Experienced Executive Producer Needed

[Lauran]

I agree. “It could happen.” and “You never know.” are strong statements
that are impossible to argue. You are right, you never know who is on a
board and it could happen.

For those of us who have been contributing here for more than a year we
see many filmmakers post for the first time asking for money. Most simply
never return. Many get defensive and argumentative and even hostile when
offered a touch of realism. Very few are like you.


Of course. Because most agents are not interested in attaching their clients
to an unfunded project. Most actors are not in the business of helping first
time directors get their project made. They are in the business of earning a
living. When you have money, agents will take you far more seriously. Thus
the catch-22, right?

Not all of them do. Sometimes a filmmaker will find someone who just wants
to raise money and give total creative control to the writer/director. It could
happen. You never know. Usually that person is a personal friend of the filmmaker
who has total and complete trust in their personal friend and they are given
the “Executive Producer” credit as a thank you. Some executive producers get
the credit because they do nothing but bring on talent. But what YOU want is
someone who doesn't know you to sign on to your project and work hard for
no money. No money up front, anyway. I suppose it could happen. You never
know, right?

You have quite a challenge ahead of you. But it seems you have the right
attitude. My advice is to take a few steps back and rework your pitch. Finding
someone to find financing for a project that is already listed on IMDb and has
most of the cast and crew already attached is daunting. It's not an attractive
project for most experienced executive producers. One, no up front money
means they will ONLY get anything if they succeed in getting full funding. Two,
very little creative input. Three, they will have to put together a line item
budget (for no pay) before they can even start looking for financing. So you
have narrowed down the type of EP who may be interested in your project.

Thank you for taking the time and energy to reply directorik. I feel you are totally right.

To be honest, I feel my script and cast and crew choices are a no-brainer for someone who has money to invest in film. This movie has great potential to make a lot of money and it hurts to even ask for finance. I so would prefer to pay for this myself, have control and reap the profits. But that's the way it is right now.

Given the amount I've given to this movie and had no pay, I just don't see it as too hard for someone to come in as executive producer to take it from here. The cast and crew - in particular Dani Lima who is the female lead - have already given so much to this movie. We all have. My understanding - OK it may be another bit of ignorance on my part - is that executive producers get handsomely paid from helping launch successful movies. I feel this is a great opportunity for the right person. And you're right, it's a very specific kind of right person.

It just takes one.

 

[Lauran]

At a guess, I'd say you're looking for 4 positions to be filled.

Line Producer - budget.
Producer - Taking over your role as producer. This is the general in your army. They're the ones that know all this.
Executive Producer - Finance / package sourcing.
PMD - Producer of Marketing and Distribution - A relatively new coined term in the indie world. They're specialists focusing on the marketing, selling and distribution of your film.



That line alone is why I say you'll want to recruit a producer.



The best way to describe executive producers is a match maker. Investors are looking for good projects/filmmakers to invest in. Filmmakers are looking for investors. Finding teams that are a good fit for each other is what they do. They know people.

Another category of EP is those who know and can attach the talent that allows for projects to be greenlit and never source money at all.

Of course there are others who blur the role between traditional producer and EP.



I suspect APE means that they're unlikely to look for the money for you. They'll be uninterested in your project.



The larger problem for Lauren and her project is the perception it creates. There is a possibility that a producers assistant catches the thread in a google keyword report. The assistant reads the thread. It throws up a red flag. The red flag would scream, "I'm unaware of how movies are financed, run away". Since Lauren's real name is attached to this thread, her name could potentially also be attached to that red flag.

We all have to learn and that is what a lot of us are doing here.



This is worth reading, again and again and again. It's quite a complex topic.

There is something in filmmaking called the "Package". It is the most important part of whether a film will receive finance or not. When you're talking about financing, the package is way more important than the script. Working on that package is the job of the producer. It requires knowledge of finance, distribution, sales, tax credits and the list continues.

Virtually every independent production that has ever crossed my desk (and seen on this forum) has been struck with this kiss of death. Filmmaking is risky. Without taking steps to mitigate risk, the chances of finance decline from almost zero to less than that.



