COMPOSER's THREAD

I agree with Stephen, want is the point of using a composer if you don't let them see the footage before composing, you may as well use library music.

The only time that having the music before the edit works well, is when you're using existing, recorded songs and the song is part of the narrative. That way you know before shooting, that you want to cut to that song.

I think because a lot of filmmakers have an almost music video approach to production, it seems natural to them to cut to the music, but if I remember rightly, that practice doesn't go back much further than Easy Rider.
 
We may be confusing two situations here.

The first situation is an indie filmmaker who manages to secure licensing for 10 songs from a band or a composer. That filmmaker then has to work with those sounds to acheive his DPM, he doesn't have a choice! It ends up seeming more like a music video as you said clive because the video follows the audio in obvious ways.

The second situation is the budgeted filmmaker who can afford a cinematic composer to score the tracks. This may be where the indie low budget tendancies carry over, they may try to get the cart before the horse and get the composer to start working based on ideas and script rather than video. Of course the real way it works is the video or film is shot, burned with timecode, and then discussed ad naseum for the mood before the composer ever strikes a chord. The end result is a pleasing visual cut with an appropriate punched up score to back it up.
 
Agreed. A while back I was asked to score a short documentary for a film festival. Although I was given no specific musical direction, the director and editor did discuss at length certain aspects of the piece they wanted to emphasize with the music. After rejecting my first mock up (first minute), they then sent me the temp track they had been using as an example. I was flabergasted because the music was so antithetical (imo) to the feeling/sibject of the documentary. So we had another meeting to discuss what they saw in this music as it related to the piece at which time they told me they me it was used to edit the piece. By then, I knew this was a sinking ship in terms of scoring the project. I stuck with it through two more demos which didn't go over well and then backed out. For me those last two passes were very stressful because I basically found myself trying to emulate music I felt very strongly was wrong. Big lesson learned!

I'm certainly not against temp tracks. I actually find them enlightening if the filmmaker has found one that fits the project.

As for doing music before I see the film, the most that I will do is talk general concepts. I have to see something to start writing concrete music since the "look" of a scene dictates a lot for me. However, for short previews (investor showings, trailers, etc.) I do work with unedited footage.
 
If a filmmaker wants to use a piece of music for the trailor or demo of the film, that's fine. Even most high-budget trailors don't use the actual score music initially anyway. They usually have some appropriate music to edit the trailor to. Some companies even specialize in scoring only trailors. All good, well and fine.

Some filmmakers though like to have the music, I mean the actual score, as an inspiration for the editing process and use it to guide them through the edit. This, of course as said, is bassakwards. But its a habbit some of them fall into early on and can't seem to trust their own editing abilities, or trust the composer to do their job later on.
 
I'll have to take issue with you Stephen. I think you have over-simplified to make such a strong case that something is backwards without qualifying your statement. It totally depends upon the situation...

For example, I have done 2 pieces in the last 2 years without seeing a bit of footage and the editor cut to the music. Keep in mind that, first of all, I know it's unusual. However, in these cases, where it was purely a music montage (various scenes indicating the passage of time with a music bed being the only audio in the scene) it worked and was extremely effective. I was told exactly what the scenes entailed before composing the 2 pieces, but did not see the scenes. And that's exactly what I was referring to when I said:

When possible it's a wonderful relief when the editor can cut to the music.
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It's simply 1) not as much work for the composer and 2) an opportunity to take extra liberties or, said another way, enjoy the unusual compositional freedom with regard to the timing of the piece.

Also, keep in mind I'm not talking about a music video type situation. I'm simply talking about a nice theme (no vocals) behind an important scene. An old film that comes to mind, where this situation is used, is "The Secret of My Success" with Michael J. Fox. Probably not high on everyone's list of must see movies (although I really liked the story) but, toward the end when Michael's character is soliciting support from various financial backers, there's a nice music montage as he visits the various backers. I really like the innocence of the song too.

Just food for thought from another perspective...

By the way, I just landed a deal to score a comedy feature length story shot on 16mm film. Haven't scored anything but video for quite a while, so this ought to be fun.

Regards to all,

Hutch
 
I disagree hutch. The music will always be better when composed to the visuals and not the other way around. (yes, big general statment) The music might be "free-sounding" but will not "marry" to the scene as well. Like Clive said, you might as well use library music.

What if, in that montage, there is a facial expression or something else very subtle that the music could have brought out? Your pre-scored track will miss it. So sorry, I disagree totally. Write the scene!

