Harvey Weinstein fired from The Weinstein Co.

[Velusion]

Jane Mable, an actress from the early talkies bragged about how she slept her way through the ranks to progress her career.

I'm with you guys. I wish this was the kind of world where people always moved forward in their careers through hard work and dedication but the truth of the matter is that people get ahead by who they know and who they blow... A crude expression I admit but I didn't make it up. The casting couch is real and probably has been real since before there was a casting couch.

This is all so terrible.
A fat disgusting pig with a lot of power using it to exploit women.
Women allowing it to happen for the sake of their career and the oh mighty dollar.
Our society should not be this way.

Then again, if it wasn't for juicy scandals like this, the rest of us would not be able to get on our soap boxes and pontificate about how terrible these abusers are. We would not be able to point our finger at the bad guys and exclaim how very very wrong they are. We sleep better knowing that we are better than Harvey and the rest of the bad guys. We go to on-line forums and tell others how bad people like Harvey are,,,, but who are we? Which one of us is so Christ-like that we've earned the right to pass judgement on others. Which one of you is without sin or spiritual transgression? I would wager that none of us is so clean. ... This is between these women and men and their abusers and the authorities. Not a single one of us knows anything except what we read in books and news papers, and on-line. Don't pretend that you have some inside information. Rose Mcgowan says that Harvey raped her.... The only 2 people who know if that is true or not is Rose and Harvey......

But .alas, it does make for some good conversation around the water cooler at work, doesn't it?

 

[sfoster]

Say goodnight to the bad guy.
Last time you're gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzfX0T4LDD8

Something sending shockwaves across multiple industries is not just between a victim and the predator.

 

[buscando]

if it wasn't for juicy scandals like this, the rest of us would not be able to get on our soap boxes and pontificate about how terrible these abusers are. We would not be able to point our finger at the bad guys and exclaim how very very wrong they are. We sleep better knowing that we are better than Harvey and the rest of the bad guys. We go to on-line forums and tell others how bad people like Harvey are,,,, but who are we? Which one of us is so Christ-like that we've earned the right to pass judgement on others. Which one of you is without sin or spiritual transgression? I would wager that none of us is so clean.

Well I never sexually harassed anyone so is it okay for me to pass judgement on Harvey?
Or do I really have to be Christ-like super clean to be able to do that?

 

[jax_rox]

Jane Mable, an actress from the early talkies bragged about how she slept her way through the ranks to progress her career.

And therefore any female who has experienced sexual assault towards her was 'asking for it' or at least 'not innocent'?

You're right, it is messed up that our society allows 'casting couches' to happen, and that women can feel so powerless that they feel they need to comply to advance their career. Or alternately, by not complying that they would be destroying their careers. And that speaking out would also be disastrous for their careers. It's also messed up that up until right now, speaking out would have been disastrous for their careers.

if it wasn't for juicy scandals like this, the rest of us would not be able to get on our soap boxes and pontificate about how terrible these abusers are. [...] who are we? Which one of us is so Christ-like that we've earned the right to pass judgement on others. Which one of you is without sin or spiritual transgression? I would wager that none of us is so clean.

Yes, because unless every single person in the world is perfect and without sin, we should not even attempt to change our society, or call out bad behaviour, right...?

The point isn't to point fingers and talk about how bad 'they' are. It's to bring about societal change. It's to stand up for what's right and say that inappropriate behaviour is totally unacceptable and we will not stand for it, regardless of who you are.

This is not just some 'juicy scandal'. As I said:

Unconscious sexism is extremely prevalent in our society, and it's become so normalised that often we don't even realise we're doing it. We must ensure we call out misogynistic attitudes in others and more importantly learn to recognise when we're doing it ourselves if we have any chance of eradicating these detrimental attitudes from our society.

Suggesting that a female who has been sexually assaulted in any way, shape or form was 'not totally innocent' or must have been at least a little compliant, because she must have been doing it to get a part is a misogynistic attitude that must be called out if we have any chance of eradicating these detrimental attitudes from our society.

 

[Velusion]

Tony Montana.. I knew someone would spot that one

Buscando, let me ask you; what sense of satisfaction to you get condemning Harvey? He is the one who has to live with what he had done. He has pretty much lost everything he worked his entire life building (just like Bill Cosby).

