Finer Points on My Screenply.

[Birdman]

Okay, All,

Here's the chance to get back at that obnoxious Spec Script writer asshole that thinks he's going to change Holloywood with his very first script. Have your fun!

(1) I have reduced my script from 350 pages to 145. I am fairly sure I can get it to 130 pages ...but at 120 pages shit will get confused or the overall meaning is compromised. Is 130 pages that far off? Is that so much as to raise a red flag? ...Does 129 carry the psychological advantage of keeping it in the 120's?

(2) Science Fiction Technology: I have several new hi-tech devices in my screenplay. My question is do I give them a capital letter in my action blocks? Example: Do I write; "Fred puls out his Commatron and blows away the Proteus Deflector." ...or... "Fred pulss out his commatron and blows away the proteus deflector."

(3) I have a "Biblical Quote" I want to appear at the beginning (white text over black background. I would like to see an example of how this should be handled. I have seen several different versions online, but they seem confusing at best.

(4) After the credits have rolled I want to include a quick basic scene that sneaks in showing a flower. yah, I know, I know. I have zero camera commands in my script. Do I "FADE OUT" and then "FADE IN" again? What's the best way?

(5) I have nameless alien characters (Penatrons) that have assumed the bodies of some human characters in the script. The human characters have already been introduced. Here's my problem: Let's say ROBERT gets assimilated by a Penatron. When Robert was talking previously I always just used: ROBERT

...Now that he's dead and a Penatron has assumed his body, I am forced to write him in like this:

ROBERT (AS A PENATRON) ...or... ROBERT (PENATRON).

What I'm running into is a lot of space is getting used up adding in their assimilated names into the action script. Here's an example:

Robert (as a Penatron) grabs a plasma blaster and kills Billy (as a Penatron). Rodney (as a Penatron) and Mathew (as a Penatron) grab their plasma blasters and incinerate Robert (as a Penatron).

You get the point. All this (as a Penatron) crap is eating up space. What I did was each time a character was assimilated I qualified it within the script:

A Penatron kills Robert and assumes his body - ROBERT(P). Two more Penatrons kill Rodney and Mathew and assume their bodies as well - RODNEY(P) and Mathew(P).

Is this a good idea? Is there a better way to handle this?


Thanks for the help!
-Birdman

P.S. The examples I have given are not in my script. They are just hi-tech names I'm using for example.

 

[Birdman]

Talking strictly literally (which I'm not, as I'm typing, obviously), there should be no limit to the extent to which you take shit out of your script. If it's shit, take it out; and chances are, despite multiple passes, there is still a lot of unnecessary shit in there.

I'm an editor (novels), and I've seen so many books that the author presents as "the final draft" or "the finished article"; I then proceed to cut the length by (typically) 10-20% without any detriment to the story. The maxim kill your darlings is, I suspect, just as relevant to screenwriting as to prose fiction. A writer should never underestimate overlooking things that are unnecessary.

Give me a copy of any spec script and I reckon I could trim it by 10% without any damage to the plot, the structure or the characters.

Well, again ...There MUST BE A LIMIT at some point! Sure, I'm guessing there's a ton of scripts where 10% more could be removed without affecting the plot. But what about the scripts where an adequate amount of reduction has already been accomplished? What about those scripts where if more was removed it would take away some of the 'feel" of the story?

"Bob shoots Roy. Joe grabs gun. Paul runs. Jerry hides under desk."

...Who wants to read a script written like that? I know a producer might be fine with it, but with just a few scant additional words it could be made a little easier on the eyes.

"Bob blows away Roy. Joe leaps for a gun. Paul scampers while Jerry cowers under a desk."

...Isn't there an obligation to at least TRY to attract some attention to one's script?

-Birdman

 

[Will Vincent]

But sometimes all you need to say is "Paul runs"

EDIT: Or better yet...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-RuIsxGX4M

 

[rayw]

You seem very serious about this so my advice to let go of your concerns if you want to grow as a writer.

...I'm very serious about this Screenplay, yes, but I am not planning as "growing as a writer". I am a painter (oils). I am only writing this script because I know in my heart it's good. Friends and wife tell me I'm an excellent writer, ...so I'm giving this script its life.

I also sense this feeling of seriousness on your behalf, BMan.
I think it's safe to say that several of us here will make available to you whatever legit resources we have.

This includes you writing a few shorts, four to ten pages, to have experienced screenwriters provide peer review.

