Does a short film have to be that good?

I've noticed a lot of newbie wanna become directors, on here, are worried about not being able to come up with much of a good story for a short film. But don't a lot of critics at the film festivals and people in the business realize that short films are just for directors to pitch their craft, and it's not that the story matters as much, but the editing, sound, acting, etc. Or am I wrong and they highly value story, even though story is not exactly the director's job?
 
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I did some research and asking around, and some people believe that the RED is only good if your movie is going to be shown in IMAX, otherwise there is no other reason to use it since DVD and most theater formats is 1080p, and not higher. However, since technology is advancing more 2000p might become the new standard in a couple of years. Does this mean if I wanna make a feature in 1080p, I have theoretically only a couple of years to do it, before the format becomes riskily obsolete?

You have to research a bit more... or a lot more. The advantages of shooting RED (especially MX) are far and many beyond just resolution. We shot RED MX on our micro-budget feature because we didn't have a lot of money. It allows us to be a lot more flexible in post.
 
Wow, I wish my work sucked as hard as "Panic Attack" so that I was offered a high-profile directing job. And by "sucked" I mean engaging and widely viewed.

Engaging? Too each their own. Some people think Transformers 3 is a masterpiece as well.

Just because something gets recognized doesn't make it good or great. It just means someone saw something they liked and decided to push it. Go make a Panic Attack and see if you can get into the same spot that he did.

Have fun.
 
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Yes I know, I admit I asked a dumb question.

You did not ask a dumb question . . . its a perfectly legit question in this day and age of techie freaks -- they'll bury you with nonsense if you let them. Keep your story first and use with whatever equipment you can AFFORD.

Beware of techies who insist films should only be made with the latest and hottest . . . Your money should be used to tell a great story -- not buying cool toys for the techies to use.

Good luck.
 
You did not ask a dumb question . . . its a perfectly legit question in this day and age of techie freaks -- they'll bury you with nonsense if you let them. Keep your story first and use with whatever equipment you can AFFORD.

Beware of techies who insist films should only be made with the latest and hottest . . . Your money should be used to tell a great story -- not buying cool toys for the techies to use.

Good luck.

To clarify for all that are having problems digesting this vast complexity.

It is not a choice between story and presentation, Story First, production quality second, marketing third

Forget any part, and you'll be making another contribution to the Indie film graveyard

There is too much competition to follow stupid advice, such as "only think about the script, nothing else matters"

Though it tires me to do so, I will explain, since I have not before.

You cannot sell movies for anything unless there is a recognized actor on the box. A recognized actor costs a lot of money. By the time you spend 50-100k on 1 actor, your production has to scale up or the business model makes no sense. Once the production scales up, you would be likely to loose money on your total gross by filming in a lesser format. So the red isn't the most expensive, hippest new toy, It's literally the cheapest MOVIE camera you can buy. The Cheapest. It is a tool, it is not a new Iphone and no one telling you about them is some dumb kid that says he can't have a conversation because his phone is "from last year"

But this comment is irrelevant right, because you aren't actually trying to sell movies and make a living. You are trying to go have fun with your friends. For that, buy any camera, buy any socks, it doesn't matter. You're not getting bad advice, you're just asking the wrong questions, and that's causing you to get confused by the answers.

If you really feel like you are ready to take a single production from start to finish and see it through to the rental isle, buy or rent a good camera, doesn't have to be a red. Saw an F-900 on auction today for 1500 bucks. They shot a Tom Cruise movie and Episode 1 with it.

http://www.i-bidder.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/techbid/catalogue-id-1989?page=2

(and this is just to annoy people that jumped to this conclusion when I was not saying this at all 100 times)

And you should totally forget story. The only thing that matters is that you buy whatever is trending on twitter. That's how real filmmakers are made. Of course that's what I meant by "dont film a good movie with a bad camera"
 
To clarify for all that are having problems digesting this vast complexity.

I'll add 2 more cents to help with the digestion . . . :)

For a feature film $25k and under

1) Story (A great script matching the money you actually have)
2) Acting (One "name" actor would be nice but not likely for most us, but everyone else in the film MUST give believable performaces)
3) direction, filmmaking techniques, editing
4) equipment and shooting format

After the film is completed,

1) Marketing
2) Marketing
3) Marketing

:cool:
 
Dead on Guerilla. There is no important part, the whole thing is important. That is the key mentality.


So to try and wrap up this incredible question

Does a short film have to be that good?

Yes. The answer is yes.

What will a bad film do for you?
 
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Engaging? Too each their own. Some people think Transformers 3 is a masterpiece as well.

Michael Bay is a hack compared to the kid who made "Panic Attack." My point is that you chose a terrible example to illustrate what constitutes a "bad" short film. I like the movie. Still do. Is it high art? Hell, no. But it's entertaining, and good enough to have gone massively viral -- unlike anything you or I have done, since we're both posting here instead of being too busy making our next Hollywood movie masterpiece.

Too many filmmakers -- always ones who haven't yet made it big -- are elitist snobs about other people's work. It's a tiresome, boring, cringe-inducing attitude. I haven't read enough of your posts to know if you're this kind of person, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

But it's often harder for certain people to support indie filmmakers by pointing out what they did right. "Panic Attack" is the perfect paradigm of how to make a short that gets Hollywood's attention. Bravo for that guy. You can see the hard work and sincere effort that went into it. "Panic Attack" isn't Kubrick -- it's simply fun, which is all it was trying to be. And it succeeded, which is not an easy task.

Give it props where props are due. Is that so much to ask?
 
Michael Bay is a hack compared to the kid who made "Panic Attack."
... The Kid? It's a Grown Man, and he's not new to the industry.

