Finer Points on My Screenply.

[Birdman]

Okay, All,

Here's the chance to get back at that obnoxious Spec Script writer asshole that thinks he's going to change Holloywood with his very first script. Have your fun!

(1) I have reduced my script from 350 pages to 145. I am fairly sure I can get it to 130 pages ...but at 120 pages shit will get confused or the overall meaning is compromised. Is 130 pages that far off? Is that so much as to raise a red flag? ...Does 129 carry the psychological advantage of keeping it in the 120's?

(2) Science Fiction Technology: I have several new hi-tech devices in my screenplay. My question is do I give them a capital letter in my action blocks? Example: Do I write; "Fred puls out his Commatron and blows away the Proteus Deflector." ...or... "Fred pulss out his commatron and blows away the proteus deflector."

(3) I have a "Biblical Quote" I want to appear at the beginning (white text over black background. I would like to see an example of how this should be handled. I have seen several different versions online, but they seem confusing at best.

(4) After the credits have rolled I want to include a quick basic scene that sneaks in showing a flower. yah, I know, I know. I have zero camera commands in my script. Do I "FADE OUT" and then "FADE IN" again? What's the best way?

(5) I have nameless alien characters (Penatrons) that have assumed the bodies of some human characters in the script. The human characters have already been introduced. Here's my problem: Let's say ROBERT gets assimilated by a Penatron. When Robert was talking previously I always just used: ROBERT

...Now that he's dead and a Penatron has assumed his body, I am forced to write him in like this:

ROBERT (AS A PENATRON) ...or... ROBERT (PENATRON).

What I'm running into is a lot of space is getting used up adding in their assimilated names into the action script. Here's an example:

Robert (as a Penatron) grabs a plasma blaster and kills Billy (as a Penatron). Rodney (as a Penatron) and Mathew (as a Penatron) grab their plasma blasters and incinerate Robert (as a Penatron).

You get the point. All this (as a Penatron) crap is eating up space. What I did was each time a character was assimilated I qualified it within the script:

A Penatron kills Robert and assumes his body - ROBERT(P). Two more Penatrons kill Rodney and Mathew and assume their bodies as well - RODNEY(P) and Mathew(P).

Is this a good idea? Is there a better way to handle this?


Thanks for the help!
-Birdman

P.S. The examples I have given are not in my script. They are just hi-tech names I'm using for example.

 

[rayw]

...but I MUST believe that it will be successful. If a script writer doesn't feel this way then they are wasting their time.

And if you must feel that way then I would be a lesser man for trying to convince you otherwise.

Fly free, young man! Fly!

 

[Birdman]

Life on the ground, or life in the sky. ...Choose your destiny!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YEyzvtMx3s


-Birdman

 

[rayw]

http://bighugelabs.com/motivator.php

http://www.zazzle.com/motivational+posters

 

[Inarius]

How did you get to 350 Pages, Birdman? Do you put a trilogy into one movie?

 

[Inarius]

Life on the ground, or life in the sky. ...Choose your destiny!

Life in space

 

[Birdman]

How did you get to 350 Pages, Birdman? Do you put a trilogy into one movie?

...I started typing everything that came into my mind. I realized at page 160 (when my Protagonist was 1/3rd the way to her goal) that I needed to dial it back some. The good side was I has a ton of scenes to pick and choose for the completed draft. I was more able to connect all the dots.

On the "Off Topic" side. ...How can you watch that Pelican video and not believe a higher power is at play?

- Birdman

 

[Inarius]

...I started typing everything that came into my mind. I realized at page 160 (when my Protagonist was 1/3rd the way to her goal) that I needed to dial it back some. The good side was I has a ton of scenes to pick and choose for the completed draft. I was more able to connect all the dots.

Isn't it easier to make an outline first? I mean, explaining each scene in one sentence, or giving them titles to remember their flow.

On the "Off Topic" side. ...How can you watch that Pelican video and not believe a higher power is at play?