 

[Birdman]

I also sense this feeling of seriousness on your behalf, BMan.
I think it's safe to say that several of us here will make available to you whatever legit resources we have.

This includes you writing a few shorts, four to ten pages, to have experienced screenwriters provide peer review.

I have gleaned a LOT of valuable data in these posts. Formatting a complex TV montage was resolved in these threads. I would be up for a four to ten page short. As soon as I get this sucker down to 130 I'll be up for the challenge.

-Birdman

 

[DIY]

"Bob shoots Roy. Joe grabs gun. Paul runs. Jerry hides under desk."

"Bob blows away Roy. Joe leaps for a gun. Paul scampers while Jerry cowers under a desk."

Should be rewritten as:

"Bob shoots Roy. Joe grabs a gun."

All the actors in the scene (if they know their character and their goals) should know how to react when Bob shoots Roy and there is no need to individually direct everyone. If you are directing every actor in your script then it can truly be cut in half.

Well, again ...There MUST BE A LIMIT at some point! Sure, I'm guessing there's a ton of scripts where 10% more could be removed without affecting the plot. But what about the scripts where an adequate amount of reduction has already been accomplished? What about those scripts where if more was removed it would take away some of the 'feel" of the story?

There is no limit. Again, you must trust the director and actors to get the feel of the story and sometimes it won't be what you intended. If you read a spec script and compare it to a shooting script or even any script to the finished movie you will see it. One of the best things I ever did was read the script to Juno before I saw the movie. During the movie I saw many differences including how the audience reacted. Less is more.

 

[mlesemann]

Even beyond the question of changes when you get to a shooting script, there's all the changes in editing.

 

[maz]

Well, again ...There MUST BE A LIMIT at some point! Sure, I'm guessing there's a ton of scripts where 10% more could be removed without affecting the plot. But what about the scripts where an adequate amount of reduction has already been accomplished? What about those scripts where if more was removed it would take away some of the 'feel" of the story?

Well, yeah, there is a limit, but if you want to have a screenplay you hope to sell and that translates into a reasonable length movie, then you have to take that as your limit, and adjust your story appropriately; otherwise, why even bother cutting it down from 350 pages?

You have a 130 page script, and despite not having seen a line of it, I predict I could get it down to 110 without losing any of the 'feel'. And, again, if you're the only person who has participated in the "adequate amount of reduction", then I virtually guarantee that the reduction that has taken place is inadequate. It's just the way writing/editing works.

 

[Birdman]

Okay, this is what was used as an example:

"Bob blows away Roy. Joe leaps for a gun. Paul scampers while Jerry cowers under a desk."

And this was your response:

Should be rewritten as:

"Bob shoots Roy. Joe grabs a gun."

All the actors in the scene (if they know their character and their goals) should know how to react when Bob shoots Roy and there is no need to individually direct everyone. If you are directing every actor in your script then it can truly be cut in half.

So the reader automatically "knows" that Paul will run away ...and that Jerry will cower under the desk ...because the actors already know how to properly react?

But when Jerry is hiding under the desk he finds the briefcase full of money that Roy was hiding from Bob. And when Paul runs away he encounters the mob boss coming up the steps.

DIY, You're telling a frickin' story, guy! Your job is to design a movie on paper. YOU decide who gets shot, who ends up being a pussy, who runs where and why.

There is no limit. Again, you must trust the director and actors to get the feel of the story and sometimes it won't be what you intended. If you read a spec script and compare it to a shooting script or even any script to the finished movie you will see it. One of the best things I ever did was read the script to Juno before I saw the movie. During the movie I saw many differences including how the audience reacted. Less is more.

You mentioned that my "Logic was flawed" in an earlier post ...and here you are saying, "There is no limit" on how much can be edited out of the script. Your phrase, by it's own wording, is flawed. There IS a limit! There MUST BE a limit! That limit is down to "Page #1". That is physically the LIMIT to what you can edit out of a script. So anything between "Page #1" and "Page #120" is the threshold for editing.

Now I will agree that writing "Bob looks shocked" or "Paula screams" or "Joe grabs his shoulder" after he gets shot could be edited out ...but sacrificing where characters go after an event has happened is a mistake. It's YOUR JOB to decide where they go! If a director feels Jerry is better off hiding in a closet than under a desk ..,Fine! Then he can find the briefcase full of money in the closet. But if Jerry doesn't find the briefcase full of money and that money is the ransom money for the protagonist ....how do your expect your script move forward?

