film-school Film school or start filming feature?

J

jake2

Hi there,

I am facing a bit of a conundrum and was hoping to ask for some advice without being too obnoxious.

In my 20s, I started a business which I sold, and now I have a enough funds on hand to make potentially a couple of ultra-low budget features (100k-150k lets say). I've been passionate about film for years and planning to give filmmaking a shot once I had the chance.

I have also been granted acceptance to the MFA program at one of the big name film schools (UCLA/USC/NYU/AFI). I am now trying to decide whether it would be worth attending or not or if I should just make a few shorts and them start filming one of the screenplays I have written.

I could definitely use the technical training (I haven't filmed anything since goofing around as a teenager), and I really don't have any contacts in the film world.

My long term dreams are (like a lot of people) to make Indie films that get to the top festivals or to be a showrunner for a tv show. I was thinking that the film school might help get me on the radar of the people who run the festivals so they would take my films seriously when submitted. I know the quality of a film, by a good margin, is the most important thing, but I also know how important contacts are in life. I was also dreaming that I might be able to use film school to work my way onto the writing staff for a TV show. I'm admitted to the directing program, but have the option to take screenwriting classes taught by working industry people. I thought I might be able to use those contacts the get onto a staff somewhere.

I'm not sure if it is worth the time though. I just turned thirty, and don't really think I have the time to spend 3-4 years in classes.

Do you guys think for somebody in my position with sub-par technical skills and no contacts in the industry would be better off going to film school or just starting to film on my own?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
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personally I think money is better spent on a few shorts then go into features, dont spend 100k on a feature, you dont have the experience for it.

every professional book iv read said film school wasnt that great compared to real onset experience, which for 100k you could learn 100 times the amount any of these school kids would for a much cheaper price, in film school you may come out with less than 3 films, whereas in 1 year you could make 8 short films..
 
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I don't believe this has been mentioned, but instead of all out going to a film school, there are specific area intensive workshops one can take. But yes, do your free research online, then make shorts first.
best of luck
 
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Just want to drop in to say, shoot the feature for as little money as possible (less than 10k). It probably won't be good, but it will be your film school. You will learn a lot more from this than film school. Then make your second film. This one may be good!
 
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If it were me, and you were talking about one of the notable film schools, then I would probably go ahead and do it.

Making your first, super low budget feature with very little knowledge or experience will be a big learning curve for you - but you will learn more, you will learn to be a professional, learn how the industry works, create better work and have much better opportunities going to a notable, reputable film school. In addition, you will meet like-minded people who will in at least some cases, turn out to be lifelong acquaintances, people who you work with, and people who get you work.

I still get regular work from people I went to film school with - from the friends I made who are now Producers at big television or commercial production companies, or Directors for whom I shot their graduating film, had a great experience, and a great working relationship - who are now developing projects with actual budgets. DPs who now work shooting TVCs and Features who get me to AC for them.

And that's not to mention the other connections you make via that. My first real 'big' project after film school was a friend of mine from film school calling me, asking me to fill in for him on a shoot that weekend - it was for a production company and DP I'd never met, didn't go to our film school. My friend had to pull out and was hoping I could fill in. I did, and that DP turned out to be quite an up-and-coming DP, who also had contacts with many other DPs in the same position, so was able to recommend me to others.

Had I not gone to film school, I imagine I would be more likely shooting corporates these days, I imagine it would have taken me a lot longer to get to where I currently am, and would likely not have worked on the Commercials, films, and television that I have.

If you're not going to film school, my suggestion would be to get onto as many sets as you possibly can - learn as much as you possibly can, make as many connections as you can, PA for as many productions as possible, get on as a Camera Attachment, or whatever.
 
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film_autre said:
personally I think money is better spent on a few shorts then go into features, dont spend 100k on a feature, you dont have the experience for it.

every professional book iv read said film school wasnt that great compared to real onset experience, which for 100k you could learn 100 times the amount any of these school kids would for a much cheaper price, in film school you may come out with less than 3 films, whereas in 1 year you could make 8 short films..
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Are film schools really that expensive in the UK? My degree WITHOUT ANY financial aid or scholarships would have been 79,000$. After financial aids for the general students, film school costs about as much as community college. (This of course excludes NYFA, which is absurdly priced.)

