Crash (of Civilisations?)

Nique Zoolio

Nique Zoolio

Fellow Indie Talkers,

I have just been treated to a viewing of Crash, Paul Haggis' directorial debut. It is a film about race and race relations in the US. Those who are abused in the film, at other points, abuse others. It is a wicked cycle. Recently I read a book by the controversial political theorist Samuel Huntington titled 'A Clash of Civilisations'. In it he argued that the next global war will be one of different cultures. Whilst he did not specifically label these as racial (he considered them to be geographical) cultures, historically they are interlinked (in his book).
My basic question is for anyone who has seen this film, or knows of its plot. Is race as serious an issue in the US as this film makes it out to be? I presume that the title of the film is a suggestion that cultures crash into one another and the result is a hotbed of racial hatred. Do you think this film is realistic? I ask because I have no idea what race relations are like over there. This is the kind of film that forces you to make judgements - I would like to understand from primary sources if things are really like that there.

:)
 
Wow. This is HUGE, Nique. Worthy of response for sure. I would like some time to think about this, but I will definitely come back with a reply. For starters, though...I have NOT seen the film you mentioned. You should understand though, that the issue of race relations within the USA can never be described in clear cut terms. There is no uniform sentiment or culture within the USA. People in New York do not have the same social understanding (culture) as do people in Georgia, California, Texas, or Connecticut. Even if you are all white, black, asian or hispanic...your location and social status will have an affect on your views of others, as well as yourself.

In some places within the USA, race relations are still quite strained. Other places do not experience the same tension as much. For reference, I was born in Mississippi in 1968, which was an extremely volitile time and place for our modern civil rights movement, yet I remember growing up in a de-segregated public school system playing with all kids equally. The racial attitudes (passed on by the adults of the community) didn't have much of an impact until I reached my teenage years (fortunately, I've been able to see that racial attitudes are not for me). By the way, how sad is that? Kids have a fighting chance of getting along until the adults get involved.
 
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Thanks for replying John.

'You should understand that issue of race....can never be desribed in clear cut terms'

I agree. I just don't want my views to be built on grounds that don't exist. Films like this arrive every now and then, which make people think about places. 'wow - the US seems messed up'. I know that their can be no formula, and certainly not for a place as wide and vast as the US, but I just wanted some people's experiences and views.
Thanks for sharing.

'kids have a fighting chance of getting along until the adults get involved'

So true. I look forward to what you have to say.

PS - I don't intend for this to be an offensive thread in anyway, and I understand the rights of fellow IT members to not be offended. If anyone has anything they would like to add to this thread, but feel that it may offend others then please P.M or e-mail it to me instead.
We have to respect each other. Thanks.
 
It's particularly relevant at the moment as Austin has been in a great racial tidal wave over the last few years between minority communities and local law enforcement.

Poke
 
America is a big place.

Really big.

I've lived in several of the fifty States... racial & social tensions cannot be compared from one part of the country to the next. Even within states, the degree of tension can vary a lot from county to county.

I have not seen the movie "Crash", though I have heard about it and it sounds like something that I would like to see. I have not read the book, either.

Racial (and social) tensions are very much alive and well in the US of A.
smiley_patriot.gif


_______

...and now for a slight distraction/confirmation... and just a small part of what continues...

This recent Senate resolution (not a bill or confirmation; just a Senate apology for not doing more) couldn't even get an official "up/down" vote in the chambers. (And before anyone brings up the current filibuster action... it's not even remotely comparable.)

(Backstory)

Over a period of time, Congress attempted to pass almost 200 anti-lynching acts.

Three of those made it to the Senate.

The Senate killed all three acts that made it that far.

...and on to today...