There's a couple of additional reasons you're having trouble outside the financing.

A). You're inexperienced.
B). You're not going through proper channels. YOU are going direct to their agent.

In your position, you really need to drop a wad of cash (which you probably don't have) and hire a Casting Director. They'll cost you about $10k. In my opinion, it's your only real option if you want a name attached. Since you're a nobody, your name won't open doors. You won't be able to raise financing, so in all likelihood, you're going to have to pull it out of your own pocket. That casting director can help you get letters of intent from some B and possibly lower tier A level talent. At that point, you can start to get the real ball rolling, perhaps then even getting some presales to show proof of concept for investors.



Keep on asking questions. If people write you a decent amount, a one line response rarely comes off well.

One thing to keep in mind, just as there are many different ways to write and/or direct a movie, there are many different ways to raise finance. It's almost an art form unto itself. The methods that Rik pointed out aren't your only options.

PS. I think your million dollar ask is insane.

Thanks for replying Sweetie. I'm going to mull over what you said. I don't agree that going for $1 million is 'insane' as you suggest - in fact I was recently told it was crazy to go for that amount because I really should be going for $6-8 million to be taken seriously - but whatever, it's all appreciated information/views and it's up to me to sort it out and make my (amazing!) movie.

You will see.

 

[directorik]

To be honest, I feel my script and cast and crew choices are a no-brainer for someone who has money to invest in film.

The harsh truth is most movies do not make money. Movies without “name” talent
are an even harder sell to the public. Experienced EP's know this. If I had just $10
for every “no-brainer” I have been pitched I could finance your movie and have
money left over. I happen to know a producer who is looking for an action script for
a name actress but is having a difficult time getting the money. I am NOT putting
your project down, I'm just saying that realistically your project sounds like a heavy
risk and not a “no-brainer” at all. A movie about a female contract killer with an
unknown in the lead is a hard sell.

My understanding - OK it may be another bit of ignorance on my part - is that executive producers get handsomely paid from helping launch successful movies.

Yes, if a movie hits and is successful then EP's can make a lot of money. But so few
make any money at all that it is a great risk. And since you are offering almost no
creative input to an EP the ONLY incentive is lots and lots of money if it (sorry) WHEN
it beats all odds and is successful.

I, too, hope you can find someone who believes in your project as much as you do.
As you have said, it could happen.

BTW: Do you have a full, complete line-item budget finished?

 

[Sweetie]

I don't agree that going for $1 million is 'insane' as you suggest - in fact I was recently told it was crazy to go for that amount because I really should be going for $6-8 million to be taken seriously

You know how you see a kid trying to achieve some backyard stunt and you can see it a mile away that they're going to end up face first in the dirt. It's that kind of thing.

You never gain the experience if you don't live it, so go and live it. Try it out. See what works for you and what doesn't. I knew you wouldn't agree and that's fine. It's a finance/recoupment thing.

I consider it the career killer price range. The 6-8mil range is even tougher but not impossible.

Raising money is hard. Even for successful established directors.

With the way technology is these days, there's no reason you cannot get down in the trenches and make your film guerilla style for almost zero money. I do hope you succeed, though if you fail to find your financing and your story is as amazing as you think it is, I seriously hope you consider the no budget route an option.

 

[Sweetie]

I feel my script and cast and crew choices are a no-brainer for someone who has money to invest in film.

Don't answer this here, but for this to be true for a savvy investor, you'll need to know the answer to this question:

What makes your cast and key crew marketable. What's their hook to your target market?

Notice we're talking ONLY the cast and crew. Not the story. Not the movie. Only the people attached.

Tom Cruise = no brainer. Spielberg = no brainer. Jerry Bruckheimer = no brainer (unless you're Disney). What makes your cast and/or crew as valuable (to a lesser number obviously) as any of those. Remember, valuable to your target market.

I just don't see it as too hard for someone to come in as executive producer to take it from here. [snip]... have already given so much to this movie.

There's a concept of sunk cost. Once you learn it, it'll help you understand that people only care about the current value. All the work, effort and/or investment up to that point doesn't really matter. For the most part, potential value doesn't even matter. The only thing that matters is the current value combined with the potential risk/reward.

