Fair producer's percentage

J

JetMonkey

Here's my situation. After a few years in development, my own feature may now finally get made. I was contacted by another producer who likes my script and wants to help me produce it. Although they are not bringing any $$$, what they did offer is bringing a known talent who has quite a good fan base in order to start a crowdfunding campaign. Ok, fine I said. With the talent now attached to the film, funds may possibly be raised to make the film happen... something I'm not able to do on my own unless I get a hugh loan.

So my question is this... I need to draw up a producer's agreement and want to know what is a fair percentage to give the other producer IF THE FILM BECOMES PROFITABLE. I brought the project (script, production company, etc.) She brought the talent who's fans will hopefully donate enough to make the film. Is 50/50 fair for the profits of the film?

Btw, whatever funds are raised by the campaign, I do not consider that funds that she brings in. That is funds directly from the talent's fans and do not need to be reimbursed. Only profits that the film may make once distributed.

Thanks, guys!
 
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Ok, guys. I got a pretty good update for ya. I was fortunate enough to be referred to an entertainment lawyer who's been in the biz representing big name companies since 79. He was nice enough to spend quite a bit of time on the phone with me giving his opinion on my situation. Here's some of the breakdowns he explained to me and what he recommended...

When it comes to film profits, this is who gets paid in order:

-Investors (anyone who writes a check) are paid first. Standard is whatever they put in plus 20%.
-All the guilds for residuals
-The remainer is split into two parts (50/50): Producer's share and Talent's share

Producer's share usually goes 50/50 or depending on how much one producer did vs. another.
Ex. One may recieve 50%, another maybe half that or 1/4

Talent's share is basically whatever you decide or negotiate to give to whoever on the cast/crew etc.

Yes, I learned what a point means (1pt = 1%). So with my situation. He basically told me what sfoster mentioned at the beginning. The second producer is just referring the talent who's fans may bring in the funds. So eventhough she's "Co-Producer" and should be offered points on the back end, He thinks no more than 5 pts. (and he said that's being generous, he'd start with 2.5 or 3pts.)

Here's his other recomended amounts for production staff on the back end:

Director - 10 to 15pts
Writer - 5pts.
DP if he worked below regular rate - 3 to 5pts.
Cast - depending on what his fans do end up bringing in, he may want 15 to 20pts.

Finally, he told me whatever is left goes to the Investors and Producers. So, what do you guys think? Thanks again for your insight!
 
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So eventhough she's "Co-Producer" and should be offered points on the back end, He thinks no more than 5 pts. (and he said that's being generous, he'd start with 2.5 or 3pts.)
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If someone countered me with 2.5 or 3 points down from 50, I'd tell you to wipe their ass with it. You're in different ball parks. If I were you, I'd only do it if you had a decent chance of being able to find finance elsewhere and you're more than happy to walk away from the deal and potentially burn that bridge.

The other part to consider. Can this guy (and who he's referring) actually deliver the results?
 
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Sweetie said:
If someone countered me with 2.5 or 3 points down from 50, I'd tell you to wipe their ass with it. You're in different ball parks. If I were you, I'd only do it if you had a decent chance of being able to find finance elsewhere and you're more than happy to walk away from the deal and potentially burn that bridge.

The other part to consider. Can this guy (and who he's referring) actually deliver the results?
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Sweetie, 50 was never offered. That's why I had to ask all this first before negotiations because I wasn't sure what was fair. 3pts was the starting offer per advice from the entertainment attorney I chatted with.
 
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Hey guys, I'm back for a quick update and opinion. So, it looks like we're going to be funded by this talent's fan base. Not a guarentee of course, but definately possible. Now, the talent would like to have some producer credit attached along with being in the film. I have no problem adding this talent along as another producer... after all, if the talent's fans do end up bankrolling the entire production then the talent should get back a portion of the "investor/producer's share", right? My question now is.. what is a fair percentage amount to give as additional producer?

It's my film of course (production company and producer) but the talent's fans are bringing in the $$$. Should it be 50/50 of the producer's share, or something else?

Thanks guys!
 
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I see filmmaking as a "no risk - no gain" situation. Why should someone who takes the entire risk only get partial reward?

Give him an Executive Producer's credit, as he's the funding source. Then give him a majority percentage of the project.

Think about your career in a long term, this actor is a resource. He has a fan base that is big enough to fund your project. If you made this film, you potentially will gain some of his fan base into YOUR fan base which can support you later one (not to mention if things go smoothly this guy may want to work with you again).

Now to think about what is fair taking all things considered....

I'd say it's fair for him to get 100% and then you just a single paycheck. But I bet even the actor would feel like a douche at the end of that contract signing (unless he really is that good). So perhaps something like 70/30 (you being the 30) or 80/20.

Just remember... the last thing you want is for him to get burned in this process. You want him to feel like this venture was worth it. Either by being able to turn a profit or at least expanding his fan-base.
 
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I already "risked" 40K on a proof of concept in order for his fans to even see the potiential project. Not to mention the fact I've spent 4 years in development working to get it to this point including attaching the talent to it. Now you're saying all the talent has to do is SHOW it to the fans and automatically gets 80% of the profits if it gets made?

Not trying to sound like an a$$, I appreciate your opinion. Just seems kinda lopsided cause its the fans who are putting in their $$$, the talent doesn't really risk anything.
 
