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Finer Points on My Screenply.

Birdman

Birdman

Okay, All,

Here's the chance to get back at that obnoxious Spec Script writer asshole that thinks he's going to change Holloywood with his very first script. Have your fun!

(1) I have reduced my script from 350 pages to 145. I am fairly sure I can get it to 130 pages ...but at 120 pages shit will get confused or the overall meaning is compromised. Is 130 pages that far off? Is that so much as to raise a red flag? ...Does 129 carry the psychological advantage of keeping it in the 120's?

(2) Science Fiction Technology: I have several new hi-tech devices in my screenplay. My question is do I give them a capital letter in my action blocks? Example: Do I write; "Fred puls out his Commatron and blows away the Proteus Deflector." ...or... "Fred pulss out his commatron and blows away the proteus deflector."

(3) I have a "Biblical Quote" I want to appear at the beginning (white text over black background. I would like to see an example of how this should be handled. I have seen several different versions online, but they seem confusing at best.

(4) After the credits have rolled I want to include a quick basic scene that sneaks in showing a flower. yah, I know, I know. I have zero camera commands in my script. Do I "FADE OUT" and then "FADE IN" again? What's the best way?

(5) I have nameless alien characters (Penatrons) that have assumed the bodies of some human characters in the script. The human characters have already been introduced. Here's my problem: Let's say ROBERT gets assimilated by a Penatron. When Robert was talking previously I always just used: ROBERT

...Now that he's dead and a Penatron has assumed his body, I am forced to write him in like this:

ROBERT (AS A PENATRON) ...or... ROBERT (PENATRON).

What I'm running into is a lot of space is getting used up adding in their assimilated names into the action script. Here's an example:

Robert (as a Penatron) grabs a plasma blaster and kills Billy (as a Penatron). Rodney (as a Penatron) and Mathew (as a Penatron) grab their plasma blasters and incinerate Robert (as a Penatron).

You get the point. All this (as a Penatron) crap is eating up space. What I did was each time a character was assimilated I qualified it within the script:

A Penatron kills Robert and assumes his body - ROBERT(P). Two more Penatrons kill Rodney and Mathew and assume their bodies as well - RODNEY(P) and Mathew(P).

Is this a good idea? Is there a better way to handle this?


Thanks for the help!
-Birdman

P.S. The examples I have given are not in my script. They are just hi-tech names I'm using for example.
 
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Birdman said:
(1) I have reduced my script from 350 pages to 145. I am fairly sure I can get it to 130 pages ...but at 120 pages shit will get confused or the overall meaning is compromised. Is 130 pages that far off? Is that so much as to raise a red flag? ...Does 129 carry the psychological advantage of keeping it in the 120's?
Spec script, eh?
Yeah, well...
You and I are sharply aware of recent conversations on this, so... lettuce just move beyond that.
Take my 2¢, or not.
That said - keep it under 120 pages, or whatever your agent advises. And he/she is really the only person that'll matter.

(2) Science Fiction Technology: I have several new hi-tech devices in my screenplay. My question is do I give them a capital letter in my action blocks?
No.
The director/producer/set designer will have the responsibility to figure out what they look like and what they do.
Only a idiot thinks a commatron/pronoundeflector/adverbalizer is a real tool they can go find on ebay or amazon.com.
Idiots will not be employed at any producer capable of funding this SFX-athon story.
Your inventions remain regular nouns, not proper nouns requiring capitalization.
Regular rules of grammar apply here.

(3) I have a "Biblical Quote" I want to appear at the beginning (white text over black background. I would like to see an example of how this should be handled. I have seen several different versions online, but they seem confusing at best.
Code: 
White over black:
		Thou shalt not kill.
						Exodus 20:13

				A week later...

		And Moses said unto the children of Levi, Thus 
		saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his 
		sword by his side, and go in and out from gate 
		to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man 
		his brother, and every man his companion, and 
		every man his neighbour.

		And the children of Levi did according to the 
		word of Moses: and there fell of the people that 
		day about three thousand men.
						Exodus 32:27-28

(4) After the credits have rolled I want to include a quick basic scene that sneaks in showing a flower. yah, I know, I know. I have zero camera commands in my script. Do I "FADE OUT" and then "FADE IN" again? What's the best way?
Don't.
But if you insist - yeah, do it that way.
But your agent's gonna have kittens over it.

(5) I have nameless alien characters (Penatrons) that have assumed the bodies of some human characters in the script. The human characters have already been introduced. Here's my problem: Let's say ROBERT gets assimilated by a Penatron. When Robert was talking previously I always just used: ROBERT

...Now that he's dead and a Penatron has assumed his body, I am forced to write him in like this:

Is this a good idea? Is there a better way to handle this?
Just use a slash for the first time: ROBERT/PENATRON and ROBERT thereafter.
The reader IS expected to pay some attention
Click to expand...
What happened to that screenwriting site you linked to the other day?

