Deferred payment points to Actors

E

Ed Williams

Hi Everyone,

Has anyone given out percentage points to actors as a means of deferred payment? If so, what's considered the 'going rate'? I'm thinking of trying to keep 50% for myself, and divide the remaining 50% amoungst the actors. They'd get around 10% that way.

Thanks

Ed
 
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Hi Ed. I am not sure about a "going rate" for deferred payments but there are several leagl issues that come into play (as I assume these rates will be agreed upon in a contract of some kind) on the payment (money) side of our business. For full disclosure, I am not a lawyer of any type or even pretend to be one, what I am about to share is just what I have learned from books and discussions with others (though that whole disclosure thing did feel kind of lawyery, didn't it?)

As far as rates go you have to consider what kind of actors you are using, are they pros who are SAG members? If that's the case then I understand that there are certain base rates that you may be required to factor into your budget (even at SAGIndie rates). If they are just your buddies, or local actors not affilaited with any type of union or organization then I would presume that what you want to share on the backend (i.e., if money is made or expected to be made) is part of the negotiation process of the contract. How these contracts are enforced becomes a matter of law (of the country or state that you are working in). You may seriously want to consider engaging the advise of an Entertainment attorney or read up on these types of things before you go signing contracts (even with friends and especially with family).

Even the word "deferred payment" raised a legal flag in my mind. In the US, each state has it's rules when it comes to deferring payment (once again talk to a lawyer or read up on this for your applicable state). My understanding is, because of the past abuse of payment structures in our industry laws have been set in place that prevent you from just deferring payments. Based on the kind of business entity you set up as your production company (i.e., not-for-profit, sole propritorship, LLP, or corporation) you may or may not be allowed to defer payments.

The theme of my babble is this...talk to a lawyer or read up on this stuff. We have such a passion for movies that it's easy to forget that ours is an industry that is exposed to so much legal stuff that it's crazy. Things like missing a simple release form can kill an entire project. But we are artist who just want to create and not get bogged down with the business or legal side of things. In bigger productions they have time, money and people for that kind of stuff. For us low/no budget folk we have to wear many hats. We have to be deligent and know a little bit about a lot so that nothing gets in the way of completing our work.
 
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In reality they will get nothing, deferred pay means "work for free" 99.9999% of the time. Actors want to beef up their reel and body of work, just treat them right, and don't worry about tricky wording.
 
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Thanks for all the advice. The only problem with the lawyer route is an hour consultation with an attorney will be more that I'm spending on the whole project! (well, almost)

The actors are doing it for their showreels and to hone their craft. When I told them they'll get points they emphasized they'll be satisfied with a great reel, so I think we all know the score.

Ed
 
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If a $150 to $250 (£91 - £150) is almost your entire
budget, I suspect you aren't making a feature. Short
films don't make money.
Ed Williams said:
The actors are doing it for their showreels and to hone their craft. When I told them they'll get points they emphasized they'll be satisfied with a great reel, so I think we all know the score.

Ed
Click to expand...
Show the respect your actors deserve by not dangling
points in front of them. They are doing this for their own
reels and their own experience. Offering them 10% of
nothing is, in my opinion, insulting.

How many points are you offering your crew?

If you make a profit sometime in the future, imagine how
surprised and pleased your actors will be if you suddenly
write them a check. No contracts, no promises, no false
hope that they will someday receive points.

This is the reason there is no "going rate" for points.
 
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I am making a feature, a Romantic Comedy, character/dialogue driven. 5 day shoot, 4 actors, 1 main location (90% of film) with four other exterior locations. We're doing a 3 camera shoot with practical lighting on the main interior. I'm writer, director, camera operator, and editor.

I am respecting my actors, like I said, they're doing it for a very professional showreel, which I'll deliver. I'm not dangling anything in front of them.

In the end, I'll probably have spent around £1000, I was exaggerating a bit about the lawyers fees which I tried to make clear.

Yes, I agree, surprising them in the end would be great if the film sees a profit, which I will try my hardest to make a reality.

Cheers

Ed
 
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My "respecting your actors" comment is very simply
my opinion - not a slight on you. I apologize for giving
you that impression. As a crew member who often
works for free I find it disrespectful to have points
offered. I know that most movies do not see a profit.
I much prefer to be told I will be treated with respect
on the set, fed well and not work more than 12 hours
a day than I will be getting points. Because I know that
I will never see any money at all.

If your actors are happy receiving points, then you have
done the right thing! And you can offer them any
percentage you want. 10% each is very generous.

So with you taking 50% and the actors taking the other
50% what are you offering the rest of the crew? Seems
you need at lead two more camera operators, a make-up
artist and a PA. How many crew are you using?
 
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Kosh said:
Hi Ed. I am not sure about a "going rate" for deferred payments but there are several leagl issues that come into play (as I assume these rates will be agreed upon in a contract of some kind) on the payment (money) side of our business. For full disclosure, I am not a lawyer of any type or even pretend to be one, what I am about to share is just what I have learned from books and discussions with others (though that whole disclosure thing did feel kind of lawyery, didn't it?)

As far as rates go you have to consider what kind of actors you are using, are they pros who are SAG members? If that's the case then I understand that there are certain base rates that you may be required to factor into your budget (even at SAGIndie rates). If they are just your buddies, or local actors not affilaited with any type of union or organization then I would presume that what you want to share on the backend (i.e., if money is made or expected to be made) is part of the negotiation process of the contract. How these contracts are enforced becomes a matter of law (of the country or state that you are working in). You may seriously want to consider engaging the advise of an Entertainment attorney or read up on these types of things before you go signing contracts (even with friends and especially with family).

Even the word "deferred payment" raised a legal flag in my mind. In the US, each state has it's rules when it comes to deferring payment (once again talk to a lawyer or read up on this for your applicable state). My understanding is, because of the past abuse of payment structures in our industry laws have been set in place that prevent you from just deferring payments. Based on the kind of business entity you set up as your production company (i.e., not-for-profit, sole propritorship, LLP, or corporation) you may or may not be allowed to defer payments.

The theme of my babble is this...talk to a lawyer or read up on this stuff. We have such a passion for movies that it's easy to forget that ours is an industry that is exposed to so much legal stuff that it's crazy. Things like missing a simple release form can kill an entire project. But we are artist who just want to create and not get bogged down with the business or legal side of things. In bigger productions they have time, money and people for that kind of stuff. For us low/no budget folk we have to wear many hats. We have to be deligent and know a little bit about a lot so that nothing gets in the way of completing our work.
Click to expand...
SAG requires that producers pay 3.6% to actors in for form of residuals. That is divided between the actors according to the size of role/days on set. You could offer to match this as a non-SAG production. or if you're going to offer a 10% backend deal, you probably only have to offer that to your stars, not the entire cast.
 
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Thanks again for all the great advice!

I think I will stick with the 10% of profits route. I really only have four actors and they all have about equal screen time. As far as the crew, that's basically me... I'll be setting up all three cameras at various places on tripods and letting them roll. I will have three friends taking turns on different days operating the boom mike, in which I'll take them out for dinner and drinks for their effort (and return favours on their projects at later dates)

Cheers

Ed
 
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