Film School Questions.
- Thread starter Semiazas
- Start date
In my opinion, film school is all too expensive. The real Pro's of going to film school are access to equipment, being part of a flimmaking community and the hands on experience. With a litlle effort and alot of dedication you can get these things (close to) free without film school.
What you need to do is just start making movies. You'll have to find people that have the equipment and want to help you. Craigslist is a good place to look, it's amazing the amount of people who will be willing to help you with your project.
As far as academia goes, there's so much free information out there. Take this board for an example. Also, there are thousands of books but the best learning tool is going to be experience, there's only so much you can learn from a book.
If you have some extra money, I'd suggest buying some modest equipment yourself. You'll need an editing software. To start out I recommend Sony Vegas, it's cheap and not too overwhelming. A camera, you can pick up a decent used one on ebay for under $1000. Some sound equipment, you generally don't want to record sound through your camera because it's CRAPPY. Ask a sound guy on the board, what you'd need to start out or what you could "get away with" to start out.
If you don't have money for any of this, it's fine, just find people that do. If you have a good enough project to work on, they will most likely be happy to help for free. And don't forget to feed your crew or you won't have a crew next time.
My #1 piece of advice, no matter what direction you decide to take, is to surround yourself with people who are more talented and know more than you!
Hope this helps
What you need to do is just start making movies. You'll have to find people that have the equipment and want to help you. Craigslist is a good place to look, it's amazing the amount of people who will be willing to help you with your project.
As far as academia goes, there's so much free information out there. Take this board for an example. Also, there are thousands of books but the best learning tool is going to be experience, there's only so much you can learn from a book.
If you have some extra money, I'd suggest buying some modest equipment yourself. You'll need an editing software. To start out I recommend Sony Vegas, it's cheap and not too overwhelming. A camera, you can pick up a decent used one on ebay for under $1000. Some sound equipment, you generally don't want to record sound through your camera because it's CRAPPY. Ask a sound guy on the board, what you'd need to start out or what you could "get away with" to start out.
If you don't have money for any of this, it's fine, just find people that do. If you have a good enough project to work on, they will most likely be happy to help for free. And don't forget to feed your crew or you won't have a crew next time.
My #1 piece of advice, no matter what direction you decide to take, is to surround yourself with people who are more talented and know more than you!
Hope this helps
UK film schools are no-where near as expensive as US ones btw Tara. When are you thinking of going to Film School Semizas? If you can get in before 2013, I'd recommend going then before the prices of uni's triple.
If UK schools are much cheaper to the point that they are reasonable, I say go for it. It will most likely make your journey easier with all those resources at your fingertips. But, like with anything in life, you'll only get out of it what you put into it.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
Probably better to do Film at a respectable university than a specific film school (at least over here.)
But in order to break into the industry it's probably more important to gave a good degree than a specifically film orientated one. You won't be able to get jobs on sets and in production without a university education. It's just the sad state of employment affairs at the moment, you have thirty graduates competing for twenty jobs so nobody without a degree gets a look in...
But in order to break into the industry it's probably more important to gave a good degree than a specifically film orientated one. You won't be able to get jobs on sets and in production without a university education. It's just the sad state of employment affairs at the moment, you have thirty graduates competing for twenty jobs so nobody without a degree gets a look in...
Nick, I was under the impression that it's a persons portfolio that's the real zinger when it comes to landing a job, not having a degree.
Well, you study film. Depending on the school you can study film history or filmmaking, or both.
In the current climate I would disagree.
But I would also say that it's not really possible to build up a good portfolio before you've entered higher education. Presuming Semiazas is 17/18 then he won't have been able to get enough relevant experience for the better jobs, but nor will anyone else. That's when it'll matter what degree you have. After that you can start building a portfolio.
I'm not sure i understand you, Nick.
Without a University education, you'll be unable to access a job in a production?
If so, that's certainly not the case. Amidst the battle of Uni grads, there's never been so much opportunity for those whom are self-taught. Not only having the ability and resources to do so, but the rise in technology and comminication to pursue it further.
It is a common scenario, that both-one, a Uni grad, and the other, self-taught- will meet, will be "auditioning" so to say, looking at the very same advertisement for vacancies, meeting the very same people, hoping for "Their break".
It will be judged on the quality of their reel, the dedication, and prior references.
Never have I worked with anybody who in the circumstance of filling a position, dismissed those without academic merit, and favoured those who do.
Film, i would say -based upon my little personal experience- is neutrel when it comes to the academic, and non-academic despute. Compared to other professions, that is.
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Gotcha!
I'm currently applying to film schools in the UK at the moment. I think I want to go to Leeds, can you recommend me any other good ones in the UK? (London is too expensive I'm afraid.)