Also: http://www.scribd.com/doc/12721428/Professional-Screenplay-Formatting-Guide


FYI, there is a space after an ellipsis, not before with no space after.
130 pages ...but at 120 ← Wrong.
Click to expand...
130 pages... but at 120 ← Right. ;)
 
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rayw said:
What happened to that screenwriting site you linked to the other day?

Also: http://www.scribd.com/doc/12721428/Professional-Screenplay-Formatting-Guide
Click to expand...

...It doesn't cover alien abductions and scenes after a movie is over.


rayw said:
FYI, there is a space after an ellipsis, not before with no space after.
Click to expand...

...On IndieTalk my ellipses go wherever I want them to go ..........and LOTS of them! My script has only a few and correctly formatted.

rayw said:
130 pages... but at 120 ← Right. ;)
Click to expand...

...Most people strain to reach 120 pages. I'm straining to come down to 120 pages.

Also: On your "biblical Quote" example .......................Shouldn't there be quote marks around the quoted Biblical text?

Inarius said:
Is this topic serious? Or I missed the irony? :)

P.S. Bible is the best Fantasy book ever! :)
Click to expand...

...No harm done. Although I'm surprised, you being in Israel, that you consider the Bible a "fantasy book".

Thanks All,
Birdman
 
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Birdman said:
Also: On your "biblical Quote" example... Shouldn't there be quote marks around the quoted Biblical text?
Click to expand...
Nope.

It's a title card in a film.

Doesn't matter, anyway.
It's a spec script. It's gonna be butchered by the director/producer that pays for the rights to do whatever they want to it.

Again, your agent will advise.
 
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rayw said:
Nope.

It's a title card in a film.

Doesn't matter, anyway.
It's a spec script. It's gonna be butchered by the director/producer that pays for the rights to do whatever they want to it.

Again, your agent will advise.
Click to expand...


Did you ever read this post by chance?

ahennessey said:
It is sometimes beneficial to read screenplays that were sold on spec and make note of how they were changed for the eventual movie.

If you read the opening pages of the spec script for Wedding Crashers, you will see that it opens on a law firm office with a lawyer negotiating a personal injury claim on the phone. Then it cuts to his friend in a different office listening to a client, a woman getting divorced, lament how she thought marriage was forever and an "institution." Meanwhile, the lawyer is listening, but his eye keeps wandering to his hot secretary walking by. Finally he explains to his client why marriage is a fake institution.

Below is the actual filmed opening of the movie Wedding Crashers, it has the director's commentary. It is quite different from the opening in the screenplay. Note the changes that he made and the importance he puts on the opening and closing images of the film. The commentary is interesting because the director references wanting to keep the ideas the screenwriters had in their original script.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLWTFhiqYog
Click to expand...


...True, they changes SOME of it, but kept the screenplay writer's intent ...and VISION.

-Birdman
 
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Birdman said:
Okay, All,

Here's the chance to get back at that obnoxious Spec Script writer asshole that thinks he's going to change Holloywood with his very first script. Have your fun!

(1) I have reduced my script from 350 pages to 145. I am fairly sure I can get it to 130 pages ...but at 120 pages shit will get confused or the overall meaning is compromised. Is 130 pages that far off? Is that so much as to raise a red flag? ...Does 129 carry the psychological advantage of keeping it in the 120's?
It depends on your story. I'm not trying to be hypocritical but if the story takes 130 pages to tell well, then that's its length. If a script is a page turner, I'm not going to quibble about 10 pages. Most pictures stay within 120 pages. Kudos for getting it down from 350. I'm sure it wasn't easy but a 2 hour film is nicer than a 6 hour film.

(2) Science Fiction Technology: I have several new hi-tech devices in my screenplay. My question is do I give them a capital letter in my action blocks? Example: Do I write; "Fred puls out his Commatron and blows away the Proteus Deflector." ...or... "Fred pulss out his commatron and blows away the proteus deflector."
No, you don't need to capitalize it. As a general practice, it is sometimes helpful to put the device name in all caps the first time you describe it. This helps the AD identify it when doing a script breakdown. After that, it's just like a 'gun'.

