film-school Film school or start filming feature?

J

jake2

Hi there,

I am facing a bit of a conundrum and was hoping to ask for some advice without being too obnoxious.

In my 20s, I started a business which I sold, and now I have a enough funds on hand to make potentially a couple of ultra-low budget features (100k-150k lets say). I've been passionate about film for years and planning to give filmmaking a shot once I had the chance.

I have also been granted acceptance to the MFA program at one of the big name film schools (UCLA/USC/NYU/AFI). I am now trying to decide whether it would be worth attending or not or if I should just make a few shorts and them start filming one of the screenplays I have written.

I could definitely use the technical training (I haven't filmed anything since goofing around as a teenager), and I really don't have any contacts in the film world.

My long term dreams are (like a lot of people) to make Indie films that get to the top festivals or to be a showrunner for a tv show. I was thinking that the film school might help get me on the radar of the people who run the festivals so they would take my films seriously when submitted. I know the quality of a film, by a good margin, is the most important thing, but I also know how important contacts are in life. I was also dreaming that I might be able to use film school to work my way onto the writing staff for a TV show. I'm admitted to the directing program, but have the option to take screenwriting classes taught by working industry people. I thought I might be able to use those contacts the get onto a staff somewhere.

I'm not sure if it is worth the time though. I just turned thirty, and don't really think I have the time to spend 3-4 years in classes.

Do you guys think for somebody in my position with sub-par technical skills and no contacts in the industry would be better off going to film school or just starting to film on my own?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
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GuerrillaAngel said:
See, the problem with non-accredited schools is that you can't get a JOB!

:lol:
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Why? You don't need a piece of paper to get work on a film set... You don't even need formal training. You certainly don't need accreditation.

Of course depending on what you want to do. Personally, I ended up with a Bachelor degree - and whilst simply having that piece of paper, that degree didn't mean I automatically got a job - the people I met, the network I developed, the knowledge and experience I had acquired was what got me a job.
Yes - I could have developed contacts and knowledge and experience without the formal schooling, and without the degree. But that doesn't mean it was worthless.
 
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jax_rox said:
Why? You don't need a piece of paper to get work on a film set... You don't even need formal training. You certainly don't need accreditation.

Of course depending on what you want to do. Personally, I ended up with a Bachelor degree - and whilst simply having that piece of paper, that degree didn't mean I automatically got a job - the people I met, the network I developed, the knowledge and experience I had acquired was what got me a job.
Yes - I could have developed contacts and knowledge and experience without the formal schooling, and without the degree. But that doesn't mean it was worthless.
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This +13354645342336657434123

The degree is something you just earn when you go the filmschool road, a job is what you get with the skills and character you developed (by putting in the time and effort) from or through the people you learnt to know along that road.
There are different roads to acquire these skills, but focussing for a few years guided by experienced teachers and motivated peers is pretty effective.

I'm doing mostly corporate stuff now: and I love it :)
I do have competition without formal education and some make a decent living as well, although the experience and knowledge is at a different level. But the market has a demand for all kind of levels.

Disclaimer: education is not as expensive in The Netherlands as it is in the USA.
 
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Sky, how about a link to those stats. They better be full-time jobs in the film business that produces an income to pay back their school debts.

Jax, virtually no graduate of film schools make a full time living directing films. Some do get into the business and make a career of it, but it is a long rough road of being broke until you. Many (most?) are eventually disillusioned and end up having to take non-film employment permanently to pay off the school debts. (School loans can't be discharged through bankruptcy)

Films schools exist because of a high demand of people wanting to get into the film business -- NOT because there is a high demand for graduates of film schools. With endless suckers willing to fork out big bucks to get training for film jobs (in an industry that can't possibly absorb most of the graduates), film schools are making a killing.

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On the other hand, non-film school filmmakers don't have school debts and are more able to afford the rough road into the film business.

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Rax, a Bachelor's Degree is often required for many high paying positions in our society. Because you have one, far more doors are open to you. Whereas the Fullsail grads will find ALL those doors closed to them. For them, that film school "degree" is indeed a worthless piece of paper.
 
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GuerrillaAngel said:
Sky, how about a link to those stats. They better be full-time jobs in the film business that produces an income to pay back their school debts.

Jax, virtually no graduate of film schools make a full time living directing films. Some do get into the business and make a career of it, but it is a long rough road of being broke until you. Many (most?) are eventually disillusioned and end up having to take non-film employment permanently to pay off the school debts. (School loans can't be discharged through bankruptcy)

Films schools exist because of a high demand of people wanting to get into the film business -- NOT because there is a high demand for graduates of film schools. With endless suckers willing to fork out big bucks to get training for film jobs (in an industry that can't possibly absorb most of the graduates), film schools are making a killing.

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On the other hand, non-film school filmmakers don't have school debts and are more able to afford the rough road into the film business.

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Rax, a Bachelor's Degree is often required for many high paying positions in our society. Because you have one, far more doors are open to you. Whereas the Fullsail grads will find ALL those doors closed to them. For them, that film school "degree" is indeed a worthless piece of paper.
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See you're asking me to cite my resource for that... yet here you are making wild accusations with no personal experience on the matter and not citing any resources.

If you'd like to see employment rates recorded by the US government, google it? The only way I know how to see the employment rates is by filing for FASFA and entering the school's ID. Which then provides you with their employment rate for convenience

Also there is a problem in your accusation. You said full time living directing films? Not everyone wants to direct films. In fact, that's an illogical way to get into the film industry. Lot of people want to do sound work, key gripping, gaffing, camera team, assistant directing, production managing, etc... There are tons of ways to work full time in this industry that are much easier to get into than directing.

