course I don't want to carry two cameras with me. I prefer to focus on a super cam that does it all. I will pamper her, promise

Example, footages of Sony NEXFS100UK look so cool. It has exchangeable lenses and large sensor. It is for $5k without lenses. I can keep the extra $4k for lenses coz changing lenses really matters for me - being into photography

What do you think about it?

PS. I didn't drop the AF100 as an option.

 

[wheatgrinder]

Its not the cameras, its the frame rate used. The downside of 24fps that everyone loves is that you cant pan fast. This is a problem wth film movies too!