Does Anyone Else Worry . . .

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC

What is a safe number of backup actors to cast and hold in reserve from the lead roles to the supporting roles to extras to get your production made? Actors will always drop out for one reason or another in a small production.

Your thoughts . . .
 
This is precisely why I didn't hold auditions. It's one thing if you're offering professional pay -- then, you don't have to worry about people showing up -- they will show up for SAG salaries. But if you're like me, and you're working with volunteers, or people who are willing to work for peanuts, trust is extremely important. On shorts I've produced in the past, people have commited to show up, and seemed genuinely interested, but then flaked. I got tired of that, and found that working by reference alone works much better for me, at this ultra-low-budget level. I had the good fortune of working with a dude, on a 48HFP a couple years ago -- not only was he talented, but he really took his craft seriously, and was very dependable. I figured -- whoever this guy trusts, I can trust. I've been working with his group of friends (a large pool, from a theater dept.), ever since, and it hasn't gone wrong. If you can cast people you can trust, you need no backups.
 
I my cast, I trust the cast from my previous production. They have weathered the test of time. For my new production, I've had people from 4 new roles flake already. I told the returning actors, if they were the only actors the new production required, we could work without contracts. But with all the new roles, I have to give a contract to everyone to be fair. Even with a contract, some actors will still flake. But, it will cut down the numbers.

This is a good discussion. CF and I are not the only ones on this board to have problems with flakes. Eugene a.k.a. IndieBudget has already shared some of his stories in other threads as well as additional fellow filmmakers have told their stories.

Casting for small fries productions (and I am very small fries myself) just gets very fustrating when you get delayed because you must recast because a critical actor flaked.

That's why I like to cast more actors than I need just to cover myself so the production gets made.
 
When I was making animatics a few years ago and called in a group of actors to do voice over work, I paid them $20 an hour. To my surprise, most of them returned the money and told me I needed the money more than them. They were just happy to be able to help a fellow artist looking to make something. So, with actors, it's not always about the money.
 
No, of course it's not always about the money (the talent on my feature worked for peanuts, and were definitely in it for the passion of the art). But when it comes to getting people to show up, it can take time to build a network of talent you can really rely on.

When I mention money, all I'm saying is that if we had real budgets, to pay people SAG wages, we wouldn't be having this conversation. SAG wages are a nice paycheck, and talent will show up for that, even if they think the production is going to stink.

Guys like us, however, we need the talent to really believe in the project. We need the talent to believe that they will have an opportunity to create a terrific work of art, and perhaps we can find a way to benifit from it, as far as gaining publicity or whatever.

Gaining that confidence in people takes time. It's a total Catch-22. In order to make something awesome, you need good talent. But in order to get good talent, you need to make something awesome. Such is the struggle of the ultra-low-budget indie filmmaker. But you gotta just keep plugging along, networking as best as you can, developing relationships with people you like to work with. Patience, time and moxie.
 
I don't worry about it. I've never had anyone flake out of a lead or supporting role because I find out about their character in the audition and consider it when casting. Even on the two minute effects shorts we do between larger productions, we work with people we trust as the "leads".

I have had some BG actors and extras not show up, but even then, we invite based on character. They called at least a day or two ahead of time. The one guy who didn't show up without advanced notice on the last thing we did had a legitimate excuse and apologized and really wants to be a part of the next.

Find people you can trust, work with them. If there's absolutely no one you can trust when everyone is working for free, you're probably doing something wrong. Even then, you can trust more people when a paycheck is invloves, so pay them. Even at $40-100 a day, it at least cancels excuses like "I can't afford gas to get there".
 
I'm curious:

How do you hold leads or supporting actors in reserve? Kind of
like an understudy in a theater production? How does that work
if you have shot, say, four days with an actor and they drop out?
 
I've cast more than one actor for a role all the way to shooting days and some flaked, and the ones who kept showing up ended up in the footage

I cast 3 gunmen for the original I, Creator when the script called for two. By the time we had to shoot, we were down to the original 2 the script called for.

For the new production, there should be 4 silver demon hunters. . Right now I have 6, expecting to lose a couple with the flake factor.

An actress who vanished for 3 months just called me today asking about the production. I told her 3 months of silence means no interest and other actresses who are highly qualified for her role are being cast.. So, she is either in or out. She seems to have some difficulty understanding English. So I asked her to speak with an actress in the cast who is firmly committed to explain it to her in her native language. So, she is doing that before she decides.

For every actor flaking this time, someone better is coming in to audition for their part. We are building a cast with both strong stunt experience and better acting skills.
 