Then again, there is also the concept of dumb money.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

Hi AudioPostExpert - so who would go after the money besides me if the executive producer doesn't work on that?

No one.

[1] My understanding - OK it may be another bit of ignorance on my part - is that executive producers get handsomely paid from helping launch successful movies. [2] I feel this is a great opportunity for the right person. [3] And you're right, it's a very specific kind of right person.

1. Yes, exec producers do usually get paid handsomely for helping to launch successful movies. Of course though, the opposite is just as true; they usually don't get paid handsomely for helping to launch unsuccessful movies! This is where your problem lies; there are maybe 50,000 micro and low budget indie movies made per year and only a tiny fraction, probably somewhere around 1 in a 1,000, earn $1m or more. Furthermore, there is likely to be at least 10 times (and maybe 100 or more times) that number at the same stage as you, IE. Not yet made/looking for funding to be made. That's incredibly poor odds! To get to and maintain the position of experienced professional exec producer means they have been successful at beating those terrible odds, at mitigating their risk.

2. Baring in mind point #1 above and that making a feature is a complex undertaking where so much can go wrong and even relatively small mistakes can ruin a film, which presents the lower risk: An experienced director, cast and crew with proven track records or a first-time director, who knows little/nothing about the film business and with an inexperienced cast and crew? ... You are correct, on the face of it, to an experienced exec producer, your proposal is indeed a no-brainer, a no-brainer to avoid! Having said this, in the 100 odd year history of commercial filmmaking one can find exceptions to virtually every filmmaking rule. In other words, anyone with a good basic understanding of the film industry knows never to use the word "impossible". On the other hand, those few exceptions get a hugely disproportionate amount of press, easily leading the inexperienced to believe that their chances are far higher than near impossible.

3. Baring in mind the last sentence of point #1. You are essentially looking for an experienced exec producer who is willing to ignore the very thing which has made them an experienced exec producer. Again, not absolutely impossible but ....

One last point, what you have heard is essentially correct in my opinion. Making a commercially viable action movie with a $1m budget is possible but very unlikely. It's very unlikely even for a very experienced director with a lot of connections and obviously far less likely still for a first-timer without connections. An experienced exec producer would therefore take your asking for $1m as a red flag, knowing that $7-8m is a far more realistic budget but again, it's a catch 22, $7-8m is an even more unacceptable risk to take on an unproven first-timer.

Nothing is impossible but in my opinion you are currently looking a lottery type odds. You therefore have 4 choices: 1. Carry on as you are and hope to effectively win the lottery, 2. Give up, 3. Make your film anyway, without funding, just for the experience of it or 4. Do something to drastically improve your odds, IE. Learn how the film industry works, develop and prove you have the type of filmmaking talent/ability the industry is looking for and devise a realistic plan for making a commercially viable action movie for $1m.

In my experience most of those in your position take choices 1 followed by 2. Although some take 1 followed by 3 followed by 2 and some don't give up but get trapped in a cycle of 1 and 3. The reason for this is that most are simply not dedicated enough, their impatience rules out choice #4 because of the time and effort it requires. And, even taking choice 4 is certainly no absolute guarantee of success, it just improves your odds.

G

 

[Lauran]

Thanks for your replies guys - I'm thinking about what you said. directorik - no I don't have a full line budget. Sweetie - right now I don't mind if someone googles me and sees what I've said. I don't have to know everything.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

directorik - no I don't have a full line budget. Sweetie - right now I don't mind if someone googles me and sees what I've said. I don't have to know everything.

Nobody knows everything, does that mean someone who knows nothing has as good a chance as someone who knows a lot? If you had $1m to invest in a film, would you invest it with someone who knows nothing and has never made a film before or would you invest it in someone who has demonstrated filmmaking knowledge and ability? Which odds would you take?

G

 

[directorik]

directorik - no I don't have a full line budget.

How do you know what the movie will cost? 1 mil or 5/6 mil?