Now if we are talking "song" instead of "score" than that is a different issue.
 
Well, how about this for a weird compromise, with the worst of both worlds. I'm currently working on the score for a film from the States - but it's in Hindu! Talk about writing blind. Never mind about subtleties - I needed the scene description sheet to realise that two characters were telling jokes! It has got to be the hardest learnt lesson I've had to date - make sure you know the language of the film you're writing for!
 
Baz,

When I worked on scoring the Shaman King cartoon, we (the composers) got the original Japanese versions to start scoring to, along with a printed translated script in English. We had to start the scoring process before the voice actors here had time to dub the cartoon into English. Needless to say, most music cues had to be altered after the English versions came in because there was such a difference in "attitude" in how they said different lines. Example, in one of my cues, a Japanese voice actor said a line very simpathetically so I scored it accordingly, while the English actor later said the same translated line more sarcastic. Big difference in music!

I feel for you, man.
 
By the way, bringing non-film composers into the discussion, any Respighi fans out there? ("Pines of Rome", "Fountains of Rome") "Feste Roman" is one of my all-time favorite 20th century works. Anyone ever heard of him?
 
I can say with hand on heart that I have never heard of Respighi. Holst, on the other hand, is a big fav of mine. I played Viola for Jupiter once - that was damn good fun - and needless to say I love Mars. Though, I'm really not a fan of his Military Band stuff, though the folk tune stuff is quite nice.
 
I wonder if there was ever a film made that didn't use "Mars" as a temp track. I often hear similar motifs in scores and can almost hear the conversation between the director and composer... "Well, how close can you come to this Mars track, because I really like it and it works with the scene."
 
LOL! I know exactly what you mean! Though for me, the most exciting rip-off of Mars was on an old computer game of mine, which had it playing during a fight.....ooh, the excitement!
 
The most recent Mars rip off I found was in a cue from Harry Potter (J. Williams) although it was disguised in 5/4. Sneaky!

By the way, we have over a hundred post and over a thousand views now, do we all get a free toaster or something?
 
Here's a question for you: I'm nearly finished working on the music for a film. Now most of it's fine - but for one cue, they wanted me to use a Classical piece of music. I've orchestrated and arranged it, so I think I get around needing a sync licence from anyone. But - as the piece is Debussy's Deux Arabesque - I'm wondering if it's still ok to use this piece for copyright reasons. Does anyone know if the copyright to the piece itself is gone now?

Cheers
 
Hi,

i am an young Composer from Germany who is looking to write some Music for American amateur- and student-movies to update my composer knowledge.

I always written some Film-music here in Germany for Indy- and amateur-Filmer's, but i want to work International and want to met new peoples around the World.

I'm in contract with a German music publisher company named Edition Ramundi. They will publish the Score i wrote for films and my classical works...

You will find some Samples and Music-works from me on my website just click here!

I'm every time interested on writing music for interesting films...


many greetings,

Florian Linckus
 
Thomas Newman. He also did the score for American Beauty by Mendes. But his best score is by far for Finding Nemo.
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I like Newman's American Beauty and Shawshank Redemption more. I haven't actually heard Finding Nemo, but I'm not big on animated scores... too many flutes or something. My favorite animated score is the Lion King by the fabulous Hans Zimmer. Anything else is a distant second.

Okay, so do you composers like synths/samplers or live instruments? Personally, I'd love to work with a string quartet sometime, but it's just so damned expensive once you factor in the recording, and modern sample based orchestras in softsamplers sound incredible... not as good as the original, but perhaps easier and cheaper to work with.

Anybody produce electronic music for film?
 
Florian,

I have an ultra low / no budget horror film that was shot mostly on 16mm, we are currently shooting a couple of scenes in 24P (or actually, trying to raise money to do so), but we hope to be fully into post by the 1st week of October. Would you be interested in doing some score work for a vampire film? Email me at filmproducts@hotmail.com

I will also try to get a hold of you through this site.



florianlinckus.com said:
Hi,

i am an young Composer from Germany who is looking to write some Music for American amateur- and student-movies to update my composer knowledge.

I always written some Film-music here in Germany for Indy- and amateur-Filmer's, but i want to work International and want to met new peoples around the World.

I'm in contract with a German music publisher company named Edition Ramundi. They will publish the Score i wrote for films and my classical works...

You will find some Samples and Music-works from me on my website just click here!

I'm every time interested on writing music for interesting films...


many greetings,

Florian Linckus
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