Does a short film have to be that good?

H

harmonica44

I've noticed a lot of newbie wanna become directors, on here, are worried about not being able to come up with much of a good story for a short film. But don't a lot of critics at the film festivals and people in the business realize that short films are just for directors to pitch their craft, and it's not that the story matters as much, but the editing, sound, acting, etc. Or am I wrong and they highly value story, even though story is not exactly the director's job?
 
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brianluce said:
You mean the pinnacle of VFX right? To me he's a guy who understands how to slash and burn with the latest technology. I enjoy his movies. But has he ever come up with an iconic visual image?
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Michael Bay won nearly every Commercial Award that a filmmaker can... in his 20's.

A heap of the commercial cliches you see came from this man's mind. Along with a few cinematic camera moves which he pretty much coined through his dynamic pacing.

Thing about him is, when you consider the enormous, almost limitless resources he's give to make movies, he comes up a little weak doesn't he?
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Storywise, yeah. The fact of the matter is that he's worth the budgets he gets because on some level he is successful at doing what movies were made for...

To entertain.

No, he isn't the best storyteller on the planet, but his work definitely represents the top tier cinema on a visual level that's not just limited to VFX.
 
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Well it's not that I just want to make movies with my friends, have fun, I want to get good enough to make REAL movie. One that I can distribute. I may not be able to get known actors, but hopefully I can market it to the foreign market since some foreign nations, like the USA, don't care so much whether nor not foreign films have known actors in. The Girl With the Dragon Tatoo for example did well and had no known actors. I heard The Human Centipede did reasonably well, even though I think it's one of the worst movies ever. I won't be able to afford known actors, unless I pitch it to somebody, and they like the script enough to put up the money.

But movies like that give me hope that the foreign market is key. I'm from Canada by the way.
 
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Kholi said:
The consensus is that it's a bad short film
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"Consensus." You use the word as if it's some inarguable, magical term that bestows absolute authority on what is simply opinion. While the millions of people who watched his movie constitute a real, actual consensus.

regardless of a complete lack of story, character building, etc.
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It's a short -- shorts can be whatever people want them to be. There aren't any rules, and you aren't the arbiter of what constitutes a short movie. As much as you'd like to be.
 
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DirtyPicturesTV said:
"Consensus." You use the word as if it's some inarguable, magical term that bestows absolute authority on what is simply opinion. While the millions of people who watched his movie constitute a real, actual consensus.
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If five people tell you that they think something is bad, and one person tells you that they think it's good... what does that mean?

Again, it's okay if you think it is, just as it should be okay for others to think it is not.
It's a short -- shorts can be whatever people want them to be. There aren't any rules, and you aren't the arbiter of what constitutes a short movie. As much as you'd like to be.
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Really? So, I'm confused then...

DirtyPicturesTV said:
Short films need to have one good idea around which to build them. They need, like any linear story, a beginning, middle, and end (by "linear," in mean in time, since we watch films in linear fashion even when a story is non-linear).

A perfect example of a short film structure is a story joke with a punchline: set-up, complication, dramatic climax, end. Commercials can be great short films, since they are very often built just like this.
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Was it someone else with the same name that said that in this thread???? If not, then there's a definition for what you've just done.

I think a constructive conversation relies less on emotions--which you're attaching to your words by creating a target out of me without knowing an iota of my background, and more on actual facts and tangible data.

I've presented tangible data in my response, you keep telling me who I am, what I've done, and now how I think; baffling.

Anyway, Harmonica... Canada isn't a foreign territory, as SinEater already points out. Just realize what your goal is with whatever you do and follow that path. Bad or good, if you get people to pay attention then it doesn't matter.
 
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Kholi said:
Been waiting to post in this thread . Have read most of the responses, but forgive me if someone already said this:

No a short film does not have to be good.

The only thing that matters is how you exposed it and who you expose it too. These things don't walk on their own.

Case in point: http://www.slashfilm.com/panic-attack-short-film-director-freddy-alvarez-helming-evil-dead-remake/

That is not a good short. But, it was enough to get this guy to this franchise.
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I agree. Same can be said of a script or feature too. If you can come up with a cool element, something original, something compelling, and get it to the right set of eyeballs, you can walk right past the three headed dog that guards the gate.

About Panic Attack, I'm still not quite sure what someone saw in it, possibly a sense of pacing or momentum. Couldn't be VFX, because there's nothing special about what was done. Perhaps it was the combination of VFX + pacing. Who knows.
 
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"A perfect example of a short film structure is a story joke with a punchline: set-up, complication, dramatic climax, end."

I'll agree that is a much used formula for a short. My new one is actually the first I have done that really follows that formula. My others have been structured like a classic 3 act narrative just very compressed. I switched to the setup/punchline formula to get a more festival friendly 12 minute running time.
 
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About Panic Attack:
I think people liked it, because it was a cool (SFX)trailer for a non-existing movie.
It builds up tension, has powerful rock, cool robots and a lot of destruction, leaving the spectator with the question 'How will this end?'
I don't think the makers were struggling to make a perfect short: they wanted to make something spectaculair. (Just like Ritchie Blackmore said about 'Deep Purple in Rock': "if it's not spectaculair, we won't record it." :P)
Was it the best SFX-trailer ever?
No.
But a lot of people won't see that.
Besides that: it was seeded and spread in clever way, with the story that it was shot for less than $100,-
That made a lot of people think: "wow!"

