Co-Writer or Wordsmith?

[ussinners]

I'm working on an umpteenth draft of possibly the best story I've ever written. Two or three drafts ago I had teachers telling me to shop it the way it was. I didn't think it was good enough. But, now I do. I enjoy each individual scene, and think the dialogue is very good. But, I write really simple actions. I keep it almost below the bare minimum of words. I think I get the point across. I believe this because when I was shooting Us Sinners, the actions are written exactly the same as they are here. Not one actor had a problem understanding any part of the script.

With this particular script I'd like to enter some contests. This is (IMO) a really good story, with a killer ending. But, I'd hate to have it fail because some ass thinks it's written poorly.

If I wanted to get someone to change the actions and make them bigger, bolder and stand out more. Would that person be considered a co-writer? Has anyone ever done anything like this before?

 

[directorik]

With this particular script I'd like to enter some contests. This is (IMO) a really good story, with a killer ending. But, I'd hate to have it fail because some ass thinks it's written poorly.

Then never show it to anyone.

Seriously.

There will ALWAYS be some ass who thinks it's written
poorly. There will ALWAYS be some very nice, intelligent,
thoughtful who thinks it's poorly written. If you are
thinking, even for a moment, that someone else can
make your script "some ass" proof, you are over thinking
this. You will NEVER write a script that every single person
will think is well written.

Send out the script YOU wrote. That's the right version.
Not a version of the script someone else writes.

 

[Adeimantus]

What directorik said.

It sounds to me like it's ready to go out.

Entering contests is a crapshoot in any case. It has to get by the initial screening readers in order to get to the finals and, if it's one of the bigger-name contests, that means three, four or five thousand other scripts that you're competing with. After a certain point there's a diminishing ability to distinguish between scripts, imo, based on quality, and you're left with the subjective tastes of the judges to determine your fate.

Have you decided which contests you're going for? You've missed the deadline this year for the Grandaddy of them all, the Nicholl Fellowships, sponsored by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.

You might want to think about entering Francis Ford Coppola's Zoetrope Studios contest:

http://www.zoetrope.com/contests/

I've got a script in the Nicholl's this year, my first one, TEARING THINGS LOOSE. It did well in a couple smaller contests recently, won third place in the 2010 Blazing Quills Screenwriting Contest, and got an Honorable Mention in the L. A. Movie Awards. (I bring this up to encourage you, since if a schmuck like me can win something, I'm sure you'll do well)

Are you registered with WithoutABox?

https://www.withoutabox.com/

It's an online application submission service for contests and festivals for both writers and filmmakers. Makes submitting a real snap.

Good luck and, once again, I say send the sucker out!

best,

-Charles

 

[ussinners]

I understand what you're both saying, and while I agree 100% with the theory, I just feel my actions are a little static as compared to Adeimantus. Who I must admit reading his scenes made me think of this. His actions flow and truly give a portrait of how to shoot the scene. Mine aren't terrible, but it takes a little more thought. You want these readers to have to put as little brain power into their reading as possible.

The way I would look at it, if my script and Adeimantus' script were in the same contest; even if I had a better story with better dialogue (I'm not saying I do), he would probably win because his script would be an easier read.

I do have a WAB account, but I don't use it anymore. I was thinking the big 3 when they come around again. I think the problem I might have with this script is I consider it a MOTW or Lifetime Movie Script. I don't know how well they go over in these contests. But, this is one script I'm actually proud of.

I used to review on Zoetrope, and some woman wrote a screenplay based on the works of Shakespeare. From Page 1 there was nothing that resembled a coherent screenplay. NOTHING. It was all exposition. For just about every piece of dialogue or action she wrote, she would give a detailed description of what play it came from and how it should be lit. She wrote the colors that should be present. It was AWFUL. I gave it the lowest scores possible, because that's what it deserved. About a year or two later I get a ZMail telling me how wrong I was. It made the quarter finals of the Zoetrope contest. It's in their Hall of Fame. This script had nothing resembling a screenplay, these people did nothing to help her cause of becoming a screenwriter.

 

[Adeimantus]

ussinner,

Whoa! Didn't know that 'bout Zoetrope. Ok, feel free to skip that one...

Are they doing many MOWs anymore? I've seen calls for scripts for Lifetime channel and a few others, but it's mostly a female lead in a paranormal thriller genre. I know the MOW has a completely different format than features; you have to build to a cliff-hanger scene just before each commercial break, etc.

Have you sent any queries out to WGA-signatory agents? Send out a synopsis, see if you get any nibbles... If they bite, might be a good way to get some feedback...

-C

 

[Adeimantus]

And speaking of agents (sorry ussinners, don't mean to bung up your thread here), I gotta pass this gem on. You guys'll love this.

So I sent out a couple queries to some agents on GALAHAD. A few weeks ago, I get this call from some guy with a HEAVY Brooklyn accent. Here's how it went (Oh, and I also sent a query on my historical drama, TEARING THINGS LOOSE):

VOICE
Hello, this Charles?