I'm currently applying to film schools in the UK at the moment. I think I want to go to Leeds, can you recommend me any other good ones in the UK? (London is too expensive I'm afraid.)
It's not often it happens and I don't enjoy it, but I'm going to have to disagree with you Paper 
In an ideal world talent would be talent and everyone would be judged as equals. But I'm talking about getting jobs in the film industry, rather than helping out with independent films. It might be more of a meritocracy in indie films but that's because people use them to build a portfolio. All the top jobs are incredibly competitive. If you are looking to break into film in order to start a career and make money, I would be very worried if you were doing it without qualifications.
The simple matter is is that unless you are doing something extremely technical (in which case the process is different and probably more reliant on the quality of your material) employers expect the brightest people to go to University. This hasn't always been the case but in the UK (at least for the moment) Uni is still cheap and accesible to even the poorest people so long as they can get CCC at A Level. When there are so few jobs, especially at a professional industry level, then they're going to be looking for grads and even then it's extremely competitive.
Sure you can go it alone and break into independent film and build up a career that way. And certainly with enough experience you can eventually be judged on your own merits (especially through networking) but if he's contemplating film school and is doing his A Levels then it would be foolish to advise anything other than going into university.
The worst thing would be to find in five years time that film isn't working out and that you really need a job only to be discounted from mid range salary jobs because you don't have a degree.
I'm not saying I either like or agree with the current climate, but most jobs aimed at professionals will want a degree and that's why I would recommend going to Uni first and then deciding how you want to approach film making.
In an ideal world talent would be talent and everyone would be judged as equals. But I'm talking about getting jobs in the film industry, rather than helping out with independent films. It might be more of a meritocracy in indie films but that's because people use them to build a portfolio. All the top jobs are incredibly competitive. If you are looking to break into film in order to start a career and make money, I would be very worried if you were doing it without qualifications.
The simple matter is is that unless you are doing something extremely technical (in which case the process is different and probably more reliant on the quality of your material) employers expect the brightest people to go to University. This hasn't always been the case but in the UK (at least for the moment) Uni is still cheap and accesible to even the poorest people so long as they can get CCC at A Level. When there are so few jobs, especially at a professional industry level, then they're going to be looking for grads and even then it's extremely competitive.
Sure you can go it alone and break into independent film and build up a career that way. And certainly with enough experience you can eventually be judged on your own merits (especially through networking) but if he's contemplating film school and is doing his A Levels then it would be foolish to advise anything other than going into university.
The worst thing would be to find in five years time that film isn't working out and that you really need a job only to be discounted from mid range salary jobs because you don't have a degree.
I'm not saying I either like or agree with the current climate, but most jobs aimed at professionals will want a degree and that's why I would recommend going to Uni first and then deciding how you want to approach film making.
You're forgetting a key element, i say it many times here at IT.
"Loan yourself to any production, be it only an extra pair of hands on set".
I happened to follow this instruction, throwing myself around any set that would take me, like a ragdoll caught in a gust. I started at 16, having a script of mine optioned by a local production company. (That would later be a mistake, may i add. I signed it over without pay).
However, i sat outside an office/workshop for a couple hours, offering my services. They knew i had the ability to write, but they have writers of their own, material already in the works. So, i said i'll be on set for whatever it is that was needed. It was simply against my character, but i wanted to build my own production company, i wanted to taste, and discover what was necessary to suceed, how the crew was orchestrated, how problems where solved, and it what manner.
I was not a "Film buff", my prior experience was a "Film Studies" course, in which i had interest, ofcourse, but i knew it wasn't necessary in my development. So i left.
The very same office, i sat. I was on a set within two weeks. From that i met a DP, who enjoyed the works similar Cinematographers as i did. I spent the shoot lifting, carrying, running. But most of all, and most importantly, watching, learning.
I spent two years meeting crew members, actors, discovering technique, process.
Learning who i would like to work with, was simple repetition. Paying close attention to numerous positions, and skill, painting pictures in my mind of how i would approach them, and the importance of this initial crossover, was the first step.
Five years on.
Am i still learning, am i still developing the crew, the technique? Very much so.
I did this without a degree.
If i'd started University, as I'm now 20 years old, i would imagine I'd yet to be finished the course.
I've worked- and do work- with both the qualified, and the not. As many do, there is momentary crossings of perspective, but it simply comes down to personal preference, and in which route most benefits your ability to learn.
The debate is not do you need a degree, but does the degree give you an advantage? Choosing between someone with some experience and someone with some experience plus a degree the choice is obvious - the degree wins out, especially when there are 20 people applying for each position. I'm not saying that this is fair, but this is the way that things are.
