Do Action & Indie go together anymore?

[Airwolf]

In watching alot of "award winning" independent short films, real independent films, not these so called independents that had a 6 million dollar budget and won sundance. It seems all of them are short romance, comedy, or drama stories set on a street corner, in someone's backyard or in a house. Multiple locations are hardly used and i have been able to find very little indication that anyone is shooting action movies for the independent scene.

My question is, why is this? As much as i enjoy drama and comedy, it's the action movies that usually become the huge blockbusters and always have the biggest budgets. And action movies are my favorite genre and what i want to make. Occasionally a good drama film will also, but these are extremely well written drama's with many locations, not set in someone's apartment.

If you can create an action movie with a good story, is even worth submitting, or do action movies simply not win these "Creative" festivals? Rodriguez made an action movie with a good story and he was noticed. But now the independent scene is so different how are you supposed to compete your truely independent film agaisnt a studio sponsored production with a-list actions and millions of dollars behind it?

 

[indietalk]

There's an indie action producer here, you should check out his films, his latest is www.tendeadmen.co.uk.

 

[Will Vincent]

become the huge blockbusters and always have the biggest budgets

Big budgets allow advertising investment, which if done properly equates to 'huge blockbuster'

 

[barnaclelapse]

I have some friends who do brilliant low-budget video game parody films.

The last one was quite action-packed, and I know for a fact that it was filmed on even less than a shoestring budget.

www.x-strikestudios.com

As far as how to compete goes, it seems to me that the only thing you really can do is get the interest of the kind of people who look for more than what Hollywood's offering them in the first place. They're the ones generally writing the blogs, posting on forums, etc. A word of mouth effect from that particular can sometimes lead to a following that other people in turn get into because they heard about it from their "film geek" friend or whatever.

In the end, I think you just have to promote the living hell out of your work. It's as simple as that. Go after the people who like the kind of films that compelled you yourself to make your own film in the first place.

If that makes sense.

 

[Scoopicman]

Hey, this thread is close to my vest. I've made propane flame throwers, squibs, etc., but I'm not here to suggest those things. I've actually grown fond of what's possible with post FX.

The first thing to do is to decide what you want to make. Where is your heart at? (Example: Don't try cashing in on the horror genre, if you hate those kind of movies.) The second, is to make it the best you can. This is where you try and give the movie a unique point of view. Obviously, you want memorable and not mindless action. Like any genre, that will hinge on your writing and directing ability. Action elements are just tools.

Because of technology (affordable DV/HD/compositing) action and indie go together, better than ever. A lot of this is made possible with Airsoft guns, compositing programs, like After Effects, and stock footage (fire, gunshots, debris, copcar lightbars, etc.) from places like NCcinema.ch and Detonationfilms.

How much does it cost? If you have After Effects (or know someone with it), not very much. If not, you can even buy alternate programs, like Visionlab Studio (with premade muzzle flashes, lasers, FX) for around $500, for the whole suite. I now use both. A few years ago, I directed a 100 minute feature, called THE AWAKENING, for $5,900. Most of that money went to costumes (black ops, marines, etc.), food and even a few days of pay. My producer, Kelly, and I coerced a group of weekend warriors to bring their own Airsoft guns. We "cloned" 6 of them into a larger combat force.


Black Ops pic


We bought the black BDUs, but the rest was their gear. The guns use electricity or gas to create recoil. Muzzle flashes are added later.

The best FX are the ones that don't look like effects. One of my favorite scenes involved a guy hitting our leading lady with his pool stick! How to do that? The actor actually swung at a board, which really broke the stick. By not changing any lighting, we stuck Tamra in the shot, where the board was. By keyframing around her, it looks like she takes the hit! You can see it, near the beginning of the Trailer




More creative challenges included how to tip over vehicles. There are 3 scenes with vehicles being tossed around. Actually, 3 different processes were used and each worked well. One was an upside down car pic:

Notice that what sells the effect is the reflection of the blowing tree and man on the vehicle.

Another was a model against a greenscreen. I pulled the SUV with fishing line.

Last was the "real" thing! We needed a convincing money shot, so a friend donated his old van and we pulled it over with tow straps and a Chevy pickup. The funny thing is that a lot of people comment on how good the effect was, even though it was not. Ha ha!

Fire is very dangerous to work with, but footage from the sites, mentioned above, can be key. Not to say, we didn't do real fire stunts. In EXILE, we did! My friend CJ was begging me to let him do a fire stunt, so I didn't even have to look for anybody. This first shot is of the real fire.

Fireguy


However, the real flames were mainly on his back and needed to be beefed up with cgi, made by my friend, James:

Fireguy with cgi


Cgi fire only looks real for a split second, so I added a burst of real flame ( from the "dummy" take).

Fireguy with cgi and real composited flame


For the reverse view of him running away, a blazing dummy was shot against a blue sky, in Nevada. The blue sky was keyed out and replaced with footage from the original shooting location, in Utah.

Dummy on fire

The actual sequence can be seen this "Crash "scene


I'll leave you with a scene of a shootout. The great thing is that no weapons permits were needed. There are no loud noises. In reality it was just a bunch of guys/gals pointing non-firing plastic at each other, but most would never know from watching.

EXILE shootout

 

[EvsFX08]

Now that looked like it was fun to work on! Love the FX and how-to's.

 

[Scoopicman]

Thanks, Rob! It looks like you are into the same stuff.

 

[rebellian studios]

watch "El Mariachi" that was done with a very low budget and the special features is helpful telling you how to do a movie like that on such a low budget

 

[EvsFX08]

Hey Mike, yes I am into the FX thing. I'm thinking on actually using your idea on using small scale models for a music video I'm shooting. We're doing several takes on it, so I'm not sure if it'll make it into the final cut yet. But I played around last night with having my son "toss" cars over using one of your tricks, I'm having fun working with Hot Wheels cars This works great since our shoot is in a junkyard anyway. Now, where can I find a female model that looks that good! LOL! The smashing board effect was so simple but yet I never thought of doing anything like it that way. That's a good FX to keep in my toolbox.

 

[thefilmgeek]

Just a thought on big budgets...

I don't understand 'indie' films either that have these million dollar budgets.

I really think you lose the spirit of indie once you start spending hundreds of thousands, if not millions, on things. When I think of indie, I think of Robert Rodriguez shooting the original El Mariachi.

It seems like the people that want all this money are more interested in trying to emulate Hollywood than they are making a great film themselves.

 

[Scoopicman]

I'm thinking on actually using your idea on using small scale models for a music video I'm shooting. We're doing several takes on it, so I'm not sure if it'll make it into the final cut yet. But I played around last night with having my son "toss" cars over using one of your tricks, I'm having fun working with Hot Wheels cars

Forget the Hot Wheels and get some models at one of the big hobby stores (or Ebay). They will look real! My buddy, Kelly, who did the After Effects shots on THE AWAKENING runs a supergirl website. He uses models, all of the time!

If you don't believe me about the realism....this Ford Focus is model!! I mean, look at the license plate.

If you go to Detonationfilms, you can buy the "Lightbars" DVD. All it is, is cop lights. You superimpose it and it will look like the real thing. Kelly didn't know about that, but his cops look good, anyway...

Also, if Kelly used flames from Detonation films, the burning car would have looked great. Want your mind blown? That girl is fighting 12" G.I. Joes!

 

[hltibbs]

I've been out of professional photography for a while but am considering getting back in. I wanted to do stills on sets way back when and this looks like something I would have enjoyed shooting.