109th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. RES. 39

Apologizing to the victims of lynching and the descendants of those victims for the failure of the Senate to enact anti-lynching legislation.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

Ms. LANDRIEU (for herself, Mr. ALLEN, Mr. LEVIN, Mr. FRIST, Mr. REID, Mr. ALLARD, Mr. AKAKA, Mr. BROWNBACK, Mr. BAYH, Ms. COLLINS, Mr. BIDEN, Mr. ENSIGN, Mrs. BOXER, Mr. HAGEL, Mr. CORZINE, Mr. LUGAR, Mr. DAYTON, Mr. MCCAIN, Mr. DODD, Ms. SNOWE, Mr. DURBIN, Mr. SPECTER, Mr. FEINGOLD, Mr. STEVENS, Mrs. FEINSTEIN, Mr. TALENT, Mr. HARKIN, Mr. JEFFORDS, Mr. JOHNSON, Mr. KENNEDY, Mr. KOHL, Mr. LAUTENBERG, Mr. LEAHY, Mr. LIEBERMAN, Mr. NELSON of Florida, Mr. PRYOR, and Mr. SCHUMER) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

RESOLUTION

Apologizing to the victims of lynching and the descendants of those victims for the failure of the Senate to enact anti-lynching legislation.

Whereas the crime of lynching succeeded slavery as the ultimate expression of racism in the United States following Reconstruction;

Whereas lynching was a widely acknowledged practice in the United States until the middle of the 20th century;

Whereas lynching was a crime that occurred throughout the United States, with documented incidents in all but 4 States;

Whereas at least 4,742 people, predominantly African-Americans, were reported lynched in the United States between 1882 and 1968;

Whereas 99 percent of all perpetrators of lynching escaped from punishment by State or local officials;

Whereas lynching prompted African-Americans to form the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and prompted members of B'nai B'rith to found the Anti-Defamation League;

Whereas nearly 200 anti-lynching bills were introduced in Congress during the first half of the 20th century;

Whereas, between 1890 and 1952, 7 Presidents petitioned Congress to end lynching;

Whereas, between 1920 and 1940, the House of Representatives passed 3 strong anti-lynching measures;

Whereas protection against lynching was the minimum and most basic of Federal responsibilities, and the Senate considered but failed to enact anti-lynching legislation despite repeated requests by civil rights groups, Presidents, and the House of Representatives to do so;

Whereas the recent publication of `Without Sanctuary: Lynching Photography in America' helped bring greater awareness and proper recognition of the victims of lynching;

Whereas only by coming to terms with history can the United States effectively champion human rights abroad; and

Whereas an apology offered in the spirit of true repentance moves the United States toward reconciliation and may become central to a new understanding, on which improved racial relations can be forged: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the Senate--

(1) apologizes to the victims of lynching for the failure of the Senate to enact anti-lynching legislation;

(2) expresses the deepest sympathies and most solemn regrets of the Senate to the descendants of victims of lynching, the ancestors of whom were deprived of life, human dignity, and the constitutional protections accorded all citizens of the United States; and

(3) remembers the history of lynching, to ensure that these tragedies will be neither forgotten nor repeated.
Click to expand...

Sure... now some may say that this is merely a token effort by the Senate to take some heat off their butts. Even the cynic in me admits that. But there were actual Senators that chose not to sign on, even for PR points?! :huh:

This should be an accurate list:

Non-signing Senators

Trent Lott (R - Mississippi)
Thad Cochran (R - Mississippi)
Jeff Bingaman (D - NM)
John Cornyn (R- Texas)
Saxby Chambliss (R - Georgia)
Jon Kyl (R- Arizona)
Kent Conrad (D - ND)
Richard Shelby (R - Alabama)
Alexander Lamar (R - Tennessee)
Robert Bennet (R - Utah)
Michael Crapo (R - Idaho)
Michael Enzi (R - Wyoming)
Chuck Grassley (R - Iowa)
Judd Gregg (R - New Hampshire)
Jack Reed (D - RI)
Orrin Hatch (R- Utah)
Kay Hutchinson (R - Texas)
Jon Kyl (R - Arizona)
Richard Shelby (R - Alabama)
Gordon Smith (R - Oregon)
 
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I haven't seen the film and wouldn't comment on the situation in the USA. Although the civil rights movement is one of my areas of interest.

What I do know is that racial issues in the UK are huge.

Just a few miles away from where I live an Asylum Seeker was stabbed to death in a racially motivated attack last year.

It's a complex problem. But, it's all too easy to see it as a problem that exists somewhere else. Maybe you could look into issues in Nottingham, I think you'll be shocked at how pervasive the problem is.
 