Wanting to make your first short ever perfect could be paralyzing.
So maybe you should aim for spectaculair, shocking, funny, scary or magical and make it the best you can.
All the lessons you learn in this project will make you better, sharper and hopefully more convident. Besides that: it might persuade other people to join your next project (which you may try to make perfect). :cool:


Off-topic:
Kholi said:
...............without knowing an iota of my background.....
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Is this a real English proverb?
It's almost the same as the Dutch proverb with the 'iota', but I've never heard of seen it in English :)
 
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Kholi said:
Was it someone else with the same name that said that in this thread???? If not, then there's a definition for what you've just done.
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"Panic Attack" perfectly fulfills the model I mentioned. Never said it was a perfect model.

And both statements I made are true. Learn the rules before you break the rules -- but you can do either.

I think a constructive conversation relies less on emotions
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I believe that one can be constructively emotional. Passion is often preferable to detachment. Do you make your movies without investing any emotion in the process?

without knowing an iota of my background
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Your words define you quite adequately.

I've presented tangible data
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Redefining your opinion as fact doesn't make it so.
 
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DirtyPicturesTV said:
"Panic Attack" perfectly fulfills the model I mentioned. Never said it was a perfect model.

And both statements I made are true. Learn the rules before you break the rules -- but you can do either.
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You've obviously missed the point of reposting what you said... so I'll spell it out: You're the only person here that said what a short must be. I surely didn't. So, being the only one that's stated what a short has to be then drawing a plastic argument later that "shorts can be whatever" is hypocritical.

Hopefully that explains it.

I believe that one can be constructively emotional. Passion is often preferable to detachment. Do you make your movies without investing any emotion in the process?
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Debate isn't emotional. It's based on data. How I make movies has nothing to do with this discussion.

Your words define you quite adequately.
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Pretty blank statement, an emotional one, but blank. Present data.

On the other hand, if you're adamant about making it personal, let your work speaks the loudest.
Until then, our discussion is over.
 
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Explaining the basic rules to somebody learning is very different from discussing actual execution. Rules are there for learning, or there if you want to use them. You can throw them out and still make a watchable film.

Speaking of contradictions:

Kholi said:
I'd be focused on doing something popular. For the internet, and not so much for festivals. The story would probably come second to making sure that it looked really good
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Oh, you mean exactly like the director of "Panic Attack"?

Now that Kholi's given up, we'll move on.

What makes me think that the "Evil Dead" remake might be bad is the fact that Diablo Cody is writing it:

http://io9.com/5821384/the-evil-dead-remake-may-actually-be-awesome
 
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I just want to thank harmonica and others for asking the same questions over and over *∞ so that noobs like me can come here and immediately learn that this industry is like any other, there are those that dream and those that do. Those that do succeed or fail, but at least they tried. Those that just dream all day fail automatically.

I'm sorry harmonica but you are worried about getting known name actors in your thingy to maximize distribution/advertisement whatever, but you're skipping all of the steps that everyone here has pointed you towards.

You'll only be hugely successful if you have fun working hard, getting your hands dirty, day after day, practice practice practice. What most people don't think is fun, you have to get through to reach the fun.

See if any of these people just woke up one day and were successful at what they do:
Steven Spielberg
Peter Jackson
Tom Hanks
Robert De Niro
Michael Jordan
Bruce Lee
Lionel Messi
Daniel Negreanu
etc etc

All those people have natural talent yes, some luck yes, but work their ass off to be some of the best at what they do. They have glamorous jobs that everyone is envious of but many fail to realize they put more in to that job than you've ever put into anything. Do you think any of them asked "is practicing 10 free throws a day good enough for the NBA?".. "is using a half ass script going to get me noticed by people who are also looking at scripts from people who didn't half ass it?"

So that's not to say you are in the wrong place, asking the wrong questions. This is a great place to learn from others. But you have to listen to what people are saying, because while you're here asking the same questions over and over as a million other noobs, there is an aspiring director out there directing his tenth film at age 16 with his mom's camera and his best friend, and they already read this entire forum over the summer break between 7th and 8th grade.

Dang I'm long winded.
 
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Oh some guy emailed me just now and in his sig it says:
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit"
Aristotle

Kinda corny for an email signature but it's true. You can't say, "I'm gonna make half ass (or no) stuff until I get Brad Pitt and a $100,000 camera, then I'm going to direct a badass film, I promise!".
 
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jtx said:
I just want to thank harmonica and others for asking the same questions over and over *∞ so that noobs like me can come here and immediately learn that this industry is like any other, there are those that dream and those that do. Those that do succeed or fail, but at least they tried. Those that just dream all day fail automatically.

I'm sorry harmonica but you are worried about getting known name actors in your thingy to maximize distribution/advertisement whatever, but you're skipping all of the steps that everyone here has pointed you towards.

You'll only be hugely successful if you have fun working hard, getting your hands dirty, day after day, practice practice practice. What most people don't think is fun, you have to get through to reach the fun.

See if any of these people just woke up one day and were successful at what they do:
Steven Spielberg
Peter Jackson
Tom Hanks
Robert De Niro
Michael Jordan
Bruce Lee
Lionel Messi
Daniel Negreanu
etc etc

All those people have natural talent yes, some luck yes, but work their ass off to be some of the best at what they do. They have glamorous jobs that everyone is envious of but many fail to realize they put more in to that job than you've ever put into anything. Do you think any of them asked "is practicing 10 free throws a day good enough for the NBA?".. "is using a half ass script going to get me noticed by people who are also looking at scripts from people who didn't half ass it?"

So that's not to say you are in the wrong place, asking the wrong questions. This is a great place to learn from others. But you have to listen to what people are saying, because while you're here asking the same questions over and over as a million other noobs, there is an aspiring director out there directing his tenth film at age 16 with his mom's camera and his best friend, and they already read this entire forum over the summer break between 7th and 8th grade.

Dang I'm long winded.
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Okay thanks I will do my best. So how many scripts did you guys write before you had one that was good to make?
 
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