... And Michael Bay a Hack in comparison?

Well............................. .. . . okay.....

My point is that you chose a terrible example to illustrate what constitutes a "bad" short film. I like the movie. Still do.

The consensus is that it's a bad short film, if even that. A VFX Reel. So you like it... cool. It doesn't change the majority vote, which you can get a feel for right there in the Comments.

You're one out of thirty so far that view it as an actual narrative short film. High art? Nothing to do with it.

and good enough to have gone massively viral -- unlike anything you or I have done, since we're both posting here instead of being too busy making our next Hollywood movie masterpiece.

You're making assumptions without any info and they're dead wrong.

Just because I'm posting here doesn't mean I'm not busy. This is 2011, multi-tasking surged in 1999. Those who succeed keep up with the planet via the internet. Again, no offense, but I don't feel you're speaking for yourself.

Too many filmmakers -- always ones who haven't yet made it big -- are elitist snobs about other people's work. It's a tiresome, boring, cringe-inducing attitude. I haven't read enough of your posts to know if you're this kind of person, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

And too many against elitist snobs the same. I stay on the fence: just because I feel that you don't need a good short to succeed doesn't make me an elitist or opposite of. But, if we were actually judging things on someone's post, I'd say your immediacy to deflect, defend and passively-attack is pretty apparent.

In your opinion the short is a good one. In mines it's not much of a short versus a VFX test.

That's fine by me. Hopefully, that's also cool with you.
But it's often harder for certain people to support indie filmmakers by pointing out what they did right. "Panic Attack" is the perfect paradigm of how to make a short that gets Hollywood's attention. Bravo for that guy. You can see the hard work and sincere effort that went into it. "Panic Attack" isn't Kubrick -- it's simply fun, which is all it was trying to be. And it succeeded, which is not an easy task.

Give it props where props are due. Is that so much to ask?

AT the end of the day, the work is out there and just like any other major production it should stand up on it's own two feet. As a filmmaker (working) it's cool that this guy (who isn't new to any of this) got himself a VFX spectacle to show and made a deal of it.

It does not mean that it's good, great, or anything close to it. It just shows that he can see a project through from start to finish and garner some attention from the public, regardless of a complete lack of story, character building, etc.

Wait... sounds like... Michael Bay.
 
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In defense of Micheal Bay. He isn't a good story director, we all know that. But he is hardly untalented or weak. The movies he puts together are Huge, complex, and visually spectacular. It may not be your kind of film directing, but to say he's less skilled or experienced than random kids on the net is ridiculous.

While I agree that he's mentally handicapped when it comes to really communicating anything of substance, In many ways, he's a force to be reconed with. I dislike country music, but I don't say Tinsley Ellis can't play guitar.
 
In defense of Micheal Bay. He isn't a good story director, we all know that. But he is hardly untalented or weak. The movies he puts together are Huge, complex, and visually spectacular. It may not be your kind of film directing, but to say he's less skilled or experienced than random kids on the net is ridiculous.

While I agree that he's mentally handicapped when it comes to really communicating anything of substance, In many ways, he's a force to be reconed with. I dislike country music, but I don't say Tinsley Ellis can't play guitar.

Couldn't agree more, especially about Country Music. Haha.

The man's visuals represent the pinnacle of what we can achieve as filmmakers today. No matter how "bad" Transformers 3 might have been, there wasn't a single time that I questioned if the world created was real.

Seamless.
 
And panic boy put all his CGI in the fog, so he didn't have to do any detail work, Someone showed me this as an example of what was good, and I said, "Childs play"

A cliched concept with no story or acting that used cheap SFX and syntheyes to look better than it was.
 
There was another one making the rounds a while back that I can't recall the name of, but it was the same thing. Guy running through the streets with some type of robot things chasing him. Decent VFX work, but no story whatsoever, just a VFX reel.
 
That's it.
Don't begrudge the guy at all (ok, maybe a little). Good for him, don't really get why anybody would would make any decisions based on a somebody's ability to watch a lot of video co-pilot tutorials, but hey rock on.

It's never been more important to execute. I'm in Los Angeles, more than likely the biggest city of talkers you can find, for every one hot body executing at SOME level (bad or good) there are a good twenty talkers who aren't doing anything.

Execute, stay in the game, and you've got a higher chance that most already.

This is also kinda the reason why I chose a Superhero/Super Powered subject as our first feature film, versus going drama or anything else. It'd be the most likely to charge through to the current demographic of paying customers.

Which goes along with this thread: if I were doing a short film (I've only done half of one in my career as a director/writer, skipped right to a feature, but have shot lots of other people's material) I'd be focused on doing something popular. For the internet, and not so much for festivals.

The story would probably come second to making sure that it looked really good and was able to hold the attentions of talk-backers in comments, bloggers who would spread the word, etc. That's just me, though.

There are plenty example of bad web series or shorts that are seen by people with the potential to give someone a job like our Panic Attack! Friend's gotten. I personally have had sit downs with no-names that have gotten into Warner on Web Series concepts that were executed on the level of a film school affair, and are now being paid to write etc.

Anyway, there are many paths to walk... just gotta choose one and walk.
 
Couldn't agree more, especially about Country Music. Haha.

The man's visuals represent the pinnacle of what we can achieve as filmmakers today. No matter how "bad" Transformers 3 might have been, there wasn't a single time that I questioned if the world created was real.

Seamless.

You mean the pinnacle of VFX right? To me he's a guy who understands how to slash and burn with the latest technology. I enjoy his movies. But has he ever come up with an iconic visual image?

Thing about him is, when you consider the enormous, almost limitless resources he's give to make movies, he comes up a little weak doesn't he?
 
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