Clive: I know what you mean. I come from Hull, which has become in the last two years a place of real racial tensions. Last year, a man was stabbed less than 10 minutes from my where my parents sleep in a racially motivated murder. I don't see it as a problem that exists somewhere else. Back in Hull, I was on the end of some racial abuse. In Nottingham, I am involved with local community groups to try to improve racial relations. I try to appreciate how pervasive it is everyday. And it certainly doesn't help when the local council build on images of superiority with posters saying 'BLACK CHILDREN NEED YOUR HELP' (some people just don't listen to undergraduates...)

I understand how serious race is in places in the UK (the shape-shifter Kilroy-Silk stood in a nearby constituency; the Daily Mail and Express sell more everyday; the BNP grow and grow, whilst 'Nocher Powell gets more and more royalties).

Believe me - I know it is here. I just don't want to let my view of race in the US be completely decided to me by some film and rumours that we hear - its a global problem, and I want to understand some things that happen from around the globe.
 
...I haven't seen Crash yet, but maybe I'll see it this weekend if it is still here. (I've been holding off on Star Wars and will be avoiding Batman this first week)

Are the racial tensions in the U.S. serious? Well, unfortunately, I would have to say that yes there are some real problems here. One of the big problems is that nobody seems to want to talk much. People assume that someone is a particular way, or they think that someone has a particular mindset. So people don't understand each other the way they should in order to get past racism.

...the point is not to be able to say that one doesn't see a persons color. The goal is that when you see a person, that their ethnicity doesn't cloud what you think of that person before you know them. Sadly, I think that many people are comfortable in their stereotypes...

...I will try to see the movie, and come back to the thread...this subject already makes me think of the Rodney King incident, Amadou Diallo, Reginald Denny and these things happened in the 90's...

...will we human beings ever learn?....

...btw, what's a shape-shifter? I assume we aren't talking about Star Trek.....

--spinner :cool:
 
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I have a friend in Senator Cornyn's office and I am trying to get a reason that he did not sign.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Poke :)

I need to mention that I didn't check for updates before posting my blah that night...

It was passed by the Senate on Monday in a voice-vote (heard many "ayes" and zero "nays" so it was passed as "unanimous" :rolleyes: ). As a voice-vote, no records are kept listing each Senator's position. The only way to have a position on it now is to have been recorded & signing as a co-sponsor. (Which most Senators were)

I'm wagering Senator Cornyn will use either:

1) I wasn't in the Senate during that time. Not apologising for sins of the father.

or

2) Opens a floodgate for potential reparation litigation.

_______

I'm stopping now... after I see Crash I'll likely have more to say, but for now I'm distracting from the thread. :)
 
spinner said:
...btw, what's a shape-shifter? I assume we aren't talking about Star Trek.....
Click to expand...

Spinnie - thanks for getting in on the thread.
I couldn't possibly comment as to what I was talking about as I could be touched upon for defamation :rolleyes: . I will remove the original name now, in fact, I am sure it was a typo. In truth, there was no original name I am referring to here. This sentence is a typo (not this one - I am satisfied with this sentence). In no way was I suggesting that this person was a pragmatic power-hungry ideological prostitute. And in no way do I suggest that is a bad thing!!
Sorry.

Even if you don't get to see the film, you can pick up what happens from boards. Basically,
the majority of the characters are self-contradictory, or rather, they are not on one side or the other - their behaviour is non-racist, then later, racist (or vice-versa).

You pretty much hit
it on the head with 'when will we humans learn?'
- so stay in even if you have not seen it.

I recommend watching it. :)
 
Zensteve said:
I'm stopping now... after I see Crash I'll likely have more to say, but for now I'm distracting from the thread. :)
Click to expand...

I found what you were saying very interesting Steve. I hope you do see it, but nonetheless, you are not, in my eyes, distracting a thread about racial relations with such informative (as always) posts. :)
 
Nique Zoolio said:
Spinnie - thanks for getting in on the thread.
I couldn't possibly comment as to what I was talking about as I could be touched upon for defamation :rolleyes: . I will remove the original name now, in fact, I am sure it was a typo. In truth, there was no original name I am referring to here. This sentence is a typo (not this one - I am satisfied with this sentence). In no way was I suggesting that this person was a pragmatic power-hungry ideological prostitute. And in no way do I suggest that is a bad thing!!
Sorry.
Click to expand...