-Birdman

 

[joejohn123]

Birdman/fartman,

I have to write a joke, sometimes seesuccess .
But, in your's case , You always end up writing 100 % successfull!!!

suggestion,

Story stretch from one point / page to 5/5 pages , later to 70/110.
In your case !!! 320 to 180!!!
May be story has lost it's track.
Trying to provide sufficient space for each and every character prominence and reasonable justification for scene/situation usually makes it happen in story building.

bUt here, Bible quote and aliens !!! gun shots !!!!

Even people from that par of the world , don't buy this shit.
They are these days very good in science, They check loop holes than any body.Screeniit for alabama!!

 

[Birdman]

Joejohn123,

God love ya, ...I have no idea what you just wrote.

-Fartman

 

[DIY]

Birdman, this is not a novel. You are seriously overestimating your role in producing a film. Your writing will not improve until you realize this. I suggest you read action spec scripts to see what I am talking about.

 

[Birdman]

Birdman, this is not a novel. You are seriously overestimating your role in producing a film. Your writing will not improve until you realize this. I suggest you read action spec scripts to see what I am talking about.

What do you suggest I do for handling pages 83 through 94 of my script where the Protagonist is facing down six alien operatives? What words would you remove and how would you change the dialogue?

-Birdman

 

[rayw]

And watch a few dozen director/producer/actor/writer DVD commentaries.

They you'll get a much more comprehensive understanding of the value of a writer.

 

[Inarius]

I see the screenplay is Sci-Fi, but is that drama or action? Drama movies have slow pace. Every written action takes time on screen. There are glances, expressions, emotions... things improvised by actors. Actions are more eventful, more written actions. Everything goes fast. I think dramatic events don't need to be much described. If Bob needs 1 minute on screen to find the courage to tell Ann he loves her, it doesn't need to be one script page. Actors need to do the job. After all, they get paid more than writers.

 

[FantasySciFi]

1. Birdman has a passion for his project and I respect that. After four passes, he's said he's cut it down from 350 to 140. That is significant. He knows what the "ideal" is. There are stories that take more time to tell. The trick to screenwriting is learning what parts, while they make for interest, are not relevant. That takes experience which comes practice or an outside view.

2. One's writing improves every time one writes. To be clear, just because it is long does not mean it's bad. It may make it harder to sell, but I've seen 130 page scripts that were picked up. The more experience you get, the more streamlined your scripts become. I've picked up older scripts I've written and groaned at how outlandishly bad they were. Lots of newbie mistakes. However, some were interesting enough that it has been worth dusting them off and re-writing them.

3. He's already stated that he's going to send it off to be professionally reviewed. I think that is a good move. Their feedback may echo or refute what he's heard from us giving him a fairer sense of our credibility.

And to be fair, not having seen his script, it could be the exception. I allow that may be the case. 120 pages is a guide (and often a preference), not a rule. It's okay to break the rules, but you need to be damn sure you're good and understand why the rule is there in the first place. In most cases, "rules" are just "guidelines" for newbies to color inside. When you read lots of scripts, you quickly get the sense that "industry standard" isn't quite so standard as you're led to believe. But this is particularly true when you are reading scripts written by writer/directors who are freer to break the rules since they're shooting the film.

 

[Inarius]

When you read lots of scripts, you quickly get the sense that "industry standard" isn't quite so standard as you're led to believe. But this is particularly true when you are reading scripts written by writer/directors who are freer to break the rules since they're shooting the film.

I think when one like Steven Spielberg writes a script to sell (there's no reason he would do that today, but suppose he does), he can write it handwriting in Japanese, and producers will still buy it, translate rewrite it and eat Sushi. Because he's Steven Spielberg.

 

[Birdman]

The only one who is taking everything into consideration is FSF. Nobody has seen my script, so there is no way to pre-judge that I'm using too many descriptive words. DIY has pre-determined just about everything regarding my script without so much as seeing the title page.

I have been working on this screenplay since late October. Then I get something like this as a response to my thread:

Birdman, this is not a novel.

...C'mon, guy! Do you seriously think I don't know that?

Just about every "Script Formatting" link I've gone to and the overwhelming majority of scripts I've read are using far more descriptive action elements than I have. I have a very "staccato type" word style now. What I DO have is a 5-act screenplay that's not enough for two movies and possibly too much for a single movie.