Obviously if you have student loans (Which I don't think a single of my 106 peers has) than these entry jobs like grip and pa are perfect for paying them off. Especially if you get a job on a tv show, as that's a long-term paying job. You act like paying off student loans are hard? It's only 75$ a month.
 
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GuerrillaAngel said:
Jax, virtually no graduate of film schools make a full time living directing films. Some do get into the business and make a career of it, but it is a long rough road of being broke until you. Many (most?) are eventually disillusioned and end up having to take non-film employment permanently to pay off the school debts. (School loans can't be discharged through bankruptcy)

Films schools exist because of a high demand of people wanting to get into the film business -- NOT because there is a high demand for graduates of film schools. With endless suckers willing to fork out big bucks to get training for film jobs (in an industry that can't possibly absorb most of the graduates), film schools are making a killing.
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Many are making a comfortable living in the industry in fields and positions other than 'Motion Picture Film Director'
As they should be - if everyone was a Director, it would be near impossible to make films.

The thing is - even if you could come up with figures that suggested one in every thousand film school graduates make a full time career out of directing films - you would find it would be even less without film school!!

All the wannabe Directors and film makers out there who haven't attended film school surely outnumber those who have - so actually even if your chances are 1 in 1000 (a number I just pulled out of my ass, btw) of becoming a full time, long term film director, you have a much better chance of working in the film industry in some capacity, and also have still more chance of a full time directing career than being the one in one million wannabe Directors who have never gone to film school. Despite the fact that hypothetically, you might be in a better financial position.
 
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jax_rox said:
if everyone was a Director, it would be near impossible to make films.
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Agreed. But nearly everyone aspiring to get into the film business want to direct. If we all wanted to grip, film schools would be dead. And they know that.

The thing is - even if you could come up with figures that suggested one in every thousand film school graduates make a full time career out of directing films - you would find it would be even less without film school!!
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Not so. As many here have noted over the years, you can get into the business, even directing, without film school. There's no evidence to support your claims of odds of directing a feature film is higher if you spend $75k at film school.
 
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GuerrillaAngel said:
Agreed. But nearly everyone aspiring to get into the film business want to direct. If we all wanted to grip, film schools would be dead. And they know that.
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Of course - but having a career as a grip is not a bad thing - if yu decide you want to be a grip or an electric, or a Production Designer, or an AD - that's great... and if film school helped you make your decision, and helped you get work - then that's also great.

GuerrillaAngel said:
Not so. As many here have noted over the years, you can get into the business, even directing, without film school. There's no evidence to support your claims of odds of directing a feature film is higher if you spend $75k at film school.
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Of course you can. Does that mean film school's not worth it? Course not. Some people pick up AVID just by playing around - others need to do a two week course. Some people become chefs by working in kitchens, observing and working their way up. Others go and study food and how it works and become a chef that way. Does that mean the one who went to school was an idiot, that their schooling was usesless or pointless? Course not. The fact that there are multiple ways to get to a destination does not necessarily mean one way is better or worse than another.

There's also no evidence to suggest that those who don't go to film school have at least the same or better odds at directing a feature film compared to those who do.

Also - what's wrong with directing commercials and/or television?

I'm talking specifically about notable, reputable film schools.

It's true that you make your own luck, but attending a reputable film school with a good program can certainly help.
That doesn't mean it's the only way to a career in the industry, or the best for every single person. But it doesn't mean it's a useless/pointless way to get a career in the industry.
 
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GuerrillaAngel said:
Only $75, huh? :hmm:

Lets see, I went to your school's tuition page http://www.fullsail.edu/admissions/campus-tuition

It's $74,500 for the film school course . . . :lol:

Clearly, math is not a prerequisite for enrolling in Full Sail. :no:

Mr. Copeland, it is obvious that you don't know what you're talking about or you're entirely clueless.
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And clearly language comprehension is why you didn't attend college?

Indeed, the degree does cost a lot. Now take it from someone who actually goes there. No one pays that. Add in the 25-45k that the school gives you for the fun of it (their scholarships are handed out easily). Add in the Pell Grant. Additional easily obtained academic scholarships.

You should now be paying around 10-15k, assuming you were worth ANYTHING in high school or your previous college. Loans or out of pocket, your choice, the cost is equal to community college.

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75$? Yes. A month, until you pay it off. That's how government subsidized loans work. Have you ever even considered college? Or is your plan to keep aspiring to be a director until you die?
 
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GuerrillaAngel said:
I'm already a director.
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Of what? 200$ shorts? 10,000$ features? Come tell me when you're in DGA.

The ball is still in your court -- fork up the evidence. Indie Talk awaits.
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I already told you how to get the statistics. Pay attention.

GuerrillaAngel said:
Ding! Does that not raise red flags? :lol:
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No it doesn't? Have you ever been to college? Like any college? They all give scholarships to their own students.

Alumni donates money, that money is used to make college cheaper. It's done at every college, not just Full Sail. Even community colleges have their own scholarships.
 
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SkyCopeland said:
In no way is that a dodge. If you're too lazy to fill in a FASFA up to the point of seeing school statistics, that's your problem. Otherwise, wait a year and when I can fill it out again, I'll screenshot it for you.
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Another dodge. The burden is on YOU to back up your claims. If you don't want to provide evidence, don't make the claim in the first place.

Indie Talk awaits proof of your extraordinary claim.
 
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mlesemann said:
For what it's worth (or not), from the NY Times last month:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/12/education/edlife/film-school-for-profit-or-not.html?_r=0
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Oh very nice article! I'm not sure the last time they visited Full Sail though... They completely overlooked our newest feature REBL HQ. Full Sail's collaboration with YouTube Agent company 'Maker Studios'. Nice they talked about NXT though, I love working photoshoots for WWE. A job that I got simply for getting to know an instructor.

Putting WWE on the resume is pretty epic.
 
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