FWIW, the more you as a director establish a reputation for yourself, the fewer problems you'll have with actors flaking. I know it may not be much consolation right now, but it's something to look forward to. :)

When I first started out making films I had the same issues. But now that I've done a number of highly regarded works - both on film and on stage - serious actors will go the extra mile to work with me. My current film was shot over a 2-year period (not intentionally, it just worked out that way for a number of reasons) but the actors stuck with it and made personal sacrifices to see it through because they trusted me.

Now CREW flakes are an entirely different kettle of fish... :rolleyes:
 
Cracker Funk said:
It's one thing if you're offering professional pay -- then, you don't have to worry about people showing up -- they will show up for SAG salaries. .
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I thought the same thing man, until the day of shooting my first film... my lead disappeared off the face of the earth. Conclusively I've avoided their acting agency altogether for my projects.

On the topic though I personally see "flaking", as it has been so well put, as a great learning process, whether it is a professional or an "amateur" you're working with (as much as I hate the word amateur). I would never consider casting reserve actors for a role, its just the way I work- what I do make a point of doing though is keep in touch with the actor(s) through the pre-production process- on paper its what my producer does, but I see the constant contact as a good ice-breaker if its an individual I havent worked with before. Don't cast multiple actors for a single role- make your auditions count and have confidence in your choice(s) in both their ability and their tenacity.

Networking is a powerful thing, if an aspiring actor gets the part and lets you down, talk about it amongst filmmaking circuits- your networks- a "no show" is very unprofessional, no matter what level you are working at, no matter whether you are a goodwill filmmaker or working with a pay cheque, this is fact- if you talk, said person will get a reputation, and perhaps a hesitation when auditioning for future work.

My 2 cents!
 
Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
I've cast more than one actor for a role all the way to shooting days and some flaked, and the ones who kept showing up ended up in the footage

I cast 3 gunmen for the original I, Creator when the script called for two. By the time we had to shoot, we were down to the original 2 the script called for.
Click to expand...
I see. So you are asking about casting several different actors
for each role before the shooting starts so you don't have any
worries of someone drops out before you shoot,

Is that correct?
 
Yes!

Casting reminds me of college classes. On my first day of college Chemistry, the professor told us to look to our left, then look to our right. By the end of the semister the people on either side of you will dropout. And, he was right. People tend to bail out when they spread themselves too thin. Actors tend to stretch themselves too thin by trying to get involved with too many productions at the same time.
 
Jamster said:
So what happens if you cast three lead males and 2 show up on the day?
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That's my question, too.

Hiring actors is quite different than a college class. What happens if
on the day before you shoot all of the actors you have for the lead
or supporting role are still interested? Now I understand if they are
minor characters like three gunman. Sure, the script calls for two
but three would have been fine. I don't see how you can do that
with speaking parts; especially lead or supporting parts.
 
They are trained for multiple roles. The law of averages are high if they have agents, a good percentage will get pulled to something where the agents will get a paid commission and I would lose out without backups for their roles.

Case in point, I have an actress coming in a week from this Sunday to audition for 2 main cyborg roles. The costume, gear, and look will not change for the 2 character. Just the acting of the type of character, her lines, and level of stunts. I already told her, since she just graduated from the best acting school in all of NY, she can handle the 2 different range of characters: one a totally synthetic cyborg who uses rules and logic to make decissions with a photographic memory who proceccess more information than a human and looks at more possibilities in nanoseconds than a human can in a life time. And the other is a cyborg with a human brain with an on board computer. She is up for the challenge. This way two big roles are covered.
 
So you telll them up front that you're not sure which part they'll play until the day, so please rehearse for two roles - is that correct?

Jim.
 
I explain the nature of what is going on and why so many backups are needed. This Sunday two actresses who simply want to be part of a science fiction action adventure production will audition for 2 roles and will settle for just the one role later when we shoot.

I make sure they are in the same character group. We have 3 stunt coordinators with one main because we have 3 groups of characters. That is the best part of a science fiction military production. The cyborgs and silver demon hunters dress identical so their group's stunt dummy can be swapped out for them for shots that will show physical hits and punishment.

The human Amazons don't have a stunt dummy and look more diverse. But, they are soldiers and dress in uniform, which helps.
 
If I could only deal with their agents and was not allowed to talk to the talent directly and one on one, I couldn't work out deals like this. When I can deal directly with the talent and they like what they see in the producction, these deals can be made. The talent with agents know exactly what I'm up against too.
 
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