Do you think Harvey is the devil? because if he is the devil I say let's call an exorcist to get him out of here.

Harvey is a sick man who had the power that allowed him to do the things he did. Maybe if he never had that power he would have been a different person. I don't hate him. I do not wish him any harm. I pity him and I hope he can find some resolution to the problems he has.

Yes, I do believe people are responsible for their actions, no matter how sick they may be. He is now answering for the things he has done. The chickens have come home to roost...

Ask yourself, why did he do these things? It probably has something to do with his upbringing. I'm not making excuses for him but unless you believe he is a product of pure evil, he did these things as a response to something that probably happened to him when he was young. Well adjusted people don't suddenly turn into sociopaths.

Guys like you and I will never know what that much power can do to a person. You may not want to entertain the idea but what if you were a big time movie producer with more power than most of Hollywood. Can you say for certain that it would not corrupt you in any way?? Cause I'll tell ya, I'm honest enough to say that if I had that power and I was surrounded by beautiful women I might be tempted to use it. No, not rape or coercion but maybe a little "I scratch your back - you scratch mine".... if they were willing. Now, if you say that you absolutely know that you would not even be tempted I will say that you are in denial.

Something sending shockwaves across multiple industries is not just between a victim and the predator

Come on...... this "shockwave" is only a forced - politically correct response to something that I'm sure EVERYONE knows happens in Hollywood and everywhere else on a daily basis. Do you think Harvey invented the casting couch,,,, and how come a guy like me who has never worked in Hollywood knows about the casting couch? Answer: because EVERYONE knows about it.

Don't get me wrong guys. I am not on Harvey's side but instead, I do see him as a human being who made some bad choices in life.

 

[jax_rox]

Harvey is a sick man who had the power that allowed him to do the things he did.
[...]
Ask yourself, why did he do these things? It probably has something to do with his upbringing.
[...]
Well adjusted people don't suddenly turn into sociopaths.

It has everything to do with his upbringing. He's not a 'sick man' any more than the plethora of men in positions of absolute or relative power across the world are 'sick' - and there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions. Probably tens of millions men who have unacceptable attitudes towards women. People who you and I would call friends. People who are otherwise normal.

It has nothing to do with being well-adjusted or being a sociopath. It has everything to do with a society that has and continues to treat women as nothing but sexual objects. That implies that women have no worth other than in the way they relate to a man.

The reason this is so prevalent isn't because a huge number of men across the world 'just happen' to be sick sociopaths. It stems out of an upbringing in a society that suggests the male gender is the only one of real worth as a person.

Can you say for certain that it would not corrupt you in any way?? Cause I'll tell ya, I'm honest enough to say that if I had that power and I was surrounded by beautiful women I might be tempted to use it. No, not rape or coercion but maybe a little "I scratch your back - you scratch mine".... if they were willing. Now, if you say that you absolutely know that you would not even be tempted I will say that you are in denial.

This is purely a hypothetical, but further serves to re-enforce my point. You feel that way because that's how you view women. Because of your upbringing, and because of society, not because of a sickness. We should be aiming for a society where all men are capable of seeing women as people first. And unless we call out unacceptable attitudes and behaviour we will get nowhere.

 

[Velusion]

It has nothing to do with being well-adjusted or being a sociopath. It has everything to do with a society that has and continues to treat women as nothing but sexual objects.

I know.. I know you're right. I agree with you 100%. I didn't want to say it for fear of shocking those with delicate sensibilities.

You feel that way because that's how you view women.

ok. now I've got to call you on this one. .. As much as a lot of men try to the contrary, we are still just animals with basic instincts. The sex drive is probably the second most powerful instinct we have, right behind our instinct to live - to survive. I can't remember the exact statistic but it is said that men think of sex on an average of once every 10 seconds (or something close to that). We see a woman and we instantly assess her beauty and judge her physical endowments. Don't tell me you don't do this 'cause if you do, I'll say you probably suffer from low testosterone. .. I've read that the number one reason most men do not cheat on their wives is simply fear of being caught. Face it man; it's in our blood to have women. We can't help it.

