Disagreement over actors, experience and paying people

[GoldenSelkie]

Hey guys, I'd like perspective on this please, 'cause this fight was intense and it's making me doubt what I'm doing. Sorry, but it's really, really long.

I've been developing my short film since last August and recently wondered if I'm taking advantage of student and volunteer actors if I don't pay them. So I asked a visual artist I respected for her opinion and she and an indie DJ tore me several new arseholes for thinking of taking advantage of artists who have bills to pay. They explained that, if I'm so desperate to make this film, just make it with family and friends or wait as long as it takes to save up and pay people properly for their time. Pay them or compensate every person with something of value to every person's particular principles. They also used that point to tell me that I'm in way over my head, out of my depth and seemed to insinuate that amateurs have no business planning short films etc.

They pointed out that I may as well have quality if I really want to make the film, so get proper equipment. I explained my plans and budget for quality control and after pushing quality they suddenly criticised my budget. Largely because I'd budgeted money for food and drink, for buying and hiring equipment and paying for the location rather than paying people. Plans to feed people were dismissed because if I can afford to feed people, I can afford to pay them. Just get people to bring their own food instead because people appreciate money more. Both explained to me that, as independent artists, people try to use amateur status to take advantage of them all the time and it ruins paid work opportunities for artists everywhere.

Here are my issues with what they said (and feel free to respectfully tell me to be realistic):

- I think it's a jerk move not to provide food and drink when asking people to spend hours working on something like a film or production. I also had a base awareness that providing food and drink was a given in filming and I want happy people on set

- The film is timing and current events sensitive. I'm making the film for me because it's a movie I'd like to see that doesn't currently have a Hollywood version. There are whispers a film like it might be made, and possibly soon-ish, but nothing concrete. If I wait too long I'm going to lose motivation, interest and enthusiasm from the volunteers and the reason for making the film in the first place

- To me, it's a jerk move to limit or insinuate that something like art or film should be limited to the trained and professional peoples of the world who have stacks of money to throw around. Everyone starts out somewhere or simply wants to have a hobby

- The sheer angst is super confusing for me because I've been a part of plays and productions that _I_ have paid for the privilege of performing in and all profits from performances went to keeping the companies going. Because they were amateur, passion based projects, I was cool with it and never expected anything anyway

- Even though I want to hire some gear and a location, I think that's normal and my production is simple, even for a first film. I don't see how that's over my head

- I was going to ensure that every person in the film gets a copy of the film that they can post to YouTube or Vimeo without monetisation (specified in the contracts). I won't be posting it online because the film is for me and it''l be such a bad film. Everyone else can use it for portfolios and exposure if they feel it's valuable enough for them.

Anyway, thanks for reading, would love to read what you have to say!

 

[mlesemann]

What you are doing is perfectly normal and reasonable in the indie film world.

It's lovely to be able to pay people, but very few can do that when they start out. And yes, feeding them is very important - never ask people to bring their own food.

Re gear etc - I think you'll find that (just about) everyone on this board will agree that you should make your movie with what's available to you rather than waiting until you have everything perfect.

Good luck!

 

[Aspiring Mogul]

GoldenSelkie and Mara,

I've been waffling on this for several years. I was short-changed (to put it mildly) in my earlier years, and I've sworn never to do this to anyone. OTOH, I also remembered that, when I needed help, my boss (now my former boss), gave me a very good deal to help me and some friends, so, again, I swore to do the same thing if I ever started my own business.

Anyway, I've asked many actors about pay, and they say they are willing to forgo pay if they can get good roles, because they want the work and the credits. I also know someone who wants to be a camera man, and he said the same thing, that it would be an honor to work for free. In fact, they would rather I use the money towards better quality production.

I recently had a discussion with someone in the business, and he suggested a full meal and a nominal payment would be the way to go. Perhaps I should do that.

I'd appreciate the input of others.

