https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80EqI-VjmLA
Craigslist Producers
- Thread starter Alcove Audio
- Start date
It's too bad that so many people in the "movie biz" think like these guys do. The point they're making is true, but it's true BECAUSE of people just like them.
The last line of the clip is the most poignant...
The last line of the clip is the most poignant...
HAHAHA! This is hilarious... because it's so true! 
Yeah, just this afternoon I heard a horror-story about a craigslist producer a friend of mine just finished working with.
The producer/director brought lots of expensive equipment, and this was the primary motivation for all of the volunteer crew -- they all just wanted the opportunity to use professional equipment, for once!
But the producer/director didn't direct. He either knew nothing about directing, or just wasn't interested in it. He storyboarded the entire movie, and just gave the storyboards to the DP, telling him to just get the storyboards. And if you've got extra time, you can get extra stuff, too, but just make sure you get the storyboards.
And then he sat down, and watched. Doing nothing. As the volunteer crew collaboratively did the job of director (mostly the DP).
I saw some footage, and it actually looked and sounded pretty good. And they're targeting a niche market, so the movie might actually make some money. Is any of the volunteer crew on contract for deferred pay? Not a one.
The producer/director brought lots of expensive equipment, and this was the primary motivation for all of the volunteer crew -- they all just wanted the opportunity to use professional equipment, for once!
But the producer/director didn't direct. He either knew nothing about directing, or just wasn't interested in it. He storyboarded the entire movie, and just gave the storyboards to the DP, telling him to just get the storyboards. And if you've got extra time, you can get extra stuff, too, but just make sure you get the storyboards.
And then he sat down, and watched. Doing nothing. As the volunteer crew collaboratively did the job of director (mostly the DP).
I saw some footage, and it actually looked and sounded pretty good. And they're targeting a niche market, so the movie might actually make some money. Is any of the volunteer crew on contract for deferred pay? Not a one.
Let me be the Devil's advocate here for a minute since i dont like a single minded perspective on things.
What exactly is an aspiring filmmaker supposed to do if he/she is like the 99% of aspiring artists who have no money but want to fulfill their dreams. Are they not supposed to look for like minded individuals who are in the same position?
Im aware that there are productions out there which could pay but take advantage of people on craigslist by promising future paid gigs if they intern this time around. They're doing it on purpose without having the intention of hiring them in the future and just place similar ad for their next production. Those are scams.
But most people just want to get together and make a film. They shouldn't place these ads?
Im also aware that most of the people in showbiz are in it for the biz part. It's their job and their livelihood depends on it. I, personally, make a lot of my money from the kind of jobs in photography i find boring. A lot of times when other people get a job because they are willing to work for free or for pennies, we think that such people and the producers who hire them are destroying the business and taking jobs away. But whether it is photography or filmmaking we all knew we were entering an extremely saturated market where getting started, finding jobs and the sheer competition was going to be terribly hard.
But some people do want to make art, which this video considers a ridiculous thing to do and mostly everyone in this business has an almost impossible time getting off the ground.
Im lucky enough to be able to funnel money coming in from my regular boring jobs into the my personal film productions and pay people. But ten years ago i did not start there. I worked for free at times and looked for workers for free as well. Before that i just made films and sketches with friends. Isn't that how most of us started?
The scams and biased deals offered on craigslist are there and no one likes them. But you can see them coming a mile away after a little experience. But most of the people are just trying to start something and do what they love.
I understand the video is a joke and i enjoy a good joke without rambling and getting serious. But the thing is even though im all for ironic internet videos/pics satirizing almost any topic, i think this one was executed in a mean way instead of having a "lets all laugh abt the reality of our situation" vibe.
What exactly is an aspiring filmmaker supposed to do if he/she is like the 99% of aspiring artists who have no money but want to fulfill their dreams. Are they not supposed to look for like minded individuals who are in the same position?
Im aware that there are productions out there which could pay but take advantage of people on craigslist by promising future paid gigs if they intern this time around. They're doing it on purpose without having the intention of hiring them in the future and just place similar ad for their next production. Those are scams.
But most people just want to get together and make a film. They shouldn't place these ads?
Im also aware that most of the people in showbiz are in it for the biz part. It's their job and their livelihood depends on it. I, personally, make a lot of my money from the kind of jobs in photography i find boring. A lot of times when other people get a job because they are willing to work for free or for pennies, we think that such people and the producers who hire them are destroying the business and taking jobs away. But whether it is photography or filmmaking we all knew we were entering an extremely saturated market where getting started, finding jobs and the sheer competition was going to be terribly hard.
But some people do want to make art, which this video considers a ridiculous thing to do and mostly everyone in this business has an almost impossible time getting off the ground.
Im lucky enough to be able to funnel money coming in from my regular boring jobs into the my personal film productions and pay people. But ten years ago i did not start there. I worked for free at times and looked for workers for free as well. Before that i just made films and sketches with friends. Isn't that how most of us started?