You also have to factor in that most of the time you will be thrown into the fire immediately; you have to know all of the stuff that film schools teach and very few pick up on their own. Plus no one mentors the way that they used to, and many of the old-time professionals are bemoaning that fact; too many craft "secrets" are being lost.
You also have to factor in that most of the time you will be thrown into the fire immediately; you have to know all of the stuff that film schools teach and very few pick up on their own. Plus no one mentors the way that they used to, and many of the old-time professionals are bemoaning that fact; too many craft "secrets" are being lost.
@PTP: In no way am I intending to say that it can't be done without a degree. Indeed lots of the best directors in history did it your way.
I'm just saying that in terms of a long and fulfilled career with constant employment it's preferable to have a degree. He may turn out to be a true auteur who can break Hollywood just by working his way up the ranks from Powder Monkey to Admiral, but if you have the opportunity to go to university then I would never advise against it...
I'm just saying that in terms of a long and fulfilled career with constant employment it's preferable to have a degree. He may turn out to be a true auteur who can break Hollywood just by working his way up the ranks from Powder Monkey to Admiral, but if you have the opportunity to go to university then I would never advise against it...
It appears we've posted at the same time, Nick.
The question seems to be, would i advise the OP to go to University?
A thousand people will say yes, a thousand people will say no. It's- as i've said- a matter of preference, and in which situation would ones ability to learn be best suited.
I would ask for the OP to think about this for as long as is possible. The situation, however, painted that aspiring to make a living out of Cinema is favoured to those who have a degree, is questionable.
The current climate is tangible, its as unsure, and as uneven as its ever been. Would someone hire a candidate without a degree, as apposed to one with, it's a risk, sure it is. But i promise you, it would not be the deciding factor.
If two candidates, one with, and one without. Their reels are both stunning, almost identical. Would you come to the conclusion that the DP, that the Sound op, etc. is a greater asset to your production simply because he has a degree. He may have been incompetent, an awful student, bright maybe, but a horror to have on set...
This would be discovered on references, people that you could call and ask how this guy is on set.
Degree candidate isn't going to have as much Set experience as our non-degree candidate, and this guy has references galore.
Now, this is me presenting a favourable scenario, one in which the non-degree candidate triumphs...
But you can see my side of the arguement, how i would percieve a neutrel playing-field?
NOTE: We seem to have come to a conclusion, Nick Tea?
The question seems to be, would i advise the OP to go to University?
A thousand people will say yes, a thousand people will say no. It's- as i've said- a matter of preference, and in which situation would ones ability to learn be best suited.
I would ask for the OP to think about this for as long as is possible. The situation, however, painted that aspiring to make a living out of Cinema is favoured to those who have a degree, is questionable.
The current climate is tangible, its as unsure, and as uneven as its ever been. Would someone hire a candidate without a degree, as apposed to one with, it's a risk, sure it is. But i promise you, it would not be the deciding factor.
If two candidates, one with, and one without. Their reels are both stunning, almost identical. Would you come to the conclusion that the DP, that the Sound op, etc. is a greater asset to your production simply because he has a degree. He may have been incompetent, an awful student, bright maybe, but a horror to have on set...
This would be discovered on references, people that you could call and ask how this guy is on set.
Degree candidate isn't going to have as much Set experience as our non-degree candidate, and this guy has references galore.
Now, this is me presenting a favourable scenario, one in which the non-degree candidate triumphs...
But you can see my side of the arguement, how i would percieve a neutrel playing-field?
NOTE: We seem to have come to a conclusion, Nick
Tea?
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I never got serious about making movies until after "film" school (if I can even call it that), but it was great to be surrounded by like-minded art/cinema/theater nerds who all were interested in the creative process, to varying degrees. It's now 17 years since I graduated and I'm still not "making a living" at it, but I know it will always be my life's work-in-progress. ; )
That said, I don't think I would be able to afford the film school (USA) price tag these days.
That said, I don't think I would be able to afford the film school (USA) price tag these days.
NOTE: We seem to have come to a conclusion, Nick
How British are we?
I agree. To use a footballing term at the end of the day, it's up to him...
How British are we?
I agree. To use a footballing term at the end of the day, it's up to him...
Sadly, i don't enjoy tea in the slightest. It tastes like dampened copper.
"At the end of the day, er, the result, er, was good, y'know? three-points on the board, Gafa's 'appy, y'know, so..."
I've actually found a course here that looks like it might be quite good
http://www.aucb.ac.uk/courses/degreecourses/filmproduction.aspx
As that essentially how a filmmaking course works?
http://www.aucb.ac.uk/courses/degreecourses/filmproduction.aspx
As that essentially how a filmmaking course works?