...uh,....okay.... :huh: I'm sure you know what you mean... :lol:

get back to you when I see the movie...

--spinner :cool:
 
...Okay, not one to pass up a meeting of intelligent minds,I will be going to see 'Crash' in about an hour and a half. But before I do, I want to make some preliminary observations....

I have just been treated to a viewing of Crash, Paul Haggis' directorial debut. It is a film about race and race relations in the US. Those who are abused in the film, at other points, abuse others. It is a wicked cycle. Recently I read a book by the controversial political theorist Samuel Huntington titled 'A Clash of Civilisations'. In it he argued that the next global war will be one of different cultures. Whilst he did not specifically label these as racial (he considered them to be geographical) cultures, historically they are interlinked (in his book).
Click to expand...

...you might be able to say that this is true. Democracy as Americans see it, is a good thing, however, the American understanding of democracy may not be able to be implemented in the same way in say Iraq. (This isn't talking about what we are discussing on this thread, so lets not talk about Iraq, cuz that's a whole different discussion, and I'll not change the intent of the thread.....)


I presume that the title of the film is a suggestion that cultures crash into one another and the result is a hotbed of racial hatred.
Click to expand...

..at this point in American society,it seems to me, to be more of racial stereotypes, racial misunderstanding and racial fear of those who are different from you. Fear of that which you don't understand is a problem in any society. In this case, where it is easy in American society to be apathetic, you can go your whole life, and some people have, without having to have any significant interaction with those who are different from you. IMO this is one of the effects of not knowing each other as a society as well as we ought to and being afraid to step out and get to know other people for fear of a negative reaction from those who are different and also from those around us...(family, friends, etc)

....movie starts in about an hour, gotta buy popcorn you know...I'll come back on tonight to see if anyone is on who might want to discuss the film and its issues. (this ought to be interesting... :yes: )

--spinner :cool:
 
...I loved the film. Somehow it didn't create the discussion firestorm 'Do the right thing' did, but it really was just as good. If you haven't seen Spike Lee's film, you should. The subject matter is in the same vein only it takes place in NY.

...Filmatically, I like the Pulp Fiction, Magnolia form of filmmaking that people are trying to do more of. It creates such an intricate storyline and says that the creators are expecting the viewers to think more...

...now, about the subject matter: sadly, I would have to say that what I saw was pretty accurate. Would you expect to have all of these things happen to you in a week's time, no. But over the normal passage of time, one might actually see quite a few of these situations and not only in the big metropolises(sp). I didn't see anything there that I didn't recognize and that is a sad commentary on American society.

...every comment could be supported in one way or another, hence the perpetuation of any stereotype one might run across in an average day.

...incidently, this story took place in Los Angeles. 'Do The Right Thing' in New York. You should know that these two cities appear to experience and react to racial incidents on a larger scale than other places. Not that other places don't feel it the same, just the reactions differ. (Sometimes the bigger the city, the bigger the reaction).

...also, LA and NY tend to be looked at closer and get more attention, so the situation can seem as if the whole world is reacting in the same manner.

...did you have anything you were wondering about or might want to talk about specifically?

--spinner :cool:
 
Thanks for replying. I will give Spike a feel soon. I was just wondering really if the film was realistic in the very sense that you speak of. I saw it, and I felt this seems realistic, but I can't allow myself to think that without at least attempting to hear some views from the US.

I'd like to talk specifics, but I am afraidthat this will turn into a thread full of these spoiler alert thingy-me-bobs.

But here I go -
One thing that I did like was
what Dillon said to Phillipe about not knowing himself, and then at the end, he does 'find' himself to be a pre-judging person. However, I thought this was particularly good writing from Harris as it made you think that Phillipe was scared because the hitchiker was black, whereas it could have been totally non-racial. It made it very self-reflective,
which is essential for a film of such social commentary.

god, i
love
these things.
 
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