It's inspiring that people give their time and effort and teach that Pelican to fly.

 

[DIY]

I was probably the same as Birdman at first, writing down everything. As I got much better and got feedback from people who actually sold scripts I learned how much unnecessary stuff was in my screenplays.

Birdman, your script should probably be 80 pages since I'm guessing you have quite a bit of action in it. The sci-fi I am currently working on will probably only need 60 pages. Take a step back and think of your scenes with and without them, I think you will find a lot can be skipped.

One amazing benefit I've learned as I move to directing is how undetailed I need to write out my script and just go with the notes. In fact, I plan on doing a lot of improv lines and just have script dialogue as backup.

 

[Will Vincent]

Birdman, have you considered the possibility that your story might be better suited to a novel?

That may not be something you've considered, but at that length, you might do well to write it as a novel, and then adapt said novel to a screenplay. Bonus, you now have a novel to shop around and/or self-publish too.

 

[FantasySciFi]

Now you and RayW are at odds on the input. Ray says "No quotes around the text", but your example has quotes. ...Which way is correct?

I think the issue here is one of what appears on the screen. In the script, the quotes help to delineate the text to appear. To be honest, it was the way I was taught. How it is actually rendered on the screen is a design decision made by production staff, not the screenwriter. Usually they will not include the quotes on the screen. In David Trottier's Screenwriting Bible, he states that it should always be in quotes.

Regarding "I want"

Well OF COURSE "I WANT"!!! It's my frickin' script! Who the hell else is going to want it? Bob, or maybe Sally who lives down the street? Should I go ask them what to put in my script? A scene design element in a screenplay is a lot different than a camera cue or a song selection. Both of the items I was asking about were SCENES. Scenes are what make up a movie. ...

I appreciate what you're saying. You are still directing from within the script by telling how it is supposed to appear. That's the part that will get you into trouble. It's okay to write what you see in your head and suggest shots. For me, "I want" translates to "It's gotta be like this" not "How do I show/convey ...?". I'm not the one who's judging your script, I'm giving you feedback on the criteria. If you're writing this to produce/direct yourself by all means go for it. If not, my suggestions only meant you need to evaluate the relevance to your story. Lucas got away with the stylized scroll because it was his project. Some people think starting with quotations is a bit overdone, though I think it depends on the project and genre. You can't please everyone, so you need to please yourself. Sometimes you walk a fine line. When reading successful scripts, be sure that it's not by a writer/director as that will give a false impression.

There are art directors who do the scene design. There are post-production editors and studios which design the credits. There are companies which are often hired to make the trailer. The last two groups involved in post-production usually never see the script only the final footage.

There's this perception that all readers are hardnosed about technicalities. That's not the case, though, admittedly there are a few. However, it's when there are a preponderance of basic mistakes in spelling, grammar, formatting, lack of character development and story flaws that really lead to immediate passes. The first three are easy to correct. My caveat for you was that what you put in the script should be directly relevant to the story and not the writer's "internal directorial debut". The spec script is a blueprint, not the shooting script. Good luck.

 

[rayw]

 

[Birdman]

I was probably the same as Birdman at first, writing down everything. As I got much better and got feedback from people who actually sold scripts I learned how much unnecessary stuff was in my screenplays.

Birdman, your script should probably be 80 pages since I'm guessing you have quite a bit of action in it. The sci-fi I am currently working on will probably only need 60 pages. Take a step back and think of your scenes with and without them, I think you will find a lot can be skipped.

One amazing benefit I've learned as I move to directing is how undetailed I need to write out my script and just go with the notes. In fact, I plan on doing a lot of improv lines and just have script dialogue as backup.

...There is no way in hell I could make it to 80 pages! In my opinion, if a person doesn't have at least 90 pages of script, then they don't have a complete story fit for a movie. How do you expect a producer to make a mainstream movie from a 60 minute script? People dropping $15 for tickets these days want at least an hour and a half of entertainment.

