• Wondering which camera, gear, computer, or software to buy? Ask in our Gear Guide.

Dated premise

The premise is the concept that drives the plot. That can
never be outdated. I'm not even convinced that a concept
can be overused when used well.

I couldn't agree more. I actually got the exact same criticism from my writing instructor. He told me that my short film about torture was "dated." I thought it was the most ridiculous criticism I'd ever heard. He didn't tell me my dialog wasn't working. He didn't tell me that my story was not believable. He didn't tell me how to make my story better. He told me that my idea of prisoner torture is "dated," and I should write another story. Of course, I didn't listen to him. I wanted to tell my instructor to go tell Clint Eastwood that he should stop doing westerns, because they're dated. (Filmmakers are just ridiculous.)

You should write about a story if it is interesting to you, if the details are interesting to you. Whether it's set in 1750 or 2050, in Alaska or Kamchatka, on Earth or on Pluto. If you know the story, write it. If it's genuinely interesting to you, it'll be interesting to other people.
 
It does raise an interesting question. Can a premise be dated? Not is
it interesting, is it dated. And what, exactly, is a “premise”? A genre
is not a premise. Or is it? Era (when a story takes place) is not a premise.

So... is “torture” a premise? If it is how can it be dated? Torture
happens today so it's relevant to today. Is a story that takes place in
the 1970's dated? What about one that takes place in the 17th
century? Is that even a “premise”?

If the premise is the “concept” then is the concept that drives the
story about a person overcoming a great challenge now dated? Is it
even overused? What about what drives a romantic comedy – two
people meet, two people have problems, two people overcome those
problems? Outdated? Some romCom's are still terrific. If some are
not that doesn't mean the premise is outdated. The premise of horror
films is something horrific happens to the people in the story. So
perhaps some specifics can be dated; the weapon wielding maniac,
but done well that specific premise can still be horrifying.

Can anyone come up with a premise that is “dated”?
 
Sure can! A modern film that hinges on disproven theories. The "humans only use a percentage of their brain" thing comes to mind. It has long since been proven incorrect...yet a blockbuster was just based on it, with a squirrel planned. The director even stated, if I recall, that he knew it was wrong, but didn't care.

So just because a premise is dated doesn't mean it can't be used. In fact, I'd love to see someone make a good film out of really bad science. Like the sun revolving around a flat Earth!
 
Sure can! A modern film that hinges on disproven theories.
Okay, it's been scientifically disproven but then “time travel” is
a premise based on unproven science. Is time travel as a premise
dated? And clearly that movie's premise didn't seem dated to the
audiences – scientifically unproven but dated? Or is the key word
here "disproven"? Unproven is not dated, disproven is dated?

In fact, I'd love to see someone make a good film out of really bad science. Like the sun revolving around a flat Earth!
That could be called science fiction rather than bad science.

Okay, you've got one dated premise. Is that it? Is a premise dated
only when disproven by science? So is all science fiction that hinges
on disproven science a dated premise?
 
Personally, the premise is what I more or less simply consider the logline.

I can think of "specific" premises that could be outdated... "Before the hero can thwart his nefarious plans a villain ties a damsel in distress to the railroad tracks" or "Fauna meets atomic radiation/waste and grows to mega proportions, wreaking havoc upon a major city"-- but not broad ones "boy meets girl".

At the moment I can think of far more "broad" premises that can be overused, but maybe that is because I am so cinematically underwhelmed as of late.

"Tough guy teams up with smart guy to save the Earth from an alien invasion/natural disaster"

"A videogame/toy franchise/universe becomes reality"

"Two acquaintances basically share their lives over a cup of coffee for an hour and a half"

I can't see outdated being anywhere near as much as an issue as I can see oversaturation, unless we get more specifics from the OP, while i think a premise that is "post-dated" would be awesome.

Regardless, kudos for a pretty interesting question.
 
Last edited:
Or is the key word
here "disproven"? Unproven is not dated, disproven is dated?
That's what I would say. Let's take the novel Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson (one of my favorites). All the forward thinking views of the internet are fanciful and not exactly how things worked as technology developed. But given when it was written, it's forgivable and not really all that distracting. However, a lot of the plot revolves around an outdated translation of an old sumerian text (and sumerian writing in general). It worked with the interpretation of the writings in the early 90s, but by the early 2000s it was thoroughly disproven. So that is dated, and depending on how much you know about Sumeria, a little distracting. But I still love it.