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JetMonkey said:
I already "risked" 40K on a proof of concept in order for his fans to even see the potiential project. Not to mention the fact I've spent 4 years in development working to get it to this point including attaching the talent to it. Now you're saying all the talent has to do is SHOW it to the fans and automatically gets 80% of the profits if it gets made?
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I didn't say that at all. All I did was respond to the information I was given. I do not know any information you don't provide me with.

I was provided the following information:

Actor's fans want to fund film.

Actor wants producer credit.

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If you spent 40,000$ you're certainly entitled to a gain for that risk. As I said "no risk - no reward", you took part in the risk and deserve a share of reward in that case.

However say the actor could get his fan base to raise over 160,000$, I'd once again say he has justified 80% of the reward. As his fans took 80% of the risk.

If he can only bring in 40,000$ then a 50/50 split is very justified.

If he can't bring up that much, than less is justified for him. When talking about money, less invested, less earned.

But he does have a fan base... which may be potential income after release... which is also nice, so give him some padding even if it does end up even split. Incentive for him to market it to his fans, ya know?
 
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JetMonkey said:
Not trying to sound like an a$$, I appreciate your opinion. Just seems kinda lopsided cause its the fans who are putting in their $$$, the talent doesn't really risk anything.
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Ah! You edited haha... Well legally if you're going the crowdfunding route you can't offer points to backers through websites like Kickstarter or IndieGoGo. However if he has fans he know have heavy pockets, he could bring them to a meeting with you and they can become actual Executive Producers.

It's a weird day we live in where a person has their fans pay for a product and then they make money from it. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's how things are with crowdsourcing funding via fans.

Either way, without him, you don't have the fan base to do raise that kind of crowdfunding, making him a resource that's worth having.

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Oh! And the talent does actually risk something. His integrity with his fans. Say the project blows up, never finishes, or worse case his acting is horrible in it. He will end up with a lot of very pissed fans, ones that were originally so supportive of him that they gave up their hard earned cash to help make a project he believed in possible.
 
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JetMonkey said:
what is a fair percentage amount to give as additional producer?
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in terms of fairness i think that depends entirely on how much money is fan base actually brings in. has this actor used crowd funding from their fan base in the past, something that could give you an estimate of what they will bring it?

or maybe you could look at their number of followers and try to correlate that with other actors who have crowd sourced, the success they had, and how many followers they posses.

id feel like a horses ass to give them a big share of the producers return if they only raised like $10,000

anyway it's not about risk for the actor, risk is a factor for business but not the primary one. With very few remarkable exceptions, in any business transition -cash is king-
 
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I already "risked" 40K on a proof of concept in order for his fans to even see the potiential project. Not to mention the fact I've spent 4 years in development working to get it to this point including attaching the talent to it. Now you're saying all the talent has to do is SHOW it to the fans and automatically gets 80% of the profits if it gets made?
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I'm curious to why the development costs not part of the production budget?

...and yes, it can not only be a fair deal, it could be a great deal for you to accept. Do you have other options? If not, him taking 100% may still be a good deal for you. Is it ideal for you? No. Is it the best deal you'll get? Perhaps. Can you get a better deal? Perhaps.

what is a fair percentage amount to give as additional producer?
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Depends on what both sides agree upon with the information at hand. It's a negotiation. From reading this, more and more hidden information is likely to exist. It's impossible to gauge a qualified or even an unqualified opinion when information is being omitted.
 
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Guys, I really do appreciate all the responses. And yes, I'm doing my best to give you all the facts as discreately as I can. This talent's fan base does have the potiential to raise upward in the six figure area. The talent is part of a group that has already raised over a million to fund another project. So, even if 1/2 of that is raised for my film I'll be happy. As mentioned, I have already put in overf 40K for a proof of concept and that indeed will be included in the production costs. I also have 10% secured of a million dollar budget. I'm not a greedy person but I really do think after all the blood sweat and time I've devoted to this project. I don't see giving anything more than 50/50 as fair. It's my film and I will still retain all creative control (choice of dir. final editing decisions, sequel and liciencing rights, etc.) All this talent would like is to have some producing credit added to their name. I got no problem with that. i just want to know what is a fair amount of the producer's share to give if his fans do end up funding the majority of the budget.

Thanks again for all the replies!
 
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JetMonkey said:
I'm not a greedy person but I really do think after all the blood sweat and time I've devoted to this project.
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I hear you, just keep in mind cash is king. not blood, sweat, or time.
You could hit up that entertainment lawyer you talked to last time.

I have great instincts and I'm pretty smart but I've yet to tackle a feature film or get investment.

40k is a hell of a lot for a proof of concept, made me interested to go back and see your other threads.

Is this the same project?
http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=30844
 
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Thanks.. oh yeah, this proof of concept/short is going to kick some butt! I'll put a link on here when it's ready.

I did get in contact with the entertainment lawyer. He's on vacation so he won't be able to give me a sound answer for a couple weeks.
 
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JetMonkey said:
Thanks.. oh yeah, this proof of concept/short is going to kick some butt! I'll put a link on here when it's ready.

I did get in contact with the entertainment lawyer. He's on vacation so he won't be able to give me a sound answer for a couple weeks.
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Very cool, looking forward to seeing it.
How did it get the attention of this actor - winning awards or did they happen to see it at a festival?

I'm currently working on my ambitious short film but it's a long term project involving some crazy body transformation stuff i'm putting myself through. I just hope it doesn't suck :lol:

One last thing that occurs to me - You could look at the difference between angel investors and investors after a company already has a proven concept and profitability. Money goes further at the ground floor because it's seen as a higher risk.
 
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