Birdman, have you considered the possibility that your story might be better suited to a novel?

That may not be something you've considered, but at that length, you might do well to write it as a novel, and then adapt said novel to a screenplay. Bonus, you now have a novel to shop around and/or self-publish too.

...Yes, I have! I'm doing both. I think there are several advantages to having both a novel and a screenplay attached to the same story. In addition, there is an added level of copyright protection.

For Ray:

-Birdman

 

[DIY]

...There is no way in hell I could make it to 80 pages! In my opinion, if a person doesn't have at least 90 pages of script, then they don't have a complete story fit for a movie. How do you expect a producer to make a mainstream movie from a 60 minute script? People dropping $15 for tickets these days want at least an hour and a half of entertainment.

I don't think you understand what I said. Given a lot of action sequences in your script, it should be about 80 pages for a 90-100 minute film.

Basically, you don't need to describe everything. That's the first epiphany for me as a screenwriter. Trust the actor and director to figure things out. Look at how actual spec scripts are written.

Now, once you get it down to 80 pages, you will probably find new scenes to add and get back to that magical 90 pages. Trust me, less is really more -- best advice I ever got. I've done this and your script will be much better for it.

 

[rayw]

B, you probably oughtta post about two or three pages as a PDF (change names and key points if you feel the need) and several of us will likely identify what an agent will red line.

Believe me, when I first started writing I got S L A M M E D for novely writing.
I gave so many "WTF?!"s it wasn't funny.
Took about a year of active shorts writing to understand what is and isn't necessary.
Now... I just let it go to the point of very sparse brevity.
It doesn't matter.

Good bones.
You want your story to have good bones because that's all that's gonna remain after the pig goes through the python.

 

[Inarius]

You want your story to have good bones because that's all that's gonna remain after the pig goes through the python.

Wow! I loved this analogy! Pig is the screenplay, which has a good and delicious meat, and python is the producer (production company), which devours everything and leaves almost nothing to the writer.

 

[Birdman]

I don't think you understand what I said. Given a lot of action sequences in your script, it should be about 80 pages for a 90-100 minute film.

Basically, you don't need to describe everything. That's the first epiphany for me as a screenwriter. Trust the actor and director to figure things out. Look at how actual spec scripts are written.

Now, once you get it down to 80 pages, you will probably find new scenes to add and get back to that magical 90 pages. Trust me, less is really more -- best advice I ever got. I've done this and your script will be much better for it.

...Okay, I understand your thinking. I have 48% action and 39% dialogue. The remaining 13% is composed of scene headings and other related scripting. No camera cues and scant parenthetical use. I plan on taking out 15 pages minimum from my 145 page total, but I am being truthful when I say that removing scenes at this point would be dangerous to the overall effect.

Many of these scenes are directly related to how the main character reacts in the final act. She "learns" from all of her experiences and applies them in battle during the final scenes. I feel this has been done in a very smart and interesting way.

Bear in mind that I have already gone through four passes in reducing it all down to 145 pages.

B, you probably oughtta post about two or three pages as a PDF (change names and key points if you feel the need) and several of us will likely identify what an agent will red line.

...I'd love to, but at age 52 I've learned that anything I post in public will end up compromised. I have been able to post "unrelated examples" here all along, ...and its safer to just stay in that mode.

Believe me, when I first started writing I got S L A M M E D for novely writing.
I gave so many "WTF?!"s it wasn't funny.
Took about a year of active shorts writing to understand what is and isn't necessary.
Now... I just let it go to the point of very sparse brevity.
It doesn't matter.

...I went from paragraph-form text to using a quick, broken sentence structure similar to Morse Code. I have developed a style that I like that is very sparse ...but that's as far as I'm going with it. I DO have a story to tell and I'm the one telling it (right now). If a director wants to change shit later, then that's his prerogative. But the operative word is "change". He's going to have to "change" what I have written and not "add in".

Good bones.
You want your story to have good bones because that's all that's gonna remain after the pig goes through the python.