 

[DeJager]

If your actors and crew are willing to work for no pay and that's the understanding prior to the start of production then there is nothing wrong with that. They can make their own decisions as adults. It's quite common for indie filmmakers, cast, and crew to volunteer their time for experience and networking.

"I won't be posting it online because the film is for me and it''l be such a bad film."

Is this something you said? If so, you may want to re-think your attitude going into the project. If it's going to be soooo bad that you won't even post it online and you know it's going to be bad then don't make it now. Continue with pre-production and collaborate with others until you think otherwise. Your first short film doesn't have to be bad. Many filmmakers make decent first short films or even features. You need to have confidence while being realistic.

 

[directorik]

There are three levels:

The beginner who is learning their “art”. I do not believe these
people are insulted by not being paid to work on a short film.
A step further: I don't believe these people deserve to be paid.
They deserve to be treated with respect and not pay out of pocket
- food, fuel, lodging as an example - but they have not gained
the experience to command a paycheck.

The dedicated hobbyist/amateur/semi-pro: someone who is earning
a living outside of the movie business but has skills and experience.
There are some who feel insulted being asked to work for free.
There are some who are willing to help because they know the struggle
of a filmmaker.

The experienced pro: someone who makes most (or all) of their
living in the business. Many work for free on short films. There are
many who do not. It is not insulting to ask professionals to work
for free. I feels it's rude and unprofessional for a professional to
dismiss an amateur filmmaker for trying to find experienced people
to help.

Case in point: Aspiring Mogul has been aspiring for several years
now and has yet to make even a “test” film. He is waiting until he
has enough money to pay people. Nothing at all wrong with that
because his aspiration is to be a producer. But a director/writer
needs to make movies. The beginner should be making one short
film a month. And they can't do that if they pay a fair, living wage
to every student and aspiring amateur. They should not be limited
to “family and friends” by selfish professionals, they should explore
all possibilities.

GS, from what you say here those two people whose opinion you
respect have lead you in the wrong direction. It in not taking advantage
of people to ask for help in making a movie. They are correct in that
you are out of your depth; how will you learn to swim of you stay in
ankle deep water? I've been making my sole living in entertainment
since I was 17 years old, I am what is called a “professional” and I
am often “out of my depth” - it's where I am most creative, excited,
scared and alive.

Beginners like you are not taking advantage of people and do not
ruin paid opportunities for artists everywhere. They (you) are the
foundation of the business. Every single working professional stands
on this foundation because they (we) all started somewhere and we
didn't get paid to learn.

The bottom line: if you wait until you can pay a fair, living wage to
every person involved you will never make this movie. Make this
movie. Thank these two people for their advice and move on without
them. Ask favors. Offer favors. Accept rejection. Move to the next person.

Under the bottom line: get it out of your head that “it'll be such a
bad film.” I know you'll never say that to people you ask to help; but
it's in your head. Make sure you make a movie that will help those
who do you this favor.

 

[_Rok_]

Do make some friends. Do feed your team. Do take care of them. Have fun.
Never shy from asking for free help/equipment/locations. The worst anyone can do is say 'no'.

Don't take it personally. Don't dwell on people who are insulted by your ambitious plans, or call you names for asking them for help. Don't get angry at them, just thank them for their time and move on.

I've had great success selling myself with sheer polite enthusiasm for my short. The right people (my kind of people) find this infectious.

 

[jax_rox]

Everyone else has made really salient points and I'll just add my experiences.

I have and will continue to work for free or little for friends, family, people who I like, projects I believe in etc.

I don't make a habit of doing it all the time as I don't want to devalue my work too much, and I need to make a living.

But, when I look into doing something for free or cheap, I look at a few things:
How likely is it that this person or this project is going to take advantage of me
How likely is it that this person or project will get me more work in the future
How much do I believe in this project
What will I gain from it.

If you want me to shoot something, and you can budget for proper lighting and camera equipment for me, and I happen to have nothing paid on at the moment - sure, I'll work for free (assuming we're not talking about a four+ week feature!).