The scams and biased deals offered on craigslist are there and no one likes them. But you can see them coming a mile away after a little experience. But most of the people are just trying to start something and do what they love.
I understand the video is a joke and i enjoy a good joke without rambling and getting serious. But the thing is even though im all for ironic internet videos/pics satirizing almost any topic, i think this one was executed in a mean way instead of having a "lets all laugh abt the reality of our situation" vibe.
And what about the sound pro or dp who wants all the budget for himself? One dp tried to convince me that my film would require a month of shooting. They hold no/lo beginners to the same big budget hollywood formulas, which I knew was a joke but would benefit them nicely. I decided to do double duty or even triple duty to get it done. We finished the shoot after 14 days. That enabled us to have money for canteen services as well as cover other expenses. We even did the sound ourselves and I have to say 90 percent of it I'm very happy with and worked on all of it in post to get what we wanted. And since we're close to getting it on the big screen I think we did pretty good.
Like stated above, none of these films would exist if we had to have that kind of money, so we do the best we can. When the millions start rolling in, I won't forget those special people who came on board with us and took a chance with us because they believed we had a great project. As for the pro maximus guys, they can tell others how they could have worked on our project, but we didn't have the money.
The real problem is these "PROs" don't or can't identify that special project when they see one. Some of them probably walked away from SLUM DOG.
Like stated above, none of these films would exist if we had to have that kind of money, so we do the best we can. When the millions start rolling in, I won't forget those special people who came on board with us and took a chance with us because they believed we had a great project. As for the pro maximus guys, they can tell others how they could have worked on our project, but we didn't have the money.
The real problem is these "PROs" don't or can't identify that special project when they see one. Some of them probably walked away from SLUM DOG.
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Ernest and Maurice, you guys are the good apples. But there are enough bad apples out there that make an accurate portrayal out of this video.
Thank God I've never had to deal with one. But I've heard stories, both on here, and in real life. This production that a friend of mine just wrapped -- based on how everything was described to me, I'm pretty sure the producer could have paid his crew. The dude had a freaking 1 ton grip truck!
But he took advantage of people eager to build their reel. And not one of them is under contract to get any kind of deferred pay. That is the kind of person this video is directed at, not the honest artists like you and I.
Thank God I've never had to deal with one. But I've heard stories, both on here, and in real life. This production that a friend of mine just wrapped -- based on how everything was described to me, I'm pretty sure the producer could have paid his crew. The dude had a freaking 1 ton grip truck!
But he took advantage of people eager to build their reel. And not one of them is under contract to get any kind of deferred pay. That is the kind of person this video is directed at, not the honest artists like you and I.
I prefer oranges. Can i be a good orange?
I rented a one ton grip truck for three weeks for $900. If I had
paid my crew of 14 working 18 12 hour days even $2 per hour
that would have been just over $6,000. If I had paid them $200
per week that would have been $8,400. I could afford the grip
trick and I could afford the $3,500 meals and craft service costs.
But I couldn't afford to pay my crew.
I “took advantage” of the crew all eager to build their resume.
The movie cost me and my partner $12,000 total. We made
just $26,000 - a profit of $14,000.
Over a seven year period. About $2,000 per year.
If we had offered deferred pay of even $2 per hour for each of
the 14 crew and 8 cast we would have written 22 checks every
quarter for $19. If we had offered deferred pay of $100 per day
that would be $40,000 in deferments. If my partner took took
ONLY the money we invested and returned ALL the “profit” in
deferments our first quarter payment would have been $1,425
or $64 per person. We were making only $500 per quarter in
profit. So we would have paid out $22 each per quarter for 28
quarters and still owed them $26,000.
That's why I don't offer deferred pay. It costs me more in time
to write 22 $19 or $22 checks per quarter than it's worth. And
seriously, is getting a $22 check once every four months really
what people are thinking about when it comes to "deferred" pay?
Yeah. It got pretty repetitive, too.
directorik, everything you're saying is perfectly reasonable. The guy I'm talking about owned the 1 ton truck.
We laughed over and over about this video on set a few eeks back.
NO PAY!
NO PAY!
If you're looking on craigslist for work, then you should beware to begin with. I got my DP from craigslist and we had a long talk before we decided to work together. Plus, we each had previous work to show each other.
If you're looking for experience, then no job is too stupid. You learn more from bad experiences then walking into something that's run smoothly.
If you've paid your dues by working for free, and feel that it's time to only do paid gigs, then just don't answer the Ads.
I took out a craiglist ad for a Graphic Designer to do the poster for my movie (I have to cancel that now). I said "No Pay" but they can put their logo/e-mail on the poster, and they'd get screen credit. I already had all the graphics and crap, all they have to do is put it together. I know it's a lot harder then I'm making it sound, I know I can't do it. But, it's experience working outside the confines of your own mind. The first responder wrote "Designers, just like everybody else, do not work for free or to receive credits... This is insulting and demeans our profession". He flagged my post because it's NO PAY which is against craigslist policy. It's still up. I had more then enough artists willing to do it for the credit. They get as much out of it as I do.
