COMPOSER's THREAD

Logan,

It looks like you ran into a little of this with your film Little Elm. I'll give some pointers in my next post when I have a little more time to type.
 
Don't

Good information Stephen.

(None of the following information is given as legal advice and should be treated with extreme caution. I am not a lawyer and make no claims to specialist knowledge. Anyone acting on this advice, without taking proper legal council would be very foolish.)

However, a good basic rule for any aspects of film making is

"Unless you have a written and legally binding contract for it, from the script, to the music and even the performances DON'T use it."

This means no adapting other people's book's, using thier characters, using their songs, music, drawings etc., without a negotiated contract.

A UK company (not us), got verbal permission from a member of a signed band to use their music, only to discover, in court, that both the publishing company and the record company owned the rights to the music, not the musican. The settlement figure was fairly substantial.

Another area to be careful of is sound-a-likes, where you record something that is a "tribute" to the original song. It used to be true in the UK, that providing you changed every 7th note, you couldn't be sued. However, that law changed about 5 years ago and now, if the song is clearly recognisaible as having derived from the original, you may get sued sucessfully.

To be perfectly honest, media law is a massive subject and I would recommend any city with a good collection of film makers should to try to persuade a good media lawyer to come out and do a seminar for you.

We've done this before for groups of film makers in the North East of England, the lawyer seeing it as a way of generating new contacts and therefore not charging for the presentation.
 
Getting everything in writing is the most important point! Thanks Clive.

I know electronic scoring is the norm for indie films, but I just thought I'd ask: Have any filmmakers out there ever had the resources to hire a full live orchestra to record a score? Just wondering, if so, what that experience was like.
 
Hi Stephen,

Got a question for you too... Do you own any sound effects libraries for doing a cheap version of foley? There are some effects that can be down loaded for free on the internet, but I'm looking for a good CD library if one exists.

Regards,

Hutch
 
Hutch, sorry to but in on this one, but the BBC sfx library is about as good as it gets. I can't give you a price, shouldn't be difficult to get from bbc.co.uk

If you are looking for sfx and can't afford the discs, it's always worth checking to see if there are any radio commercial production houses near by. They use them all the time and maybe able to lend you what you need etc
 
Clive,

My mistake for not making it an open-ended question for anyone. Thanks for the excellent input!

Regards,

Hutch
 
Hey guys !!! Im new to the boards


Im a musician/soundtracker/whatever you want to call it.

Been producing more electronic genre music for 3 years now (im 19), try and play all the instruments, and have finished my debut album that will be released soon..

did the music for dreamer... a film onthe boards at the moment, and lined up to help with a few more.. really into it..

I think my music has a soundtrack quality to it, as its more abuot mood that song.. checkout www.cicatrixonline.co.uk

equipment i use: powerbook running logic, ableton live and cubase, yamaha cs2x, sp505, fender tele with digitech and bluesdeville amp, and a tascam digi 8track..

All good fun !!!! Lets talk...

Josh
 
There are all sorts of sound effects cds out there - I've managed to come across some copyright-free ones for about 3 quid. Sure they're not great, but for a tight budget, and with a bit of tampering with, they're fine. Then of course there's the hollywood ones, which are around $1,000 per cd mark. Though you can also buy single sfx from them.

But, whichever cds you get, CHECK THE LICENSE! I've already bought some reasonable "royalty-free" sample cds, to find that they are only free if you don't use them commercially. As soon as you use them commercially, you need to licence the sounds from them. And that includes if you use them as a basis for a sound effect (like applying filters, reversing, etc). Others will let you use so many in a given commercial application (like a film, game, etc) before they want a licence fee.
 
I don't have any SFX cds to recommend, but follow up on Clive and Baz, sounds like good leads.

And welcome Joshtrix! You are in the right place. Most composers join groups like "Film Music Network", which is fine. I belong as well. But if you want to score music to films then you have to hang out where the filmmakers are. And this is one of those nice hangouts. So welcome again.
 
Hi folks, I'm getting into this discussion kind of late, but I've seen some great thoughts from all. I've been a musician for 20yrs, and composing/producing music for TV and film for around 3 years now, and encountered many of the situations some of the compsers here have described. I definetely feel that composers should get paid for film scoring, but I do freebies as well, when I believe in the project, think it could be a good opportunity for me to build reltionships, or the challenge appeals to me. Also, the more one writes,the better one gets at it, and your personal library of music keeps growing.
On the other hand, I have encountered one or two filmakers who have carried the expectation of a "free" score too far. One guy actually told me he had no budget, fine, if I like the film, and feel that you'll be out there promoting it, I may do it for free. He then told me he would require me to assign all copyrights of the music to him..........yeah, right.
 
That's another good point, Bruce. When I do student films (for free) I usually sign a Master Use license agreement, which pretty much says, that "this is my music and you can use it in your film." Again, everything in writing.

There are situations were the music is bought out as a "work for hire" deal which changes the scope of the copyright. But this is usually only done on big budget films.

In a paying gig though, the recording of the score, or "the Master recording" should be owned by the producer. That is not to be confused with the copyright. Example: If I record a Frank Sinatra song, I own that recording (or performance) but that doesn't change who owns the authorship of the song. So owning the master is common, but not owning the copyright of the music itself.

In every case, it should be clearly spelled out in a written composer's agreement who owns what.

If some guy wants me to work for free and still wants the rights, ah... I don't think so. Not even the publishing, dude.
 
Absolutely! In that case, and in general, I tell them the music can be licensed for use in the film, and trailers. The person I referred to was an exception to the norm( I hope). He actually sounded a little offended and perhaps a little angry with me for not wanting to work my ass of for a month or so for no bread, and just give him the results to use as he pleased in perpetuity............oh well. On another note, I checked out your site Stephen, I like what you do. I'd love it if you too a peek and a listen at my site, and gave me some feedback, if you have time.........
 
Bruce,

Extremely nice site! Very impressive credits too. I could not listen to your audio clips because of a firewall issue, but I liked the intro a lot. It's difficult, even with samplers, to emulate a real orchestra. It takes a writer who knows what a real one is supposed to sound like to do it right and I think you do that very well. I'll have to listen to the other audio clips on a different PC and I'll get back with you.

Do you know Peter Calandra or Pat O'Donnel (some friend musicians who work on Broadway) or perhaps Francis Galluccio? Just wondering if we have any mutual friends in the Big A.
 
Speaking of English, I had the opportunity to meet John Cleese at a conference last year. He's one of my favorite actors and probably one of the people on my very short list of "most wanted to meet". The best thing was I got to make him laugh a few times. Being he was in Harry Potter my kids thought it very cool that I met him.

My wife bought me the written score to Harry Potter for Christmas. John Williams is a mad man! Seeing the score written out I now have a lot more respect for the talent in LA who can play those many notes.
 
John Cleese does seem to be an amazing guy - I've seen a few interviews of him. Slightly envious now, Stephen! :mrgreen:

I've been looking at some of the 60's film scores lately - a section from the original Planet of the Apes is part of the 'A' level syllabus over here for some boards - the style of music for that is soooo different to the stuff before and after it. Very modernistic, lots of weird rhythms and sounds. It's also the kinda stuff which can be heard without the visual.

Hey Joshtrix! Another Brit! I was beginning to think it was just me waving the flag! :D
 
The score for the original Planet of the Apes is amazing. Jerry Goldsmith won an oscar for it. He wrote the avant guard piano part for his teacher and mentor (I forgot his name) who was an accomplished pianist. I doubt he could have given such a part to a regular player for sight reading. The score worked because Goldsmith knew who he was writing for. Amazing score!
 
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