-Birdman

 

[DIY]

...I'd love to, but at age 52 I've learned that anything I post in public will end up compromised. I have been able to post "unrelated examples" here all along, ...and its safer to just stay in that mode.

Compromised? A few pages is not a story, just like a synopsis is not a screenplay. Until a full screenplay is posted it's just an idea that probably has been done a million times in a variety of genres and angles.

I've posted my full script publicly on Amazon Studios for all the world to see and had total strangers review them. End result -- I tightened up my script and improved it a ton. If you're so worried, I'd skip screenwriting contests too.

It really doesn't matter how many passes you've done, I've once managed near complete 4 rewrites in 2 months because my screenplay was to be read to a live audience by an acting group. Your work is just beginning and at 130 pages I would probably dismiss it as not worth reading. Yes, you think it may be necessary but in reality it's excessive and there are hundreds of better and shorter ways to do it.

You seem very serious about this so my advice to let go of your concerns if you want to grow as a writer.

 

[Birdman]

Compromised? A few pages is not a story, just like a synopsis is not a screenplay. Until a full screenplay is posted it's just an idea that probably has been done a million times in a variety of genres and angles. ...I've posted my full script publicly on Amazon Studios for all the world to see and had total strangers review them. End result -- I tightened up my script and improved it a ton. If you're so worried, I'd skip screenwriting contests too..

...I wouldn't be submitting it to a contest without it first being copyrighted. Once I have it copyrighted I'd feel comfortable posting it on a billboard. I have a line of "avid readers" waitning for my first draft including an English Teacher wife (who is ruthless).

I wouldn't feel comfortable posting it at this point even if it was copyrighted. I'm currently deleting unnecessary information and keep finding things to improve as I go. It's a month away from being a true "first draft".

It really doesn't matter how many passes you've done, I've once managed near complete 4 rewrites in 2 months because my screenplay was to be read to a live audience by an acting group. Your work is just beginning and at 130 pages I would probably dismiss it as not worth reading. Yes, you think it may be necessary but in reality it's excessive and there are hundreds of better and shorter ways to do it.

...130 is down from 350 pages I wouldn't subject anyone to it yet either (especially on a public forum). As far as what is necessary and what is excessive is concerned, logic states that there MUST come a point (a breaking point) where you have to stop taking shit out and keep what you have. Otherwise every script would only be one page long.

Just as 130 may seem "excessive", someone with a 90 page script "may" have had a better script had they added in some extra information and had a 105 page script.

You seem very serious about this so my advice to let go of your concerns if you want to grow as a writer.

...I'm very serious about this Screenplay, yes, but I am not planning as "growing as a writer". I am a painter (oils). I am only writing this script because I know in my heart it's good. Friends and wife tell me I'm an excellent writer, ...so I'm giving this script its life.

Thank you for the input!
-Birdman

 

[DIY]

Just as 130 may seem "excessive", someone with a 90 page script "may" have had a better script had they added in some extra information and had a 105 page script.

That is flawed logic and that's what's holding you back from cutting more out. I'll leave it at that, some things can only be experienced and not taught. Good luck and positive energy to you!

 

[maz]

As far as what is necessary and what is excessive is concerned, logic states that there MUST come a point (a breaking point) where you have to stop taking shit out and keep what you have. Otherwise every script would only be one page long.

Talking strictly literally (which I'm not, as I'm typing, obviously), there should be no limit to the extent to which you take shit out of your script. If it's shit, take it out; and chances are, despite multiple passes, there is still a lot of unnecessary shit in there.

I'm an editor (novels), and I've seen so many books that the author presents as "the final draft" or "the finished article"; I then proceed to cut the length by (typically) 10-20% without any detriment to the story. The maxim kill your darlings is, I suspect, just as relevant to screenwriting as to prose fiction. A writer should never underestimate overlooking things that are unnecessary.

Give me a copy of any spec script and I reckon I could trim it by 10% without any damage to the plot, the structure or the characters.