ME
Yes?

VOICE
You the one wrote GALAHAD, right?

ME
Yes.

VOICE
This is Archer King. I want you to send me a copy of that, ok?

ME
OK

VOICE
Not that other one, the one with trains and people getting blown up. The funny one, GALAHAD.

ME
Right.

VOICE
It's funny, right?

ME
It's hilarious

VOICE (laughs)
Good. Good. Send it to me tomorrow. Not next week, tomorrow, got it?

ME
Yessir.

VOICE
I LOVED the synopsis. Don't send the other one, it isn't very funny.

ME
No sir, I'll send you the funny one.

VOICE
You got my address?

ME
Yessir. I sent you the query.

VOICE
Oh, right. Ha!



King's a living entertainment legend. What a great guy and funny as hell. At least I know I can write an OK synopsis....

(sorry again, ussinners--now back to your thread)

 

[Buddy Greenfield]

I’m not taking a swipe at you Adeimantus, I’m just saying (Like ALL of us) your action could use some work.

You throw nice imagery here and there yes, but at what price?


(ING words aside.)


The room is dark… ..flowers adorn the room.
This reads rough, and because of the double use of “Room” in close proximity it can impart distraction that slows down the read and makes the action longer than it needs to be.


1st She doesn’t reply so he turns and leaves. (So he left?)
2nd As he leaves... (So he didn’t leave?)


Sancho is about to say something but thinks better of it?
How do we know he was about to say something and how do we know what he thinks better of?


Sancho enters with the painting..
Sancho props the painting…
Close proximity and you could have used a different description for the painting the 2nd time.


He yells an occasional “Ole”
This could be out of the action line.


.. at Abigail who of course hasn’t moved or opened her eyes.
Of course is right, we already know she is dead, you are just telling us what we already know and what we already know and see he is realizing.


She’s wearing black.
You already told us she is wearing black and we already know he understands now.


He looks, finally at Abigail… It finally dawns on him.
Close proximity.



He doesn’t want Sancho or Vale to see them. He turns his head away and exits the room.
You slow it down telling us what he doesn’t want (which we can’t see anyways), then show us an action that demonstrates it which would have been good enough in the 1st place.


In the far distance, about a 100 yards away.
This is double stating the action.


He can’t quite bring himself to read the word.
We know he can’t quite bring himself to read it, he was just like
“ ,,and fu… and fu..”


What is quicker and more engaging for the reader, you telling us “1 + 1+1 +1 = 4” or you letting us put two and two together when we need to?

These are all small things yes, but the small things can add up.


-Thanks-

 

[ussinners]

ussinner,

Whoa! Didn't know that 'bout Zoetrope. Ok, feel free to skip that one...

Are they doing many MOWs anymore? I've seen calls for scripts for Lifetime channel and a few others, but it's mostly a female lead in a paranormal thriller genre. I know the MOW has a completely different format than features; you have to build to a cliff-hanger scene just before each commercial break, etc.

Have you sent any queries out to WGA-signatory agents? Send out a synopsis, see if you get any nibbles... If they bite, might be a good way to get some feedback...

-C

Any free contest is cool. Because you're only wasting paper and postage. But, that script, I wish I kept a copy, it was unreadable.

I have yet to do anything. I'm just finishing this last draft, but I've never liked anything I've done as much as this. This is a female driven script, that's why I'm thinking Lifetime Movie. As a matter of fact it's two stories in one (I had to really use my head on this) A young southern bell moves to NYC after her Aunt passes away. Her father and friends think she's going to college. But in reality she's searching for her mother, whom she was told died when she was a child. So, it's mom's story (told in flashback) and the daughter's story running parallel.

Buddy: I guess they were right. You can't please everyone. I like Charles' actions much more then my own.

 

[Adeimantus]

Hey, Buddy.

No problem. I know my action descriptions need major work. I'm not giving the reader enough credit, really. And I'm more than happy to be an object lesson for everyone. I've already learned a shitload here in just the few days I've been around. I'm grateful.

 

[Buddy Greenfield]

I meant to post in your thread actually, but was reading this one. lol (Sorry)

My point is if Sinners action is lean yet efficient, it might be pound for pound "better" than yours or better than he thinks, and could make him happier. Your action on the other hand (tightened up) might tear us all a new one and make you even happier too. We all need work on the action lines.

Unrelated: What are some good short contests?

-Thanks-

 

[wheatgrinder]

+ on free short contests.. I can whop you all any-day (says the little dogie as he barks at the lion in the cage!)
sorry, but I had to play school boy for a sec,

Interestingly, on what people call scripts. I got a submittable yesterday that was a three page monologue, that was supposed to be an example of writing action and dialogue.. it was good prose, but not a sentence was film-able. I'm still trying to think of how to reply..