If you're asking me to provide all my equipment, and my time, and ask my crew to come along, and all for free... It depends. If I like the project, if I like you, if there's some professionalism about it, and the project has a good chance of going somewhere, I might consider it. But you better provide good food, ensure that we pre-pro properly, stick to the schedule, and listen.

I've worked for free on some great projects, and I've worked for free on projects that have led to significantly more paid work for me. Which is great. It's a win-win all 'round.

One thing I hate is myself or others being taken advantage of. It doesn't matter if you're paying me or not, if we're being taken advantage of, it's not worth my time. I'm talking about Directors who won't pay but will happily run over-time because it's of no consequence to them. Being paid a token amount, and then being expected either not to eat, eat late, eat on the run, or having the cheapest meal you can possibly get delivered come through... for the seventh day in a row.
I don't mind cheap food, but if you're having a bare minimum of sandwiches delivered every single day, I'd rather my $50/day go towards food - it gets old pretty quickly.

Other bug bears of mine: Paying me and then telling my assistant you've got no budget to pay them. Telling me you've got no budget to pay crew and then I rock up on set and find out half the crew are getting paid. Telling the cast and crew you've got no budget when you obviously do. Letting the extras eat first. OT and forced calls without thought or compensation...

And most of all, I like working on a respectful set. Especially if you're not paying anyone. It becomes very obvious on the stress of a film who genuinely respects and appreciate that their crewing is working for little or no money, versus those who just don't care and see them as free labour.

That all being said, there's nothing wrong in asking someone to help you without being paid for it.

 

[payperfilm]

Letting the extras eat first.

This bothered me. I'm sure you're a nice guy, but extras deserve a certain amount of dignity too and to insinuate they are lesser doesn't sit well with me. It's a thankless low paying task and sometimes getting a free meal is half the reason people agree to be extras. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but a large part of doing anything is how much someone is appreciated.

I remember being on a shoot where my son worked as an extra. They had food for the crew and the ad executives but nothing for the kids who were preteen. And it was very hot too. They thought they were being magnanimous giving us bottled water. I don't know how adults could stuff themselves while ten feet away children were hungry. It was a very early shoot too. 7AM. So no one ate before coming to the set.

 

[washere]

You are extremely lucky they turned you down.

 

[Sweetie]

recently wondered if I'm taking advantage of student and volunteer actors if I don't pay them

You are.

They explained that, if I'm so desperate to make this film, just make it with family and friends or wait as long as it takes to save up and pay people properly for their time. Pay them or compensate every person with something of value to every person's particular principles.

This is also accurate... but to quote Empire Strikes Back, "From a point of view". If you're after a professional product, it's a plan you should consider.

They also used that point to tell me that I'm in way over my head, out of my depth and seemed to insinuate that amateurs have no business planning short films

This might also be true, but who cares? When you learned to drive a car, were you proficient the first time you sat behind the wheel? You do need to learn somewhere.

What Jax said is very important:

But, when I look into doing something for free or cheap, I look at a few things:
How likely is it that this person or this project is going to take advantage of me
How likely is it that this person or project will get me more work in the future
How much do I believe in this project
What will I gain from it.

If you're asking a person to work for free, you need to consider their point of view. While you're not paying them, you need to offer a fair and equitable exchange. What will they gain from this? Do they need what you have to offer? For professionals, this is often money. For students, working with more experienced filmmakers, adding to their experience, if you can teach them, learning, adding to their show reel, making valuable contacts and even the popular cliche exposure are all possibilities. You need to pick your person.

Reality check. You're a first time filmmaker. How much of that are you really able to deliver? Don't BS people. If you do, the team you build will consist only of those too either too inexperienced or too stupid to know you're full of it.

Brisbane pumps out film makers out of film school at an alarmingly high rate. The majority want to be directors. Of those, everyone believe they're the next big thing. Everyone is looking for a crew to realize their vision. There are only so many capable crew.