Less than 3 films? Maybe this is another difference between USA film schools and UK film schools... but you don't make a feature here. You make a large number of short films. Two months ago I had made 4 short films. Then last month I was apart of 3 of the 6 festival aimed shorts. Then this month I'll have a short documentary. The month after will be another.

If I went back since the start of my degree (9 months ago) I've made more than 8 shorts. All of which had full budget equipment at their disposal.

Sage Pictures said:
Just want to drop in to say, shoot the feature for as little money as possible (less than 10k). It probably won't be good, but it will be your film school. You will learn a lot more from this than film school. Then make your second film. This one may be good!
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That can't even come close to what you learn in Film School... You're simply going to make a shit film. Will you learn from it? Most likely. If you don't, quit now.

Film School is a SCHOOL it's absurd to think you can RANDOMLY acquire knowledge simply from making a shit feature film with your friends. You will know about as much about film as high school AV club students.

You could learn film with the internet and practice... but that'll still take you YEARS (most likely more than the 2-4 years of film school). You won't learn a percent of everything you need from just making that shitty feature.

Your second film? It'll still most likely be shit.

To master a skill takes an estimated 10,000 hours of study.

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I'm sorry, but unless you've graduated from film school, I see no reason why you should tell people what they'd learn from making a shit feature compared to going to film school. You have ZERO idea what is taught at film school.

Those professional books? We read those as well, school gives us a HUGE library of these books plus Creative Edge Safari access. On Set experience? We do that monthly. Professional experience? Yep, we're required to get a professional IMDb entry before graduating.

Long story short, I don't care what anyone thinks, FILM SCHOOL WILL IMPROVE YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND ABILITY TO MAKE FILMS. IT'S A SHORTCUT TO HAVING TO SPEND MANY YEARS LEARNING THE SAME THING YOURSELF.
 
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Don't listen to the rude guy above. Take it from someone who did the film school thing; it's not worth it.

It is most likely that your first two features (and perhaps many more) will be bad (less rude). But oh, you will learn. A lot more than film school.
 
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Sage Pictures said:
Don't listen to the rude guy above. Take it from someone who did the film school thing; it's not worth it.

It is most likely that your first two features (and perhaps many more) will be bad (less rude). But oh, you will learn. A lot more than film school.
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There is nothing rude about my post above. Are you taking me calling people's first films shit as rude? They are shit. My first projects were shit. Everyone I know has had shit first projects. You can't make anything good without making shit first.

What film school did you attend? Did you graduate?

Again... two features made by you and your friends will not teach you more than film school.... you saying that makes me think you must have attended a community college film program... which is NOT film school.
 
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I'll also say that film school gives you a chance to explore the many different options available for jobs in the industry.

Ask 100 people just starting film school what they want to be and you'll probably get at least 95 people say 'Director' - by the end it will be much more of a mix. Some will want to be editors, some sound designers, some sound recordists, some camera dept, some Production Designers, some SCript Supervisors, some Producers and yes, even some Directors.

But whilst probably 80-90% of people wanted to be Directors at the start of my film course, by the end much fewer wanted to be Directors - or at least much fewer wanted to be 'only' Directors.

I certainly wanted to be an picture and/or sound editor when I started film school before realising that the camera dept was my 'true calling' ;)

The thing I find about good film schools, is that whilst you can say it will cost you the same to make 1-2 low budget features that probably won't be good, the reality is you learn a lot more at film school. You tend to learn things that only being on a real set can teach you. How to behave on set. How to work with your HODs. How to build relationships. How to (in the case of camera department and Producers) build relationships with rental houses to get you discounts on rentals. It may not be something you learn directly (i.e. there's no class called 'getting cheaper rental rates 101'), but you learn it. You learn what it takes to make a good, commercially viable film in a pretty safe environment, rather than just what mistakes you made blowing money on a low budget film that you hate so much you don't want anyone to ever see it. I made a number of those in film school. But by the end I also shot some stuff I was really quite proud of, and happy with.
All in three years. Many first ultra low budget features have still not been finished within that time period.

I learned how to breakdown and schedule a script in film school. I learnt how to budget. I learned tips and tricks for writing. Script structures. How to talk to actors - how to direct actors effectively. We did workshops with actual actors to see how our directions actually effect performances.

I learned how to edit on AVID. I learned basic motion graphics on AE. I learned how to shoot green screen properly.

