First feature, a little worried about money

[mnestevao]

Hey guys,

I am making my first feature film. All things are ok but the money. I have the perfect volunteer crew, good screenplay, even a teaser.

I have done press releases, facebook and twitter promotion, have a website, but 2 months since I started the journey and the only financial supporter is me with far from good money to make the $16,000 "ideal" budget movie (The worst scenario is a $7,000 for food and equip rental, very far from ideal, but the movie get made).

I have offered levels of donations with different rewards that I think are good, but doesn't seem to be attractive.

Any advice for this filmmaker?

My film is "Dores Comuns" ("Joint Pains"), http://www.dorescomuns.com.br

Thanks in advance!

 

[Murdock]

Yea, Shared Pains is better

 

[Cracker Funk]

Edit: that prices of equipment are the cheapest I found. I think this film is a very good story and deserves it, so I can take my food out of the budget, but not the equip.

Dude. You ain't lookin' hard enough. Take the food out of the budget and you've got one pissed-off cast/crew. You can reduce the cost of your equipment by a mile, by purchasing used, and/or less-expensive-but-still-quality equipment.

So, you're going to spend as much as you can on the best equipment you can afford, but you'll be working with a volunteer crew? Do you think those volunteers are going to know how to get the best out of that equipment? You might as well just settle with the least expensive (decent) equipment, and use the leftover money to keep bellies full, and pay for all the random stuff that will surface.

I gotta get back to my first question -- you're going to shoot a feature in 12 days? I think this goal is way over-ambitious, and you should budget considerably more time (unless, by "feature", you mean 45 minutes). Will somebody please back me up on this?

P.S. On a sidenote, I love a good churrascaria!

 

[NickClapper]

Even though you say you don't want to talk about the teaser, i'm afraid i'm going to drag it back.

If you are happy with that teaser and if you believe that 90% of people would like that teaser and you think that that is what hand held 'shaky' camera should look like, then I don't know why you're so keen to invest in renting the 5D.

Before you spend thousands of dollars renting equipment you need to make sure that you know what you're doing. If you can't be discerning enough to know that that teaser trailer looks like the work of a rank amateur, then there's not much point in investing so much money in the project.

Sorry to be so blunt.

 

[IvoryOasis]

So, I don't get this at all.

You are paying 2k to RENT the camera for 12 days? But I just googled it and it says you can buy the 5d mark ii for 3k (with a lense). You also listing that you want to buy a tripod? Why not go to home depot and BUILD one? Get creative... You could probably make a tripod for something like 20 dollars (which you have "budgeted" to RENT for 700 dollars ). Heck, get a chair or something and use that to steady the camera...

For someone with no money, you are sure going the expensive direction.

You have 300 dollars listed for mail....300 dollars listed for a phone.... tons of equipment ... 3,000 for FOOD alone! Woaaa, just tell your volunteers to eat lunch before they come! Or maybe find a smaller team and aim a little lower. More people doesn't = better movie. And what are all these other costs? Go down to a recycling center and see if they have a JUNK phone someone threw away and use that... you don't need to go out and buy a new 300 dollar phone just for a prop (unless you are talking about everyones phone bill? lol).

You even have web advertising as 1,200 dollars. How much does it cost to make a facebook page and twitter and things like that? Or an account on youtube? ((btw, all those were free)) Maybe rely more on word of mouth? Figure out a better way to market (or cheaper)?

And, onto the teaser...

I don't want to be mean... but it is for your own good (so I'm not going to soften the news and make it more gentle) ...umm... the teaser is bad. The people who told you it was great lied to you, they were being "nice" (and their being nice only hurt your project, you need to ask people who will be honest with you). I'm not even a film maker yet, but even I can tell you that it looks like some highschool kid took a quick shot of some things on a table and some people walking around.... there is nothing on the walls, the table has some random glass globe on it (I guess because you thought the scene needed something interesting). Sorry I had to get mean, but like I said, you REALLY need someone telling you the truth.... expecially if you are going to use their "nice comments" as fuel to dilusion and run out and try to needlessly throw so much money into it.

Maybe you need to start smaller? With a tiny tiny budget? Make it with a couple volunteers?

Have you made movies before? Or are you trying to jump into it with a feature? I think you might just be really jumping the gun (and throwing away a ton of money in the process).

So, sorry again for getting mean, but you really need to just aim lower (IMO).

 

[Cracker Funk]

IvoryOasis asks a good question -- what movies have you made?