Good news: There is a wide culture of those willing to take on free work in Brisbane. Most particularly actors looking to expand their portfolio, camera/phone owners who want to be called cinematographers and post production "computer owner" button pushers.

If I were you, build your team and make your film for as cheap as you can. Network as much as you can.

 

[Cracker Funk]

It feels to me like we pretty much have a consensus here. Pay no mind to those two people you asked for opinions from. It sounds to me like either they're toxic individuals, or more likely just have no clue what they're talking about, in regards to how things work in filmmaking. You're fine. Make the film! Use volunteers! Make it absolutely as good as you can, and for God's sake, don't sit on it -- show it to the world!

Actually, that's one way in which you might piss your actors off. Actors don't volunteer to work in movies that will never be seen. If you can't pay people, at least do your best to get it into as many festivals as possible. And definitely feed your cast & crew!

I shot a feature film with a mostly volunteer cast. The four lead actors were paid what little money I had, amounting to less than minimum wage. It was stated upfront that I knew their time was worth more, but that was all I had, and it was basically just designed to allow them to take part in the project without literally starving (we shot mostly continuously, 20 shooting days over the course of a month, and people gotta eat).

Every other actor was a volunteer (deferred pay, actually, but that's basically volunteer, especially since I told everyone that I didn't expect to make any money off that film).

Without question, I can tell you that every single person who took part in that film was happy to. You gotta realize that it's not just you who is an aspiring __________. You can find wonderful people to work with if you look for people who are in the same boat as you.

There are three levels:

The beginner who is learning their “art”. I do not believe these
people are insulted by not being paid to work on a short film.
A step further: I don't believe these people deserve to be paid.
They deserve to be treated with respect and not pay out of pocket
- food, fuel, lodging as an example - but they have not gained
the experience to command a paycheck.

The dedicated hobbyist/amateur/semi-pro: someone who is earning
a living outside of the movie business but has skills and experience.
There are some who feel insulted being asked to work for free.
There are some who are willing to help because they know the struggle
of a filmmaker.

The experienced pro: someone who makes most (or all) of their
living in the business. Many work for free on short films. There are
many who do not. It is not insulting to ask professionals to work
for free. I feels it's rude and unprofessional for a professional to
dismiss an amateur filmmaker for trying to find experienced people
to help.

Case in point: Aspiring Mogul has been aspiring for several years
now and has yet to make even a “test” film. He is waiting until he
has enough money to pay people. Nothing at all wrong with that
because his aspiration is to be a producer. But a director/writer
needs to make movies. The beginner should be making one short
film a month. And they can't do that if they pay a fair, living wage
to every student and aspiring amateur. They should not be limited
to “family and friends” by selfish professionals, they should explore
all possibilities.

GS, from what you say here those two people whose opinion you
respect have lead you in the wrong direction. It in not taking advantage
of people to ask for help in making a movie. They are correct in that
you are out of your depth; how will you learn to swim of you stay in
ankle deep water? I've been making my sole living in entertainment
since I was 17 years old, I am what is called a “professional” and I
am often “out of my depth” - it's where I am most creative, excited,
scared and alive.

Beginners like you are not taking advantage of people and do not
ruin paid opportunities for artists everywhere. They (you) are the
foundation of the business. Every single working professional stands
on this foundation because they (we) all started somewhere and we
didn't get paid to learn.

The bottom line: if you wait until you can pay a fair, living wage to
every person involved you will never make this movie. Make this
movie. Thank these two people for their advice and move on without
them. Ask favors. Offer favors. Accept rejection. Move to the next person.

Under the bottom line: get it out of your head that “it'll be such a
bad film.” I know you'll never say that to people you ask to help; but
it's in your head. Make sure you make a movie that will help those
who do you this favor.

Nailed it!

bug bears

What? Is that how Australians say "pet peeves"? Or is it Americans who are the weirdos for saying "pet peeve"? If I were a gambling man, I'd put my money on the latter, haha.