There's good and bad in every profession. Hell, if you're not enjoying the experience and you're not getting paid, then walk out the door.
If you're looking for experience, then no job is too stupid. You learn more from bad experiences then walking into something that's run smoothly.
If you've paid your dues by working for free, and feel that it's time to only do paid gigs, then just don't answer the Ads.
I took out a craiglist ad for a Graphic Designer to do the poster for my movie (I have to cancel that now). I said "No Pay" but they can put their logo/e-mail on the poster, and they'd get screen credit. I already had all the graphics and crap, all they have to do is put it together. I know it's a lot harder then I'm making it sound, I know I can't do it. But, it's experience working outside the confines of your own mind. The first responder wrote "Designers, just like everybody else, do not work for free or to receive credits... This is insulting and demeans our profession". He flagged my post because it's NO PAY which is against craigslist policy. It's still up. I had more then enough artists willing to do it for the credit. They get as much out of it as I do.
There's good and bad in every profession. Hell, if you're not enjoying the experience and you're not getting paid, then walk out the door.
There are cons at every level in the business from top to bottom. People starting out will pay their dues by getting ripped off and know better next time.
there are con investors, lawyers, executive producers, producers, crew people, and actors to the extent of lying on their resumes. I read horror stories just being on film fiinancing boards every day.
The people I like to work with are honest people who are interested in making a good film. I've been coned at almost every level. But, I'm learning as I go along.
People say it's hard to get a cast back after a shoot. My cast tells me my production was the best one they were in last year. They are all looking to do what they can to get the film to the finish line. My financial situation continues to get worst. The cast and crew are sticking by me and encouraging me to battle on.
We are living in hard times for money. The best definition of pro rate these days is what the market is willing to pay you and not what you think you are worth. There were ego clashes that led to chaos. But, I'm making the most with what I have. And, the cast and crew sees that. They love the sense I've made with the footage from the clips they've seen.
I've restructured my crew with key people with more experience.
I can't afford a matt painter. So, I'm using VR setsand color correction sets to be my own matt painter.
Anyone who starts in this business with dreams of being spoiled with perks, fame, and high pay with no experience is in for a rude awakening.
there are con investors, lawyers, executive producers, producers, crew people, and actors to the extent of lying on their resumes. I read horror stories just being on film fiinancing boards every day.
The people I like to work with are honest people who are interested in making a good film. I've been coned at almost every level. But, I'm learning as I go along.
People say it's hard to get a cast back after a shoot. My cast tells me my production was the best one they were in last year. They are all looking to do what they can to get the film to the finish line. My financial situation continues to get worst. The cast and crew are sticking by me and encouraging me to battle on.
We are living in hard times for money. The best definition of pro rate these days is what the market is willing to pay you and not what you think you are worth. There were ego clashes that led to chaos. But, I'm making the most with what I have. And, the cast and crew sees that. They love the sense I've made with the footage from the clips they've seen.
I've restructured my crew with key people with more experience.
I can't afford a matt painter. So, I'm using VR setsand color correction sets to be my own matt painter.
Anyone who starts in this business with dreams of being spoiled with perks, fame, and high pay with no experience is in for a rude awakening.
I offer no-pay positions on every one of my feature films - Those who cant afford it, just don't do it.
There are lots of people that take advantage of this, but it is what it is. Its up to you to find out if the no-pay job will benefit you.
For those of you that are new and think there will always pay job for you to start out, think again.
Many young people will not jump start their career because the mentality of all of this -
The video was funny though.
**EDIT**
My first feature film ad looked like this: 10 years ago
Be a part of my first feature film called "Ghost Game"
Talented DP needed - NO-Pay
Actress Needed (reel needed)- NO-Pay
Actors Needed (reel needed) - NO-Pay
Experienced Gaffer Needed - NO-PAY!
And my Favorite ENTERTAINMENT LAWYER NEEDED - NO PAY
And we all had a great time and have jump starter our careers -
I can afford to pay everyone now, and I think that is a great testimony in itself. This first movie is why, 10 years later I can start my own distribution company.
There are lots of people that take advantage of this, but it is what it is. Its up to you to find out if the no-pay job will benefit you.
For those of you that are new and think there will always pay job for you to start out, think again.
Many young people will not jump start their career because the mentality of all of this -
The video was funny though.
**EDIT**
My first feature film ad looked like this: 10 years ago
Be a part of my first feature film called "Ghost Game"
Talented DP needed - NO-Pay
Actress Needed (reel needed)- NO-Pay
Actors Needed (reel needed) - NO-Pay
Experienced Gaffer Needed - NO-PAY!
And my Favorite ENTERTAINMENT LAWYER NEEDED - NO PAY
And we all had a great time and have jump starter our careers -
I can afford to pay everyone now, and I think that is a great testimony in itself. This first movie is why, 10 years later I can start my own distribution company.
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