(3) I have a "Biblical Quote" I want to appear at the beginning (white text over black background. I would like to see an example of how this should be handled. I have seen several different versions online, but they seem confusing at best.
Not to be critical, but re-read your statement "I want ...". Are you the producer/director for this film? How it is visually rendered is their department. They might choose to use some cool AfterEffect trick with ink and sand. The important thing is the idea you want to convey to whomever makes the film.
Code: 
BLACK SCREEN

SUPER: "Before the path is chosen, the Journey has already
              begun.    Nirak - Vulcan Philosopher"

                                                                                 FADE IN
...


(4) After the credits have rolled I want to include a quick basic scene that sneaks in showing a flower. yah, I know, I know. I have zero camera commands in my script. Do I "FADE OUT" and then "FADE IN" again? What's the best way?
There's that "I want ..." again. Is it critical to the story? The credits are usually generated in post-production, not during the actual shoot. To be honest, as a director this is the sort of thing I might cut out or incorporate before the credits. If I needed to do this, I'd probably write something like:
Code: 
....
EXT.  GRAVEYARD - DAY

Judd wipes the blood from his lip and thrusts the
spade down into the loose soil of the grave.

Jill tumbles into his arms, staring up at him.

They stagger wearied and sore to the car.

The car pulls away.

                                                      FADE TO BLACK

EXT. GRAVEYARD - NIGHT

A skeletal hand shoots up from the grave.
It is implicit in a fade that time has passed. This gives full decision to the director and editor when to put in that scene. If we're seeing it, there's no need to say FADE IN.


(5) I have nameless alien characters (Penatrons) that have assumed the bodies of some human characters in the script. The human characters have already been introduced. Here's my problem: Let's say ROBERT gets assimilated by a Penatron. When Robert was talking previously I always just used: ROBERT

...Now that he's dead and a Penatron has assumed his body, I am forced to write him in like this:

ROBERT (AS A PENATRON) ...or... ROBERT (PENATRON).

What I'm running into is a lot of space is getting used up adding in their assimilated names into the action script. Here's an example:

Robert (as a Penatron) grabs a plasma blaster and kills Billy (as a Penatron). Rodney (as a Penatron) and Mathew (as a Penatron) grab their plasma blasters and incinerate Robert (as a Penatron).

You get the point. All this (as a Penatron) crap is eating up space. What I did was each time a character was assimilated I qualified it within the script:

A Penatron kills Robert and assumes his body - ROBERT(P). Two more Penatrons kill Rodney and Mathew and assume their bodies as well - RODNEY(P) and Mathew(P).

Is this a good idea? Is there a better way to handle this?


Thanks for the help!
-Birdman
Actually since the Penatrons KILL the host, there is no reason to distinguish them at all. It's really only an issue if you have twins, multiple personalities in one body or people who've switched bodies. Assuming that Robert is killed and never coming back, the audience has seen and knows this. So "Robert the Penatron" is no longer "Robert the human".

Screenwriting the character names is about commonsense. It helps the actor know which persona he's presenting. In the case you mentioned, the actor will know which "Robert" he's playing. Sometimes you use two names "CLARK" and "SUPERMAN". When it's in the best interest to make it clear, you can use a slash--JACK/NICE, JACK/PSYCHOTIC and JACK/PROFESSOR. I prefer the slash because parentheses can make it very confusing in some cases: JACK (PROFESSOR) (O.S.) (CONT'D).

P.S. The examples I have given are not in my script. They are just hi-tech names I'm using for example.
Click to expand...
I hope that helps.
 
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rayw said:
It's not kosher to make incendiary remarks here.
Save 'em for yahoo message boards, please.
:yes:
Click to expand...

No offense to anybody, please. :)
That's not incendiary, 'cuz Torah is a part of the Bible :yes:

Birdman said:
...No harm done. Although I'm surprised, you being in Israel, that you consider the Bible a "fantasy book".
Click to expand...

Does every Israeli has to be religious? :)
US official religion is Christianity, but does everybody to go church?:)

Birdman said:
...True, they changes SOME of it, but kept the screenplay writer's intent ...and VISION.
Click to expand...

I heard that in Matrix: Revolution the core idea was changed. The writer stated that after winning the war against machine, Neo realizes that the real world he has "liberated" is a Matrix too. That the Matrix programs has different "layers". The movie, however, ended up the humans taking victory over the machines. Those differences bring to different conclusions - different meaning.
 
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FantasySciFi said:
Not to be critical, but re-read your statement "I want ...". Are you the producer/director for this film? How it is visually rendered is their department. They might choose to use some cool AfterEffect trick with ink and sand. The important thing is the idea you want to convey to whomever makes the film.

Code:
BLACK SCREEN

SUPER: "Before the path is chosen, the Journey has already
begun. Nirak - Vulcan Philosopher"

FADE IN
...