A feature would be a really bad place to start.

mnestevao, I know it seems like we're all jumping on you, but you can rest assured that every single person who's offered advice on this forum is doing so in hopes of helping you. I'm not sure that I'd use Ivory's same language, and say that you should aim lower, but I'll agree with the sentiment that you should definitely not take on a project like this, if you haven't already had a number of smaller successes.

 

[IvoryOasis]

OK, I just noticed this also... on your website....

"Video On-Demand - Through the official website, people pay $ 10.00 and can watch the movie as often as they want on this website for a period of 1 (one) month. "

Really? o.O Umm... you can go out and buy a DVD from major studios for that much... or that would buy you a month of netflicks (all the movies you can watch).

So... hmmm... o.O

 

[mnestevao]

Ok guys, I give up on this thread, I think my English isn't good enough to explain some things like the "Phone" on the budgets, it's not a prop, it's phone bill.

I am not wanting to take the food out of my crew, I said my food, anyway it was just an expression.

I will never tell my crew to lunch before come, they are already paying their transportation and working for free.

12 days is enough, I planned everything when writing, and my assistant dir. made the schedule.

You will call me crazy and say I am going the wrong way, but I will make this as my first feature, before this I made a short film.

Don't get me wrong, but I really don't need more people saying to me it is impossible.

You are all invited to your nearest film festival to see the movie in 2012.

Thanks!

 

[Dreadylocks]

Do you really need full-frame? If not, you might consider the 7D. And if you're going to consider the 7D, might as well consider the T2i.

Do you really need that super-awesome tripod? Or, can you get by with one that can be purchased for $200?

Ditto for that sound kit -- are you sure you couldn't get the job done with equipment that can be purchased for less than $1,000?

And dude, for $2,000, if you're okay with used, you can build yourself a nice light-kit, especially if you compliment your used equipment with some DIY lights.

This is entirely true. And I don't think OP needs all of that fancy stuff.

But there's one thing you're not taking into account: this guy is in Brasil. For some reason, electronics in Brasil are inordinately expensive. I have many friends down there and when they come visit, they buy up a TON of electronics. It's like the old French people and blue jeans stereotype.

So maybe for the OP, it would be more expensive to buy those things than rent them. idk

 

[Dreadylocks]

Ok guys, I give up on this thread, I think my English isn't good enough to explain some things like the "Phone" on the budgets, it's not a prop, it's phone bill.

I am not wanting to take the food out of my crew, I said my food, anyway it was just an expression.

I will never tell my crew to lunch before come, they are already paying their transportation and working for free.

12 days is enough, I planned everything when writing, and my assistant dir. made the schedule.

You will call me crazy and say I am going the wrong way, but I will make this as my first feature, before this I made a short film.

Don't get me wrong, but I really don't need more people saying to me it is impossible.

You are all invited to your nearest film festival to see the movie in 2012.

Thanks!

Don't give up on the thread! I know language barriers are hard, but that's no reason to stop communicating. Your English is actually quite good, you're just slipping up on some syntax and trying to translate idiomatic expressions.

I, like the other, misunderstood your comment about not buying food. But that's not anyone's fault. And now the misunderstanding is cleared up. And just so you know, we have a similar expression. We would probably just say it like "I would go without food." or "I would go without eating."

 

[Cracker Funk]

Ok guys, I give up on this thread, I think my English isn't good enough to explain some things like the "Phone" on the budgets, it's not a prop, it's phone bill.

I am not wanting to take the food out of my crew, I said my food, anyway it was just an expression.

I will never tell my crew to lunch before come, they are already paying their transportation and working for free.

12 days is enough, I planned everything when writing, and my assistant dir. made the schedule.

You will call me crazy and say I am going the wrong way, but I will make this as my first feature, before this I made a short film.

Don't get me wrong, but I really don't need more people saying to me it is impossible.

You are all invited to your nearest film festival to see the movie in 2012.

Thanks!

Dude, just step away from it, then come back. In my last post, I tried to assure that we're all here to help you, because I could see this coming. It's understandable for you to feel this way, because a symphony of criticism can become deafening to the point that you will no longer hear it.

You've made A short? And that's enough for you to know that you can shoot a feature in 12 days? It doesn't matter what your assistant director thinks you can do -- the buck stops with you; you're the one in charge of things. If YOU don't know, for damn sure, that you can shoot it in 12 days, don't trust someone else with that.