So not only do you need someone who will find money for your movie
for no pay but you need someone to put together a full line item budget
for no pay. You know I'm not trying to discourage you, only helping you
fully understand exactly what you are asking; two experienced people
to work for you for no pay. Yes, someday there might be money to be
made and yes, there might be a lot of money. But the odds are there
will never be any money.

An inexperienced EP may be willing to take the risk to build their resume
and experience. Have you considered looking within your circle of friends
and acquaintances for someone who believes in you and your project to
take on this role? All it takes is one. You never know.

 

[Lauran]

Nobody knows everything, does that mean someone who knows nothing has as good a chance as someone who knows a lot? If you had $1m to invest in a film, would you invest it with someone who knows nothing and has never made a film before or would you invest it in someone who has demonstrated filmmaking knowledge and ability? Which odds would you take?

G

I don't know about finance. My executive producer will. And really it depends on the entity - just because someone is untried doesn't mean they can't do a great job and just because someone's been in the industry for a long time doesn't mean that they can do a great job either. My script, cast and ideas are really good and will excite a lot of people. Including potential investors.

 

[Lauran]

How do you know what the movie will cost? 1 mil or 5/6 mil?

So not only do you need someone who will find money for your movie
for no pay but you need someone to put together a full line item budget
for no pay. You know I'm not trying to discourage you, only helping you
fully understand exactly what you are asking; two experienced people
to work for you for no pay. Yes, someday there might be money to be
made and yes, there might be a lot of money. But the odds are there
will never be any money.

An inexperienced EP may be willing to take the risk to build their resume
and experience. Have you considered looking within your circle of friends
and acquaintances for someone who believes in you and your project to
take on this role? All it takes is one. You never know.

Thanks for your reply directorik. I don't know anyone who I think could do that job. And isn't it better if someone comes on board who knows the industry more and has connections?

 

[AudioPostExpert]

... just because someone is untried doesn't mean they can't do a great job...

Of course it does! Can someone who has never played a violin do a great job giving a violin recital or are you more likely to get a great job from a professional violinist? What about an untrained, untried brain surgeon or aircraft mechanic, how about a racing driver who has never even driven a car before? The list goes on and on! There are a lot of very skilled roles involved in making a commercially viable film, roles which someone who has never tried before has virtually no chance of doing competently, let alone doing a "great job".

And isn't it better if someone comes on board who knows the industry more and has connections?

Apparently not, apparently someone who is untried can do a great job.

Apparently, you are taking choice #1 (which I mentioned earlier) and you're now contradicting yourself to justify that choice. I'm not trying to antagonise you Lauran or dissuade you from trying to make your film, I'm trying to help you confront and deal with the difficulties you are and will face rather than ignore them, as ignoring them will almost inevitably lead you on to choice #2.

G

 

[directorik]

double post

 

[directorik]

Thanks for your reply directorik. I don't know anyone who I think could do that job. And isn't it better if someone comes on board who knows the industry more and has connections?

It is. However someone once wrote that just because someone is untried
doesn't mean they can't do a great job. Perhaps you are passing on
someone you know who could do a great job but is untried. As I (and
others) have pointed out, what you want is rather unreasonable. An
industry professional with connections who will have no creative input
because you have already attached the lead and key crew. Someone
who is only needed by you to find money. And who will only be paid if
they succeed. This really seems to be a job for that untried person who
is dedicated and willing to learn along the way.

I believe we have hit the impasse. You have been open to hearing
the professional points of view and have chosen to stick with your
method. There is nothing more I can offer. But my door is open. If
you have any questions or decide to try a different method of finding
an experienced EP then please contact me. As I mentioned before, I
know a producer who is looking for a terrific action script with a female
lead - but he is looking for one without attachments. He's even open
to the writer directing. There are many possibilities out there. Your
project comes with a lot of restrictions making it more difficult. But
it could happen, right? You never know.

I honestly wish you the best with your project. I hope you stick around
indietalk to tell us of your progress.

 

[sfoster]

Apparently not, apparently someone who is untried can do a great job.