 

[Sweetie]

Pay no mind to those two people you asked for opinions from.

It's sad but I think I know exactly who it is.

bug bears

What? Is that how Australians say "pet peeves"?

It could be, however I've never heard of it before. I've been known to use "Pet peeve" when my wife has packed my balls in her handbag. "Gives me the shits", "drives me up the fuckin' wall", "pisses me off", "shits me to tears" and "what fucks me off" are all ones I use. If you hadn't guessed, Aussies are a little more liberal with swearing than our pommy or yankie pals.

If you ever visit OZ, ask to see the drop bears.

 

[GoldenSelkie]

Thank you, everyone.

Your input has been invaluable and I've decided to push forward with some changes to what I'd planned.

I was always intending to be completely transparent about my level of experience or lack thereof. However, I'll stop saying/believing that my film will be bad because of my inexperience. Film is a collaborative process, if I'm dismissing the quality because I’m involved, I'm dismissing and ignoring the work and the effort of every other person involved in the film. And when I thought about it that way, I realised I was discrediting people in a really jerk-y way.

Participants will know from the very first meeting that this is a volunteer only film that isn't expected to profit, with (good) catering, standard working breaks of two 10 minute breaks and a ½ hour to 1 hour and whatever else I can manage. I’ve always wanted the people who’ll be working with me on this film to know I’m a newbie so they won’t be afraid to offer opinions, ideas and input. I’ll decide what I take on, of course, but I don’t know enough to think I know best and if I did, well, that’d be a sign that I’ve gotten ahead of myself.

The film won’t be longer than 15 minutes but I’m trying to stick to 10 minutes, including credits. There are only two main actors for most of it, two minor supporting speaking roles and another four people who don’t have lines. Maybe I’m dreaming, but I’m hoping for days where I may only have one actor on set at a time and only as much crew as required. That’ll drain less of people’s time and maybe make things easier. I'd love it if we could thrash it out in 10 days of shooting. This part I’m still figuring out, though and could be talking out my arse at this stage.

Cracker Funk – Make it absolutely as good as you can, and for God's sake, don't sit on it -- show it to the world!

Actually, that's one way in which you might piss your actors off. Actors don't volunteer to work in movies that will never be seen. If you can't pay people, at least do your best to get it into as many festivals as possible. And definitely feed your cast & crew!

This is something I’m nervous about. I’m making this film to fill a gap in the Marvel movies and develop an underutilised character. I’ve recreated and renamed the character to have an individual story, superhero name and an Australian background, but it’s kind of obvious what I’ve done. I’m worried that if I showcase it or put it into festivals, Marvel will come for everyone’s vital organs. That’s why I thought of giving them copies they can post to YouTube, because it comes under Parody and Fair Use in a not for profit format. People see the film, the people who helped make the film will get exposure, etc.

That being said, it’s excited everyone I’ve spoken with and just about every person has said they’d like to take part in it or watch it. So, I’ve got some thinking and some research to do about what I can get away with.

Sweetie - It's sad but I think I know exactly who it is.

I hope that's not so, I'd be unhappy if our disagreement wasn't the first of its kind or if it was witnessed. Also, it makes me sad to think that these two may have made a negative reputation for themselves about this topic. And/or stopped people from moving forward with their own work.

Cracker Funk - What? Is that how Australians say "pet peeves"?

I've always said 'pet peeves' and hadn't heard of a 'bug bear' until last year when it was mentioned on an American show.

 

[Sweetie]

I'd love it if we could thrash it out in 10 days of shooting.

Don't. Just don't. Some feature films get shot in less time than that. If the schedule is due to complexity, I'd suggest tackling a film a little less complex for your first. Most people would get their first short done in a weekend, maybe 2. It's a lot of time to dedicate to an unpaid short film, especially for a first timer. If you're asking people to work unpaid, I personally believe you have a responsibility to be efficient with your volunteers time.