Have you ever shot 8 pages in 1 day, and gotten good results? Now, can you imagine doing that 12 days in a row? Keep in mind -- you'll be doing a whole lot more than directing; you're going to be one busy individual.

Go ahead and bury your head in the sand, if you wanna play ostrich. But dude, you're in pre-production. If ever there was a time to listen to dissenting points of view THIS is it. Stick around, and you might be really glad you did.

As far as equipment is concerned, I was talking about ebay -- that shit is cheap, no matter where you are.

 

[NickClapper]

Ok guys, I give up on this thread, I think my English isn't good enough to explain some things like the "Phone" on the budgets, it's not a prop, it's phone bill.

I am not wanting to take the food out of my crew, I said my food, anyway it was just an expression.

I will never tell my crew to lunch before come, they are already paying their transportation and working for free.

12 days is enough, I planned everything when writing, and my assistant dir. made the schedule.

You will call me crazy and say I am going the wrong way, but I will make this as my first feature, before this I made a short film.

Don't get me wrong, but I really don't need more people saying to me it is impossible.

You are all invited to your nearest film festival to see the movie in 2012.

Thanks!

This sort of attitude would be fine if you had a camera and mic and a bunch of friends willing to be in your film.

But if you're trying to raise the best part of $20,000 then you might as well forget it.

The budgeting is wrong; the timescale is madness; your experience is insufficient.

No one is saying this is impossible. All i'm saying is that unless you do things properly and with organisation and commitment you're going to be wasting your money. You asked for opinion on how to raise money and the overwhelming response has been that you need to re-evaluate the way you are making this film.

If you don't like people being negative then at least take from this thread the fact that you can cut your expenses down. If you have to go out and make a poor quality, rushed film then at least don't waste too much money on it.

But if you don't believe all of the people on here telling you this then I doubt you'll take anything else on board.

 

[srbclarke]

This movie is 100% possible to make and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Your biggest problem will be getting people to want to see it once it's done.

One thing other thing I will say though, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, I got no idea why your budget is as high as $16,000. I could just repeat what everyone else has said to you about buying equipment, but I won't bother. What I will offer though, if you like, you can PM me and email me your proposed budget for the film. I'd gladly look over it in detail and work out where you should b spending less / more. I don't pretend to be a know it all, but I am used to dealing with film budgets from $0 right up to $70,000.

 

[dlevanchuk]

I'm not trying to be a d**k or anything... if thats the BEST promo you can do to catch potential investors eye... wow...

The movie that you are picturing in your head will be waaaay different from what it will be on the actual screen. Trust me.

I agree with srbclarke. You can make the movie. Sh*t, you can make your full feature movie not in 12 days, but in 12 hours. But.. nobody will watch it. (Unless thats what you're going for). Because it will be crap.

For starts, look up first and original Robert Rodriguez's 10 minute film school.

I don't know what your filmmaking background is, and if its true that you've made only ONE short movie.... but by looking at you promo video, you've got LOT to learn, before your feature shoot.



BUT! The plot does sound interesting!

 

[Alcove Audio]

Okay, I know you're getting dumped on, and more criticism is the last thing that you want to hear. However, as I and many others here on IndieTalk are fond of pointing out, the entertainment industry can be brutal. There are tens of thousands who want to direct, maybe one in a thousand has real talent and maybe one of that thousand will ever be successful to any degree whatsoever. Here you will get honest, and, admittedly, sometimes contrary advice; but it is meant with the best of intentions - to help you improve your skills and your product.

The teaser did nothing for me. I found nothing to interest me to either participate, invest or even see the film.

The story premise is interesting, but there are thousands of interesting ideas for films. It is the execution that will attract audiences. Your current mission, however, is to attract financial support. That means selling yourself and your project; in other words - MARKETING. No matter how talented you are, how passionate you are or how much you consider yourself an artist, those who invest in a project are ultimately interested on ROI (Return On Investment). In order to attract financial backers you need to impress them with your experience and have a business plan. (BTW, you haven't budgeted anything for post - editing, CGI, color correction, scoring, audio post; not even a budget for the terrabytes of disk space you will certainly need. Nor have you included an "after the film is made" marketing strategy.)

You admittedly have little experience. You may very well be the next Ford, Hitchcock, Speilberg or Tarrantino, but the investors need something concrete. It's in the nature of investing in a start-up business; they need at least some assurances that their money will not be flushed down the toilet. So the teaser will have to look like something with which they are familiar. Let's face it, they don't give a damn about art, they want to make a profit. And another thought, how many points are you willing to give to the investors? Because to the investors it's all about business and making money. And that is what you have to instill in them, the hope that they will make money on the project.