I learned, through in class workshops, as well as being on sets, what lights did. How they work. What lights gave what effects, and when to use them. How to use a light meter and expose effectively.

And I shot a number of different films that ranged from great to shit on 35mm, S16mm, ENG, DV RED, Alexa. We used extensively outfitted camera rigs and kits, and used professional lighting equipment. We had dollies and jibs - we had professional audio recorders (we even hada CANTAR), and professional grade wireless mics. We had a studio with a green screen and audio studios with proper voice booths. And it's not like we had one of each - in my graduating year, around 40 films were made. There was enough equipment for each film to have at least a camera test, a production week (or in some cases two weeks), and generally at least a few days of pickups. And enough equipment for everyone to do at least their edit, and in some cases sound design. Some projects went off-site and employed the student discounts we were eligible for, for their colour grades and sound mixes.


Could I have done all this without going to film school? Sure. Would I have been able to learn it as quickly? Maybe. Maybe not. Would I have learnt as much as I did, been given the opportunities I've had, and done the kind of work I have without going to film school? Probably not.

Would I have learnt something about film simply making my own low budget feature instead? Sure. Would I have learnt as much as I did, been given the opportunities I have, and done the kind of work I have simply shooting a shitty low budget feature? No way.

Does that mean everyone should go to film school? Of course not. But in my experience, and my knowledge - if you're not going to go the film school route, you should get on as many real sets as you possibly can in whatever position possible and work your butt off.

Unless you happen to have a number of awesome, really cool, really original stories that you're able to translate really well onto the screen. In that case, go for your life - but you'll still need to make those 1-2+ not very good, low budget movies first.
 
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Sage Pictures said:
Don't listen to the rude guy above. Take it from someone who did the film school thing; it's not worth it.

It is most likely that your first two features (and perhaps many more) will be bad (less rude). But oh, you will learn. A lot more than film school.
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Ugh. Unnecessary flip response. I leave it up unchanged as an example of bad form.
Its best to find the truth in what the other is saying.

SkyCopeland said:
What film school did you attend? Did you graduate?

Again... two features made by you and your friends will not teach you more than film school.... you saying that makes me think you must have attended a community college film program... which is NOT film school.
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PSU, 4 years main campus, full academic scholarship, summa cl. I could teach my teachers. My education occurred outside of the classroom while making movies to my own drum beat
 
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Sage Pictures said:
PSU, 4 years main campus, full academic scholarship, summa cl. I could teach my teachers. My education occurred outside of the classroom while making movies to my own drum beat
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Well here lies our problem and I mean this in no offense to you or PSU. But that's not film school.

I went ahead and looked up the course and what it entails... A large amount of credits required to that degree aren't even film related... and apparently you're only required to take the basic film theory courses, with the option of taking more advanced courses. Even of course if you did take those advanced classes, I can only imagine they are the starting courses at a film school.

See the problem of PSU film program and other state universities is that they are nationally accredited. This means a large portion of the courses are useless to those who wish to make a career in film, and even the ones they need have been adjusted to hell in order to accredit them.

An actual film school on the other hand puts accreditation second and education first. Full Sail University for example only lets you spend about 4 months on general education and then the next 18 will be slampacked with two FILM courses every month. (An estimated 160 hours of real world experience in each class). Obviously Full Sail isn't nationally accredited as a University, however it does hold a very valid Technical School accreditation, which in reality is the better option anyways.

This also brings us to the difference between a Science and an Art degree. Normal universities can't accredit a Film Science degree because that would require a majority of hands on courses that the government simply doesn't want to validate with accreditation. Therefore they provide students with a Bachelor's of Art degree. Technical schools however can provide those hands on classes and in the end, provide you with a Bachelor's of Science degree.

In the US, the number of actual Film Schools is pretty low. New School University I think is the closest blend between National University and Film School. Then for pure film schools you have art institutions, NYFA, and Full Sail. NYFA of course has the horrible rap and bad teachers... but at least they have that deal with Universal.
 
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GuerrillaAngel said:
See, the problem with non-accredited schools is that you can't get a JOB!

:lol:
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Full Sail has an 80% employment rate recorded with the Federal Government. It still has accreditation, just not national university. Do you think people from MIT can't get jobs either?

You seem to be very aggressively against film schools; makes me wonder if you've actually got experience on the subject, or just assume.
 
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