I hope that's not so

It's a fairly common point of view around here, most particular with recent grads. Those who want to get paid for their work, who also aren't always getting as much paid work as they'd like can get testy, sometimes nasty. It's sad when a polite no or "pass" will suffice. Many of them have made an investment in themselves/equipment and would like to see a return on that investment and acting out. It's them, not you. They're hoping to get you to pay them.

gap in the Marvel movies

I'd like to hear more.

 

[Morris]

Make sure you do a good job at pre production. There will always be times that the unexpected happen. Make contingency plans in case somebody gets sick and be sure you get enough coverage. Always check and backup your files. Have fun and talk to more experienced people about suggestions.

 

[jax_rox]

This bothered me. I'm sure you're a nice guy, but extras deserve a certain amount of dignity too and to insinuate they are lesser doesn't sit well with me. It's a thankless low paying task and sometimes getting a free meal is half the reason people agree to be extras. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but a large part of doing anything is how much someone is appreciated.

I remember being on a shoot where my son worked as an extra. They had food for the crew and the ad executives but nothing for the kids who were preteen. And it was very hot too. They thought they were being magnanimous giving us bottled water. I don't know how adults could stuff themselves while ten feet away children were hungry. It was a very early shoot too. 7AM. So no one ate before coming to the set.

Hey - I never said don't feed the extras!

All I'm saying is, the extras are sometimes only there for half a day or less, and even when they are there for a full day, they're often sitting in extras holding for a lot of the day. We don't get time off. We got there long before the extras (an extras call time of 7 could easily mean a general crew call of 5-6am, with camera and lighting often getting there even before that) and will stay long after the extras. When lunch is called, we have to make gear safe, we have to run cards to the DIT or data station, get batteries on charge etc etc.

So it's frustrating when you finally get to the lunch line, are last, and look around at all the extras eating happily, who have done nothing all morning because we changed the schedule and are now doing the extras' scenes after lunch. Then you finally reach the food and it's mostly gone, is cold, or both.

After we've eaten, we're probably checking things, ensuring we're ready to go for the next scene, we may be putting the camera into handheld mode, or onto a steadicam; perhaps we're putting FIZ motors, wireless TXs, and ensuring everything's working, so that we're ready to go as soon as we're back.

I'm not saying being an extra is easy, or that it's a glamorous job, or that they shouldn't get to eat. I'm saying especially when you're not paying crew, let us eat first. Let us make the most of the small time we have. Or feed us something different to what you feed the extras, so that you can feed each group of people when best suits for the day, and ensure you have enough to go round.
Feeding us properly will get you better results throughout the rest of the day. It's easier to lift a 15kg camera rig after a proper lunch.

Some productions simply see lunch as a thing that has to happen, so they'll get people eating, especially if we're running a little over and lunch is ready/delivered ('get the extras eating, and the crew can eat when they're done'). It's literally our only 'break' for the day, and it's annoying and frustrating when Producers try to cut it short, or you get there and there's just the dregs left.

Oh, also - stick to the 5hr rule. Serve lunch no later than 5hrs after crew call. We'll be happier, and the work won't slow down as we get hungrier...

And - try and serve some kind of breakfast when you have an early call. Even if it's fruit, or muffins or something. It doesn't have to be bacon and eggs (not every day anyway )

There's nothing worse than a 6am call with lunch scheduled at 12:30 that's an hour and a half drive away. You end up either eating at 4am at home (which sucks) or you get something from Maccas on the way (which sucks even more).

What? Is that how Australians say "pet peeves"?

Ha! It was my polite way of saying:

"Gives me the shits", "drives me up the fuckin' wall", "pisses me off", "shits me to tears"

Maybe it's a South coast thing. Those up north must be less polite Or maybe I'm watching too many American shows lately....

 

[GoldenSelkie]

Don't. Just don't. Some feature films get shot in less time than that.