 

[jax_rox]

As much as a lot of men try to the contrary, we are still just animals with basic instincts. [...] We see a woman and we instantly assess her beauty and judge her physical endowments. Don't tell me you don't do this 'cause if you do, I'll say you probably suffer from low testosterone. .. I've read that the number one reason most men do not cheat on their wives is simply fear of being caught. Face it man; it's in our blood to have women. We can't help it.

I can't agree with you on that. I still assert that it's the society we live in. Don't take for granted the way in which hundreds of years of history treating women a certain way has an effect on everyone.

I think the 'animal instincts' retort is a good excuse, but is no more than that - an excuse.

There's a difference between finding someone attractive and feeling you have a right to them or their body.

 

[Velusion]

There's a difference between finding someone attractive and feeling you have a right to them or their body.

I could not agree more and I hope I didn't say anything that suggests otherwise.

 

[sfoster]

Come on...... this "shockwave" is only a forced - politically correct response to something that I'm sure EVERYONE knows happens in Hollywood and everywhere else on a daily basis.

The condemnation of sexual assault does not fall into the category of political correctness.
That's basic morality.

 

[buscando]

what sense of satisfaction to you get condemning Harvey? He is the one who has to live with what he had done. He has pretty much lost everything he worked his entire life building (just like Bill Cosby).

I don't get satisfaction from condemning him. I'm just doing it because it seems he irreparably harmed a lot of people.

Do you think Harvey is the devil? because if he is the devil I say let's call an exorcist to get him out of here.

I'm not religious anyway, but let's wait on the exorcist until Harvey has peed on the rug or had sex with a crucifix.

why did he do these things? It probably has something to do with his upbringing. ...unless you believe he is a product of pure evil, he did these things as a response to something that probably happened to him when he was young. Well adjusted people don't suddenly turn into sociopaths.

His upbringing, his being conditioned by an environment that promotes mistreatment of women, his having a powerful position, so he has a lot of reasons for doing it. It's still wrong.

Guys like you and I will never know what that much power can do to a person. ...what if you were a big time movie producer with more power than most of Hollywood. Can you say for certain that it would not corrupt you in any way?? ...I'm honest enough to say that if I had that power and I was surrounded by beautiful women I might be tempted to use it. No, not rape or coercion but maybe a little "I scratch your back - you scratch mine".... if they were willing.

We do know that having that much power can lead to an abuse of that power. If I was a powerful producer I might be tempted, & if I made a proposition like that to someone trying to get a job, it's completely wrong, whether the person was willing or not. And if they report me, I deserve to be condemned. Scratching each other's back is okay I guess if we couldn't reach the itch ourselves & if it was consensual & if it was so super itchy it kept us from doing our jobs.

this "shockwave" is only a forced - politically correct response to something that I'm sure EVERYONE knows happens in Hollywood and everywhere else on a daily basis. Do you think Harvey invented the casting couch,,,, and how come a guy like me who has never worked in Hollywood knows about the casting couch? Answer: because EVERYONE knows about it.

Politically correct or not, even if Everyone knows it happens everywhere, even if Harvey didn't invent the couch, even if you've never worked in Hollywood but know about it, we still have to stop sexual harassment. How would you feel if it happened to your mother, sister, daughter, wife?

 

[WalterB]

It is true: it is a world dominated by men.
Even sexual education (if offered at schools) divides the world like that: first menstruation vs first ejaculation.
Whole societies teach their children that girls should dress and behave 'properly' and that those who don't are sluts.

...............

Come on...... this "shockwave" is only a forced - politically correct response to something that I'm sure EVERYONE knows happens in Hollywood and everywhere else on a daily basis.............

Politically correct.
And socially, mentally, humanly, emotionally correct.

For too long it was 'politically' or 'financially correct' to uphold an omerta around predators in power.
It was about time that the people who really know act.