So to sum up... This is a marketing campaign to attract investors. Touting your friends, the volunteer crew, etc. is not a way to inspire confidence. You need a great log line, you need to infect them with your enthusiasm, you need to infect them with your professionalism and the professionalism of your cast and crew, and, by means of your business plan, they need some assurances that there is at least a possibility of at least making back their investment if not a profit.

 

[spinner]

I see now where the OP has talked about his experience level. I personally will never tell a person that their promo should be thrown out. If someone is just beginning, it might be a first attempt. We need to critique, not tear down. I know it doesn't help to delude anyone about their work, but if you are just starting out, tell them how to improve it so they don't get discouraged. This ain't American Idol.

So on that note, First;

The promo could pass in how it was shot if it weren't for the fact that it doesn't tell you what the film is about. Remember that you know the story, we don't, so what we saw doesn't say anything about the story. I think it seemed very sentimental with the soft focus, but what we need to know isn't there and that is why the promo doesn't work. The spare set design is also something that most beginners forget about. Look at what your house looks like or what houses on tv look like. Then figure out how to do your set dressing.

Second;

Guys, just because a person is volunteering doesn't mean their skills suck. I volunteer all the time and I think I am an okay editor. I volunteer to keep my skills up since as of now I am still looking for a job. Keep the food expenditure in the budget. Your people are volunteering, the least you can do is feed them for their time, especially if you can't pay them.

Also, be careful about your equipment expenditures.

If you can rent the camera for $2,000, you can BUY it for that much and have the equipment for your next project. Same for your tripod. I BOUGHT my Bogen-Manfrotto tripod for $300 give or take a couple of bucks and it is and EXCELLENT tripod.

$16,000 sounds like a pretty big budget for a second attempt. You can have an online presence by making a free page on both Myspace and Facebook. I think you should look over your budget again and see where you might make some reductions.

Good Luck and don't get discouraged. Almost nobody's first film is ever all that spectacular so if it doesn't work out the way you want, get started on your next project.

-- spinner

 

[Utopia]

The promo could pass in how it was shot if it weren't for the fact that it doesn't tell you what the film is about. Remember that you know the story, we don't, so what we saw doesn't say anything about the story. I think it seemed very sentimental with the soft focus, but what we need to know isn't there and that is why the promo doesn't work. The spare set design is also something that most beginners forget about. Look at what your house looks like or what houses on tv look like. Then figure out how to do your set dressing.

Why do I get dejavu all of a sudden.

 

[Utopia]

Good attitude but I am with the others on this one.

Here is my 2 cents - take it or leave it:

Your teaser isn't much of a teaser to me because it doesn't tell a story at all. I have absolutely no idea what that movie is going to be about. And that's the first thing you need to go after: Telling a story to the audience.

Oh, that's why.

*sigh*

 

[spinner]

...I apologize for agreeing......


-- spinner

 

[directorik]

12 days is enough, I planned everything when writing, and my assistant dir. made the schedule.

You will call me crazy and say I am going the wrong way, but I will make this as my first feature, before this I made a short film.

Don't get me wrong, but I really don't need more people saying to me it is impossible.

I'm with you on this, mnestevao. I, too, would get
discouraged by most people telling me not to even
do it, that my schedule is too short and that I shouldn't
rent when I really want to rent. But that's the nature
of a forum.

I encourage you to make this movie. Making a feature
in 12 days is not only possible, it's done all the time. I
think you have exactly the right attitude to make this
movie. You and I both know the advice was given with
the best intentions, but I also know that being told over
and over that you can't do it isn't what you want to hear.

I think you can do it. I don't think you can get other people
to donate or invest, but I believe you can make this movie
exactly the way you want to make it.

I'm looking forward to seeing it. I hope you will keep us
updated on your progress.

 

[Aegis]

Yep - a 12 day shoot is certainly doable - the key (as always) is in the planning. We're doing something similar on our feature but it's broken up over 18 days:

3 days on
2 off
3 on
2 off
4 on
2 off
2 on

Plus 3 days for recording V/O

The off days will be used for set modifications/redressing and rehearsals - it's gonna be one helluva ride.

If I recall correctly, Danny Draven's 'Ghost Month' was shot in 10 days (not a great film but proof that it can be done if properly planned...)