But it doesn't have to be just science; it can be cultural. Anything that's not a period piece using pre-civil rights race relations is going to be dated. Anything that refers to a vomitorium as the place Romans go to throw up so they can eat more, is dated (it's not: the word just meant the exit). Lemmings jumping off cliffs is an interesting one; it's dated because that was made up in the 50s, but using it as a metaphor for herd behaviour is still apt...only for the person saying it (after all, they'll believe anything they're told). The word "literally" is commonly used to mean its antithesis; but when slang moves on as it is wont to do, any plot based around that will be dated. And, hey, comedies have been based on less.

Again, while this is all dated, none of this is inherently bad. Brick was great...an old school neo-noir (complete with outdated slang), set in a modern high school. Dated by design, and it worked!
 
Interesting question. I agree with both sides (Con: Directorik, TrueIndie) that a genre or plot cannot be dated and (Pro: JoshL) that certain elements can be wrong pulling me out of the story. Partly because each is speaking to different aspects of 'dated' applied to the narrative.

Steampunk is archaic science that never was. So storytelling can override that disbelief element. Certainly there were histories that never were. Also while plot elements don't typically become dated, presentation can become 'dated' because audience interests change just as they do for music. Some plots just don't 'update' well. The attempts to re-make television shows from the 60s and 70s often have met with poor results. It's not the concept but the execution. "The Munsters" and "Addams Family" just don't play well to the darker, sexualized storylines prevalent today. "I Dream of Jeannie", "McHale's Navy", "Gunsmoke", "Gomer Pyle", "Mayberry", "Petticoat Junction", "Green Acres" and the list goes on of shows of a bygone era. Most modern viewers under 30 see these as "lame" and 'dated'.

How many viewers want to see a show about a rich lawyer with his spoiled wife who buys a dilapidated farm featuring a pig? "Green Acres" is a 'dated' concept in that it would appeal to a specific audience in the past. As a concept--lower economic status family thrust into an upper economic status due to happenstance and the lack of adjustment--isn't 'dated'. Still the execution as in the "Beverly Hillbillies" would be hard to impress today's viewers. The recent move to ban "Dukes of Hazzard" simply because of a car's emblem or the removal of "Song of the South" because it presumptively romanticizes the Old South highlight the issue of acceptance of 'dated' notions. It's hard to imagine an updated Shirley Temple film, where a precocious, freckled white girl sings and dances with happy black servants on a plantation would work well. Yet people romanticize a sniper's confabulated account of his prowess killing Muslims in their own country. As a society, viewers' mores and tastes change.

I think 'dated' is sometimes the euphemistic way of saying the content won't fly with today's audience for various reasons. A television script from the 60s-mid 80s would feel 'dated' by today's standards. Most 'updated' shows are treated as parodies--"Starsky & Hutch", "Miami Vice", "Dragnet", etc. Even "Hawaii 50" has a very different feel from the original.

I think a writer should follow their story and develop it. Another writer's feedback should be taken in stride. It could be right or wrong. Feedback on structure, formatting and narrative development are more important. 'Dated' is usually a subjective response. However, if you get that feedback from a producer, it may be helpful to pursue that before re-submitting. They often have a feel for what makes a film marketable.
 
Interesting question. I agree with both sides (Con: Directorik, TrueIndie) that a genre or plot cannot be dated and (Pro: JoshL) that certain elements can be wrong pulling me out of the story.
Put me in that camp, too. I agree that specific elements can be dated.
The premise of “The Little Colonel” is not “precocious, freckled white
girl sings and dances with happy black servant”. The premise is the
reconciliation of a father and daughter – a premise that is not dated.
That could be done today. Set it in the years directly after the Civil
War and you'll have problems with political correctness but not with
the promise. Set it in 2015 with a father coming home after many
years in the Mid East theater and the premise comes alive again.

You point it out well with your TV shows examples. The show themselves
are a product of their era but the premise is not dated. The movie
versions (and TV remake) took the premise and set them in “today”.

The more we discuss this the more I believe that a premise or concept
cannot be dated.
 
Put me in that camp, too. I agree that specific elements can be dated.
The premise of “The Little Colonel” is not “precocious, freckled white
girl sings and dances with happy black servant”. The premise is the
reconciliation of a father and daughter – a premise that is not dated.
That could be done today. Set it in the years directly after the Civil
War and you'll have problems with political correctness but not with
the promise. Set it in 2015 with a father coming home after many
years in the Mid East theater and the premise comes alive again.
True though the premise is the Temple's spunkiness brings about the eventual reconciliation between her mother and grandfather. (The father was a goldminer who sent them back to live with his father-in-law who had disowned his wife.) I agree that premise of kids reconciling family members is a universal one with many variations. My comment was about the treatment not the premise.