If I were a professional script writer (being paid to write this script) 130 to 140 minutes would be easily believable. A large chunk is spent on planet Earth with minimal special effects, so the typical sci-fi budget wouldn't apply. But JUST BECAUSE I am a Spec Script writer, everyone ASSUMES I must be doing something wrong, using too many words, "think it's a novel" or simply just don't have a solid grip on what a screenplay is all about.

Superman Man of Steel's run-time was 143 minutes.

...Did they use too many words in their script? Is that what happened?

-Birdman

 

[rayw]

Superman Man of Steel's run-time was 143 minutes.

...Did they use too many words in their script? Is that what happened?

According to the IMDB writing credits...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770828/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_wr#writers

Writing Credits (WGA)  
  David S. Goyer	...	 (screenplay)
 
  David S. Goyer	...	 (story) &
  Christopher Nolan	...	 (story)
 
  Jerry Siegel	...	 (Superman created by) &
  Joe Shuster	...	 (Superman created by)

I found the Siegel & Shuster screenplay which clocks in at 115.5 pages.
http://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/SupermanManofSteel.pdf

I can't locate the more legit Goyer draft, but it would be very interesting to see.




ANOTHER... way of looking at pages = minutes of screen time is to consider the production cost per screen minute.

Surely you've perused the production budgets of you recent fave and semi-tolerable scifi fliks.
http://www.movieweb.com/movies/2013/sci-fi

Here's the cost per screen minute of the most popular films involving heavy sci fi (silly sci fi lite films are not included).

Looks like these average a little over a million dollars per screen minute, or $20,000 per line.

When readers and producers look at any spec screenplay they're wondering "How much can this story probably bring in at the box office, foreign and domestic, and how much is this f#cker gonna cost the studio to make - per page."

You, me, and anybody can just pound out words by the thousands with little consequence.
The people that gotta foot subsequent bills feel quite differently.




And yet another way of looking at it...
... is to consider all of those "deleted scenes" we see on DVD/BRs.
Those were scripted, pre-pro-ed, rehearsed, shot, all effected up, audio posted, edited... and then ultimately ditched.
Uhh... That was some serious money just tossed right out the theatrical showing window.

AND you gotta consider the cuts the studio demands and the director may or may not quibble over.
AND you gotta consider the cuts the MPAA makes.
AND you gotta consider the cuts the distributor makes.
AND you gotta consider the eventual director vs theatrical vs unrated cuts.

So... !
So... !
What. Does. This. All. Mean?
It means any given story has multiple possible story lines and tangents which can be in- or excluded.




LET GOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!


Write gooood bonnnnnnes.

Those are all that will remain after the pig goes through the python.

Seeeee the truth in what I'm saying.
Step back for a moment.
Walk out of the room.
Take the trash out to the street.
And see that, inevitably, IF your screenplay is that 1 in 100,000 this year's spec screenplays that a studio picks up, IF your screenplay doesn't languish in development hell, IF your screenplay doesn't die on the cutting room floor, IF your screenplay ever gets out the studio doors - it may very well have some significant structural changes.

Not every GD clever scene you have poured into bits and bytes of a file will survive.


Somewhere there is a healthy sense of "F#ckit. It doesn't matter. Truncate this somehow. Four characters become three. A whole planet disappears. Plot point G gets melded with plot point D. Sub-stories are ditched as casualties of screenwriting for the sake of the all mighty production budget."

$20k per line.
That's what you're typing out.

How many lines did I just type out?
About $3.5mil worth.

 

[Birdman]

One of the scenes has my main character and her co-star ordering a burger at a fast food joint.

Another has NSA agents going through a house.

Several scenes involve the two main characters driving cross country in a vintage sports car (that doesn't get wrecked).

They stop at a gas station ...and some shit happens (no explosions, sorry).

There's a big scene where they are running around in the Navada desert.

They spend some time in a government facility.

There are some helicopters! ..Uh ohhhhh!


...I'm having trouble finding these types of scenes listed in your 8 and 9 figure Sci-Fi estimates? Should I maybe lose the burger joint scene to save a little cash?

Birdman

P.S. You know, they could have saved a lot of money in "Man of Steel" if they just cut out all that "flying around" and shit.

 

[Will Vincent]

Those cost breakdowns aren't the best gauge, since that's just the 'reported' budget, which is often much higher than then real budget, and a goodly portion of those budgets go toward post production, distribution, and advertising.