'Politically correct' has too often become a phrase to try to deflect* from the content of what is being said, because many claim that 'PC' is bad. It has become a newspeak word to attack unwelcome messages and changes or to suggest it hides a truth.
'Hypocracy' hides truths and sometimes when people say 'PC' they mean the hypocarcy to give a socially acceptable answer. Like politician promising to help you and then only help themselves and their friends. (I understand where it comes from. )
But sometimes 'PC' has just become a 'weapon' in debates, too often used so people can judge the message without talking about the message. (Just like the phrases 'fake news' or 'socialist' have become closing arguments instead of opening arguments followed by the thoughts/facts/reasoning behind it.)

*) I'm not saying you are deflecting. Just realise how the meaning of the word shifts more and more towards 'discrediting'. At this rate the law of Godwin needs to be amended with or 'PC'.

 

[sfoster]

Harvey allegedly told aspiring actresses that he received sexual favors from Renee Zellweger, Gwyneth Paltrow and Charlize Theron in exchange for their career advancement.
Renee's representative spoke to People and denied the claim. Seems better not to even give a response.. once you give a response it becomes news and they write articles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhdn7RJH4AM

 

[Velusion]

Harvey allegedly told aspiring actresses that he received sexual favors from Renee Zellweger, Gwyneth Paltrow and Charlize Theron in exchange for their career advancement.

and if that is true, look what happened to them. They all became wealthy and famous actresses.

They willingly gave Harvey what he wanted and he in turn, gave them what they wanted.... and now some of them are complaining. Whatever they did, they did voluntarily as far as we know. We were not in the room....and it really is none of our business anyway.

Point your finger all you want, the world DOES work this way sometimes. I'm not passing judgment on anyone... Two adults can do whatever they want to each other as long as both are willing. Harvey is not Bill Cosby. He did not drug woman then rape them. He may have said "let me do you and I'll make you a star" or something to that affect. Big difference. The women can say NO! but they choose not to. They weigh their options; let the fat sweaty pig touch me and have the movie career I've been dreaming of my whole life or say no, in which case I may or may not get in this movie or any other... By the way, I haven't read a single story about an actress who was blacklisted from Hollywood because she would not play Harvey's game. Everyone assumes ol' Harv would end their career if they didn't play ball. Speculation.

I know I know. All of you are shocked at my heartless siding with Harvey... but I'm not siding with anyone. I'm simply watching this social comedy and commenting on it.... It makes me giggle when people pontificate about how terrible someone is when in fact they are doing what many before them have done and many after him will do. Same with the actors and actresses. They will continue to go along with it just so they can get their shot at stardom. They want that more than anything. For my whole life I wanted to be a successful film maker more than anything. I was never put in a position of having to consider what "off the board" things I might do to make it a reality but,,, well, you never know

Condemn me to death, fellas. It's ok because I know that what people say publicly and what they think in the privacy of their own mind are sometimes two completely different things. Condemn a fat unattractive man for wanting beautiful woman and for using his power to get them but remember, these women were not mental cases. They could have said no.

 

[sfoster]

They willingly gave Harvey what he wanted and he in turn, gave them what they wanted.... and now some of them are complaining.

Renee Zellweger, Gwyneth Paltrow and Charlize Theron have made no allegations about sexual assault or as you put it, complaints.
Where are you getting this from?

I think you might be confusing what allegedly happened with one woman and applying that to a totally different scenario that happened to other women.
Just becomes some are complicit doesn't mean that others aren't victims.

 

[buscando]

Velusion, I guess you feel what Harvey did was fine as long as it was consensual & because you might do the same thing if you were him & this happens all the time.
So is it okay with you if someone propositioned your mother, sister, daughter, or wife & they had to make that choice to have sex for their career?
It wouldn't be okay with me.

 

[Velusion]

LOL! Some people say the funniest things. No. It wouldn't be ok with me but in the real world is does happen.

Listen, If all we're doing in this thread is complaining that the world is unfair and some people take advantage of other people then I agree.... but so what? This is the world we live in.

 

[buscando]

I'm glad I made you laugh.
The point is even though this is the world we live in, we have the ability to change things & that starts with our thoughts & attitudes.

 

[Velusion]

Very optimistic view, buscando.

 

[buscando]

Thoughts & ideas are powerful.
The things Martin Luther King Jr. & Gandhi accomplished all started with thoughts & ideas.
Same thing with Hitler & Manson.