Oh thank goodness. I only wanted to film in one weekend initially, but was told I was making a newbie mistake and to take as long as affordable. I'll budget for 2 weekends, plus a day for me (and whoever wants to come) to go in there and plan shots directly in the space.

It's a fairly common point of view around here, most particular with recent grads. Those who want to get paid for their work, who also aren't always getting as much paid work as they'd like can get testy, sometimes nasty. It's sad when a polite no or "pass" will suffice. Many of them have made an investment in themselves/equipment and would like to see a return on that investment and acting out. It's them, not you. They're hoping to get you to pay them.

That... seems strangely entitled for the art industry. I've got family in the music industry ranging from orchestra to engineering and my understanding was that they didn't walk out of education and right into their current jobs. They did free work, worked around the jobs that kept roofs over their heads, gave music lessons and waited and waited until auditions and applications paid off.

Thankfully I wasn't going to hire either one of them, and I certainly wasn't expecting the sheer anger from the artist or the DJ to weigh in or to be so terse, angsty or bitter. And boy did the DJ not enjoy being called on it. (I call things the way I see it and if someone is being rude, well, I'm going to tell them. Politely)

I'd like to hear more.

I'm making an Australian Black Widow short film, using one of the many dangerous Australian spiders. Literally, in part.

Black Widow is a cool character, she's gotten decent screen time and some great lines, but in my opinion Falcon has better development than she does. In fewer movies. At the moment she is such a vague character that she can be made to fit anywhere in any way, and while that's cool for a spy it also kind of a cop out. I like her mystery and don't think it needs to be fully explained, but I've so many questions about her and want to see more of her background and motivation than what Whedon strongly hinted at in 'The Avengers' and showed us in 'Age of Ultron'. Speaking of which, I wasn't at all happy with the 'Widow thinks she's a Monster because she hasn't got a uterus anymore' angle.

Because we always see what a good soldier Widow is and how loyal she is to whatever principles guide her, I want to know why, what's in it for her other than wiping out the red in her ledger. It also highlights the timeline of my film too and why it needs to be done soon. Feige says they're 'emotionally committed to getting out a 'Black Widow' movie, and I believe him, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. If they decide to, well, I'm racing to beat the clock and get people who are passionate about making up for the lack. While there's still a lack.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Oh my God, you're making a fan-film for the most popular franchise ever?! Dude, you must make this movie, and you must make it available for the world to see. And yes, I believe Marvel has recently dropped some fairly big hints that there will be a Black Widow solo movie. To which basically everyone I've spoken to has said the same thing - it's about time!

With all this in mind, I think the festival route is probably not the best for this movie. Youtube is your best friend here. Do it!

 

[Sweetie]

That... seems strangely entitled for the art industry.

They're individuals, not an industry.

I call things the way I see it and if someone is being rude, well, I'm going to tell them. Politely

Give it some time. I'll turn you into a non-polite rude prick in no time

Australian Black Widow short film

Sounds interesting. Is there a script yet?

 

[GoldenSelkie]

Sweetie - Sounds interesting. Is there a script yet?

Not a cohesive one. It's more a collection of must have lines so far.

Sweetie - Give it some time. I'll turn you into a non-polite rude prick in no time

Challenge accepted! I worked three years in banking, lived through the great Campbell Newman 'Government Staff Member Purge' of 2012 and still remained polite.

Cracker Funk - Oh my God, you're making a fan-film for the most popular franchise ever?! Dude, you must make this movie, and you must make it available for the world to see. And yes, I believe Marvel has recently dropped some fairly big hints that there will be a Black Widow solo movie. To which basically everyone I've spoken to has said the same thing - it's about time!

With all this in mind, I think the festival route is probably not the best for this movie. Youtube is your best friend here. Do it!

I really want to! And am going to do my darndest to make it happen soon. I'll stick to YouTube and if I like the filming process I'll look at making the other two ideas I have.