This was hilarious

 

[Morris]

While this was years ago, even established directors can have trouble raising funds. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...pielbergs-DreamWorks-struggling-for-cash.html

 

[sfoster]

While this was years ago, even established directors can have trouble raising funds. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...pielbergs-DreamWorks-struggling-for-cash.html

Yeah he couldn't find $1.2 billion lol

 

[Lauran]

Of course it does! Can someone who has never played a violin do a great job giving a violin recital or are you more likely to get a great job from a professional violinist? What about an untrained, untried brain surgeon or aircraft mechanic, how about a racing driver who has never even driven a car before? The list goes on and on! There are a lot of very skilled roles involved in making a commercially viable film, roles which someone who has never tried before has virtually no chance of doing competently, let alone doing a "great job".



Apparently not, apparently someone who is untried can do a great job.

Apparently, you are taking choice #1 (which I mentioned earlier) and you're now contradicting yourself to justify that choice. I'm not trying to antagonise you Lauran or dissuade you from trying to make your film, I'm trying to help you confront and deal with the difficulties you are and will face rather than ignore them, as ignoring them will almost inevitably lead you on to choice #2.

G

Thanks for your reply AudioPostExpert - I'm glad you're not trying to antagonise or dissuade me.

I'm not contradicting myself - an executive producer would do well to have connections, but a director has a lot of people to help her do a great job. Yes, even for a first film. Are there not many directors who did really good jobs on their first films? What about Tarantino or Almodovar for example?

 

[Lauran]

It is. However someone once wrote that just because someone is untried
doesn't mean they can't do a great job. Perhaps you are passing on
someone you know who could do a great job but is untried. As I (and
others) have pointed out, what you want is rather unreasonable. An
industry professional with connections who will have no creative input
because you have already attached the lead and key crew. Someone
who is only needed by you to find money. And who will only be paid if
they succeed. This really seems to be a job for that untried person who
is dedicated and willing to learn along the way.

I believe we have hit the impasse. You have been open to hearing
the professional points of view and have chosen to stick with your
method. There is nothing more I can offer. But my door is open. If
you have any questions or decide to try a different method of finding
an experienced EP then please contact me. As I mentioned before, I
know a producer who is looking for a terrific action script with a female
lead - but he is looking for one without attachments. He's even open
to the writer directing. There are many possibilities out there. Your
project comes with a lot of restrictions making it more difficult. But
it could happen, right? You never know.

I honestly wish you the best with your project. I hope you stick around
indietalk to tell us of your progress.

Thank you directorik. I really thought I was doing the right thing by putting most of the cast and some crew together myself - so what's the better thing to do? To write the script then get an executive producer?

This thread has been an education for me. I didn't think an executive producer would need to be so creatively involved.

Actually I don't have a lot of crew in place - I have a DP and a sound engineer. And there are three roles left - Mickey Malone, Bernadette Malone, and Doreen. Doreen is an older West Indian woman and there's so much talk of it being hard for black women to find roles but I haven't had so much response for that one. Same with Ella, which is another role for a black woman and needs to be filled. But I would really like name actors for the first three.

Interesting about your producer friend. Maybe we should talk. He could read my script and he would like it and I could write him another one!

Yes I am definitely open to finding other ways of getting an experienced EP. Do you mean I should message you?

Thank you for your best wishes - very appreciated. Yes I will report on progress. Actually a woman has contacted me wanting to help produce the movie.

Last thing - I was working on another script tonight (a horror one). When I finish it you think I should first get an executive producer? (Yes repetition of above, just more specific.)

 

[moonshieldmedia]

This is just my initial reaction to reading the title of this post, but when I see the title "Executive Producer Needed" I automatically think "ok, someone is asking for money"

A far better approach might be just using the general term "Producer." The reason is because someone coming on board to work on your film will do so because they want to be invested in the project, they want to work with you and give input and use their expertise to help the film succeed, they probably dont want to write a check, walk away, and hope to get money back later. Although not all the time, I'd say MOST of the time, the Executive Producer is someone who has put down a lot of money or who is just in charge of finding money, and has very little creative input on the film. That's all fine for a mainstream Hollywood film production because that model works, but on the indie film level, it needs to be more like a family, everybody working together for a common goal. That person might end up being credited as the Exec Producer in the end, but that doesn't matter. The approach is what matters.