There's that "I want ..." again. Is it critical to the story? The credits are usually generated in post-production, not during the actual shoot. To be honest, as a director this is the sort of thing I might cut out or incorporate before the credits. If I needed to do this, I'd probably write something like:

Code:
Click to expand...

Now you and RayW are at odds on the input. Ray says "No quotes around the text", but your example has quotes. ...Which way is correct?

Regarding "I want"

Well OF COURSE "I WANT"!!! It's my frickin' script! Who the hell else is going to want it? Bob, or maybe Sally who lives down the street? Should I go ask them what to put in my script? A scene design element in a screenplay is a lot different than a camera cue or a song selection. Both of the items I was asking about were SCENES. Scenes are what make up a movie.

I just saw "Ender's Game". It had a B&W quote to start the movie. What happened in their movie (at the beginning) was exactly as I WANT it to be in mine. If a director changes it ...big whoop!

Same goes for the fade-back-in scene. I WANT IT!! and it is very necessary. If you read the script you would know.

Thanks for the input!

-Birdman
 
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Birdman said:
Now you and RayW are at odds on the input. Ray says "No quotes around the text", but your example has quotes. ...Which way is correct?
Click to expand...

Well... FWIW, FantasySciFi may have put quote in his example, but in re-reading his statement...
(3) I have a "Biblical Quote" I want to appear at the beginning (white text over black background. I would like to see an example of how this should be handled. I have seen several different versions online, but they seem confusing at best.
Not to be critical, but re-read your statement "I want ...". Are you the producer/director for this film? How it is visually rendered is their department. They might choose to use some cool AfterEffect trick with ink and sand. The important thing is the idea you want to convey to whomever makes the film.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
"They might choose to use some cool AfterEffect trick with ink and sand" suggests quotations may be omitted.
And he goes on to state "The important thing is the idea you want to convey..."
So...

It honestly doesn't matter.

The ghost of Hoyle isn't going to come from the grave and rap your fingers at the keyboard for in- or excluding them.
It's an immaterial issue - even for a spec script.

FantasySciFi, what's your take?
Think six agents will have him include quotations while a half-dozen others won't because the director is going to do whatever he/she wants anyway, including skipping the entire quotation thing?
 
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Ray,

I was hoping to enter it in IndiePaul's script competition (Nicholl Fellowship). They are sticklers for properly-formatted scripts. I don't want any points against me on formatting.

-Birdman
 
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My experience from entering the Nicholls is that they really focus on writing and story structure. I don't feel it's a good place for comedies, action or sci-fi. If you get on facebook and read some of the reader's comments, you see praise for 'wonderful description of the scenery' and other crap that every writer knows is completely within the director's discretion and shouldn't be in the script. Nicholls is best for drama and war movies.

I also think Nicholls like to encourage newbies with a better than average rating on their first script and then go back to reality on every subsequent submission. I say that because my first submission received 2 positive reads and then nothing for the next TWO years even though I am know my next two scripts were far superior (I can be honest, my first was very very noobish.) I'm not saying it's a scam but it is very disappointing and the randomness is insane. Semi-finalists have posted how they got not even one positive response the next year when they post the same or improved script.

I think other contests with a Sci-Fi category such as Page and Austin would be better choices for you.

And this is why I am here on IndieTalk now, basically given up on screenwriting alone and learning how to produce and direct myself is probably the best route in this industry. Cheers!
 
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DIY said:
And this is why I am here on IndieTalk now, basically given up on screenwriting alone and learning how to produce and direct myself is probably the best route in this industry.
Click to expand...
Bingo.

Same reason here.

Spec screenwriting = 1/100,000 chance to get your screenplay even optioned, let alone survive development hell and get made and distributed, limited or wide.

Writer/director = 8+/10 of getting your story made into a film.

Hmm...
That's not very tough math.



I didn't get into filmmaking to read more, although (laughing) I find myself doing a sh!tload lot of reading. :lol:
I like films because I can get the gist of a story in 90min instead of eight, ten, twelve hours it takes to read a book.
King and Clancy destroyed my reading brain due to too much effing description.
I can direct in my mind just fine.

Ten words or less: "What." (Almost a statement rather than a question.)
 
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Well, that's fair enough. I had planned on submitting my script to several contests (including the Page) just to see what comments I might get.

If N.F. Focuses on scene descriptions, then I probably won't do very well. But maybe another outfit will like it better?

I am also sending it off to a script evaluation service to have them give me pre-contest feedback.

Ray, I know this shit is hard ...and the odds are overwhelming that my script will amount to nothing ...but I MUST believe that it will be successful. If a script writer doesn't feel this way then they are wasting their time.

- Birdman
 
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