Even for this premise set today, if you have a girl singing and dancing happily with servants, it will read strangely in the context of modern war. Today it would be darker, more of a drama. I'm not sure audiences want Broadway productions so much anymore. Even the updated "Annie" fails to capture interest. Even if you don't have issues of political correctness, it can feel anachronistic despite updates. The treatment of the premise is what can feel 'dated'. Outside of "Glee", whenever a 'normal' television show transforms an episode into a broadway number with singing and dancing, it's often a marker that the show is in its final season.

The more we discuss this the more I believe that a premise or concept cannot be dated.
I agree with this. Bones are bones. I also believe the delivery or treatment of a concept can be perceived as 'dated'. While wooly mammoths have similar bone structures to elephants, if brought to life, they would need special accommodations because of their tusks and fur. Cutting their tusks and shaving their fur to make them "fit in" with other elephants just parodies the original. Each needs to be treated similar to its native setting. And that's not always possible.
 
Heres some of MANY I have,

SNATCHERS, A film about a mysterious pink goop that turns the residents of a small city into mindless drones, and its up to an escapee from a womens prison, and an over eager state trooper to save the day..

FREEZE/OVER, thriller about a detective hot on the trail of a serial killer who freezes his victims with liquid nitrogen.

CAPSIZED, die hard in an aging ocean liner that is sunk by terrorists.

I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOU, a romantic erotic action thriller about a discraced military contractor who is madly in love with a CEOs daughter, who is a pop singer, who is persued by an enemy from his past.

DEATH SPEED, Thiller about a cop who has to stop a group of armed robbers who have planted bombs throughout the city and he has to race to defuse the bombs, even if that means the robbers will get away with the loot.

THE RIVER, the race to destroy a railway bridge in a war torn asian country by a group of SEALS after a war between this country and the US breaks out. (loosley based on a certain novel)

DEATH FLOOD, die hard in a huge coastal city after it is inundated by floodwaters caused by global warming, except the bad guys are the good guys, persued by a greedy FBI agent who wants the loot for himself, and is connected to the main protagonists past.

NIGHT ROMANCE, wild oldboy style scifi thriller about a rock musician and a streetwise teenage girl cyborg, battling a greedy crime lord bent on taking over the world.
 
We all seem to agree. When I read “premise” I see it in broad terms;
the concept that drives the plot. Not the specifics. JoshL, Guanto and
FantasySciFi see the premise as the specific details of the execution.

The concept of “Lucy” is based on disproven science. But clearly the
concept of a enhancing the unused part of the brain isn't a dated
concept. The movie did well, people liked it and a sequel is being made.
Disproven science – not a dated premise.

Guanto points out two
"Before the hero can thwart his nefarious plans a villain ties a damsel in distress to the railroad tracks" or "Fauna meets atomic radiation/waste and grows to mega proportions, wreaking havoc upon a major city"

neither outdated. Okay, tying a “damsel” to railroad tracks might be,
but the hero saving someone from a bad guy is not. THAT is the premise,
not the “damsel” or the method of putting her in danger. And I say a
good writer could even use the tied to the railroad tracks method in a
modern movie well. That could be used in a Bond or Bourne M:I film
today.

The SyFy Channel along with The Asylum has proven that the “Fauna
meets atomic radiation/waste and grows to mega proportions, wreaking
havoc upon a major city"” premise is alive and well – far from dated. Yes,
they are using it in an ironic way but (again) a good writer could make
that premise work today.

JoshL, I know “Snow Crash”. Stephenson uses what was modern and
known in the early '90's to re-tell a story from the Bible. The premise of
that novel is God vs. Man. It's a detective story at its premise. A search
for truth. That is not a dated premise.

So a movie can be “dated”. A great example in “Brick”. The Hughes films
of the '80's are “dated”. The exploitation films of the '70's are dated. But
their premise/concepts are not. And the specific execution of a broader
premise/concept can be dated. I believe than even in the specific execution
a good writer can make anything fresh – even a girl singing and dancing
happily with servants. " Annie” did it poorly. That doesn't mean to me that it
can't be done.

Is “a girl singing and dancing happily with servants" even a premise?

Great conversation!
 
Back
Top